Paul Bell

iTrader: (9)

Again with this oil thing.

Use a decent synthetic. Use a decent filter. Perform an oil & filter change when the oil is getting dark or dirty on the stick.

And for crying out loud, NEVER use any Fram filter!

fleetmgr

^^^^this!

96capricemgr

iTrader: (1)

OK so I was wrong on the specific test but you will agree that there are tests oil companies have used to "prove" how good their oil is that bleach does well in right?

For the most part enthusiasts overstress over this stuff. Auto oil is cheap enough with small crankcase capacity that analysis ends up costing more than just changing sooner. To actually decide on an oil UOA is the ticket if you want to split hairs. BITOG is good for piece of mind if you can find someone with the same engine in similar use posting UOAs.

Now the vacuum pump I maintain at work where there is something like $900 worth of oil and a $700 filter, it makes more sense to change based on routine UOA.

WS Sick

I do like on BITOG the threads where people post up their professionally analyzed oil samples results. Very interesting matching an engine type with what you see collect in the oil. It also is good to see what the viscosity of an oil is after 3000 miles in a situation.
But on the recommended oil threads its all preference and opinions again.

96capricemgr

iTrader: (1)

On another forum there was an Amsoil salesman trying to push how great the stuff was and he REFUSED to answer me when I called him out on drastic thickening of the Amsoil on a very long OCI. It was something rediculous like 35K miles in a Caddy and during the last sample interval the oil had thickened dramatically but all he wanted to look at was the TAN which was good.

IMO Amsoils marketing works great with those who look no further than magazine ads but I think turns a lot of guys who dig a little deeper away. Many of their salesman are pretty crappy, pretending to offer discounts and pretending nothing else could ever be worthwhile.

Far as BITOG one thing I always found interesting was how a particular oil could do great UOAs in one platform and be far less than impressive in another, probably 8-10 years back when I was active there M1 5w-30 which everyone thought was best for the LT1 routinely showed high iron and heat stress but the same oil in a VW 1.8T at 15K mile interval looked great.

There are quality products that sometimes aren't a great fit for an application and there are formulation changes and there are sometimes dirt cheap options most enthusiasts would dismiss that actually perform well for the price.

Again though for automotive use it is mostly splitting hairs and more about making yourself feel good than it is actually making the engine last longer, not many car engines suffer lubrication related failures these days except under extreme neglect.

Paul Bell

iTrader: (9)

^ this

moehorsepower

iTrader: (3)

On my dads van, (I know this is not a performance motor) but just for an example, the one thing he did was change it every 3000 miles with any oil that was on sale, and granted his miles were mostly hiway, but he had 489,000 miles on the ole small block. yes it was tired as hell but wasnt even smoking...

Shownomercy

iTrader: (1)

Amsoil does have good salespeople, thats for sure. Its easy to fall for the whole sky is falling in if you don't use fancy oil routine.

I was doing amsoil in my truck for a few changes when I first got it, and then, woke up and realized that unless I was doing 10k between changes, I was draining money away. Switched to cheapo T3 and its like 50 bucks an oil change. Bonus is every three truck changes, is a free LT1 oil change.

If I particularly cared, or drove my truck overland, I would get UOA done, but so far, almost 150k and perfect oil pressure etc.

moehorsepower

iTrader: (3)

Back in the day, an Amsoil dealer told me that they change oil every 25,000 miles, that at 12,000 they would change the filter, then at 25 they changed the oil and filter, I thought that was just a little too much..

JOHNNYMO

iTrader: (1)

Are present day Frams still using jute inside to wrap the filtering element? Whats the reasons people dont use them?

Paul Bell

iTrader: (9)

Cardboard ends. Less filtering material. Crappy drain back valves.

fleetmgr

I can honestly say that after playing with cars both professionally and personally for 40 years, I have NEVER seen an engine failure that could be attributed to the oil not doing its job, assuming that the oil wasn't dead to begin with. I've seen lots of examples where the oil wasn't allowed to do its job...when it has to be removed from the engine with a spatula (yes, with a spatula), that's not an oil related failure.

And your point about oil company ads is well taken. The old Castrol ad with oil in a frying pan on the stove comes immediately to mind. That said, to the best of my knowledge after having worked in the industry, they all test them the exact same way, or they don't get the API seal.

One of the interesting things about the testing article was there weren't any oils included from custom refiners, such as LE, Schaeffer, Hydrotex etc. It was all either off the shelf (all of which are lesser products, and provably so), or were private label blended by someone else. To see this graphically, compare published technical data sheets showing ASTM testing. You might have to dig for them in the case of things like Mobil 1, but it's out there. That's what brought about my comment on Amsoil. When they formulated their Allison Transynd replacement, a comparison of the 2 data sheets was pretty startling. There was NO significant improvement in performance, and in a couple of areas there was less performance. As oils go, Transynd is pretty mediocre, and the least of the transmission fluids from LE, Hydrotex etc. easily beats it by any measure you care to use.

Another problem with the article are his comments about viscosity, which are dead wrong. Viscosity is the single most important component of ANY lubricant. Ask any reputable tribologist (vice an engineer with an idea, who's degree could be civil engineering for all we know), and you'll get the same answer. That doesn't mean that there is only one viscosity that is best, but it means that if you stray outside the acceptable range, you'll have serious issues. Don't believe me, try running an ISO 320 in your engine and watch what happens. Or go to the other extreme, and put an ISO 5 in it, and watch the fireworks. NO additive package will help the wrong viscosity.

Those are just some of the things that always get left out of the discussion.

Shownomercy

iTrader: (1)

Funny you bring up the amsoil transynd stuff, I run it in my truck but its mainly due to the unavailability of real transynd locally. That and I don't need 5 gallons of it lol

But, I could not find a negative review on its performance and went for it.

What are the truths behind the claims that small companies can't afford to have their stuff tested, IE TES295?

sweetbmxrider

iTrader: (13)

My dad has an old mobil 1 oil can and it says something similar like that. At the halfway point, change the filter and add a quart. The distance is either 12 or 24k miles.

FASTFATBOY

iTrader: (23)

Look up "Consumer Reports oil NewYork taxi test ". Real world test like it should be done.

fleetmgr

Completely true, as Allison destroyed the testing equipment required after they certified it. It's made for them by Castrol.

Shownomercy

iTrader: (1)

Castrol makes transynd, but there are a few others that make a ATF that complies with TES289 for A1000 usage.

http://www.allisontransmission.com/p...highway-fluids

Amsoil claims to meet the same specs, but, who knows.

fleetmgr

Amsoil meets the spec, but there's nothing extra there. From a performance standpoint, Transynd is a mediocre lubricant based on published test data, and the Amsoil product is a near duplicate. Several others surpass the spec in a pretty significant fashion. The one I'm most familiar with is Hydrotex, which blows it out of the water.

Shownomercy

iTrader: (1)

No doubt there are better performance minded ATF but, since my glass A1000 needs to stay in one piece, it gets near OE fluid and a light throttle

nitrous2fast

iTrader: (2)

You mean "blows it out of the oil pan!" lol