OVA1

iTrader: (12)

As many times as I've done this and I still can't remember to take a dam' picture.

On the Crankshaft Reluctor, the washer... does the washer go between the reluctor and the crank timing sprocket, or does it go between the sprocket and the balancer hub?

I checked shbox and that diagram doesn't show the washer at all... so, please... "HELP!"

Thanks... .

shbox

What washer are you talking about? There is the hub> reluctor> gear> crank. The only washer I know of goes on the crank bolt.

http://shbox.com/1/engine_front_diagram.jpg

OVA1

iTrader: (12)

I saw the same thing on the chart on your site... (Big fan, BTW) But my engine has always had a washer... . My buddy looked on his shop's system and it turns out that it goes in front of the Reluctor, which is between the reluctor and the hub.

shbox

Funny that the GM parts book or factory shop manual I have shows nothing about such a thing. IDK what it would be for. Seems it would only throw off the hub and therefore the pulley alignment.

OVA1

iTrader: (12)

I am using an ATI 'Super Damper', do you think it could ahve come as a result of that?

SS RRR

iTrader: (2)

A washer was not stock, so that may have something to do with it. It may be a spacer to keep the belt aligned. The way I would do it is the timing sprocket/recluctor/washer/spacer/hub.

HOWEVER
Another thing to consider is if the washer/spacer is even needed? Is the crank hub stock or did it come with the Super Damper? If it is a part of the Super Damper that washer/spacer could be used only for the pre '96(?) cars that did not have a reluctor for a crank trigger. Is the washer as thick as the reluctor? Using that washer could be pushing the hub out too far and misaligning the accessory belt. I would do some measuring with and without the washer/spacer to see what's up.

shbox

Yes, it could be the ATI unit comes with the washer. Like SS RRR said, it is probably the thickness of the reluctor (0.10"). This way, ATI would not have to machine two different ones for the difference in cars with or without the crank sensor. You add the washer on a non-crank sensor application.
I did not realize there might be a difference if you were not using the stock hub, but if you had mentioned it in the beginning, it could have altered the response process. It's always best to have all the pertinent information up front.

BALLSS

per footnotes in ATI catalogue re damper assembly with hub # 917268 for LT1/4 F-body

(1) dampers furnished with 916320 hub spacer for 97 & up Camaro/firebird or 96 up corvette engine reluctor wheel, discard spacer provided

(5)washer 953070 is required is required with LT1 hubs and is shipped with dampers

shbox

I'll assume the 953070 washer goes on the crank bolt (can't find a pic of it) as the 916320 is called a hub spacer. This clarifies that the OP should not be using this washer if he is still using a crank sensor reluctor.

OVA1

iTrader: (12)

Yes... and in my defense, I didn't even think about the Damper change. But you're correct... all the info up front is the best policy.

Thanks for all the input fellas... As they say in Texas: "I 'preciatcha."

SpeedJunkee

How are you all measuring the distance to verify all his is correct once the timing cover is back on and hub is installed?

I realize this is an old thread, but I recently had to take mine apart (mine is a 95 with the 24x) and noticed I did not have the required spacer. I will order it and put it between the reluctor and the hub, but is there a way to measure it to make sure it is where it is supposed to be once installed? I just don't want to go through this nightmare again by doing anything wrong.

I have the ATI Super Damper. What size bolt for the hub do I need to be using? I have a 7/16-20x 2 1/4" bolt with a 8mm washer. Can anyone verify this is the correct bolt length and washer size that is needed?

SpeedJunkee

Okay, so now I am very confused. Just spoke with EFI connections, and they say that there is no spacer needed?

BALLSS

This is the crank bolt & washer that holds the hub to crank

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ati-950231

ATI comes with a spacer that slides over crank if you have a obd1 motor. They only make one hub size so cars with reluctor (OBD2) don't need it

If you have you stock hub, measure its depth and then compare the ATI depth WITH the spacer. Should be the same length

SpeedJunkee

My motor is OBD1. This has been a long morning of figuring things out.

I don't have the stock hub. I have the ATI super damper hub. EFI connection said there was no spacer needed for their reluctor. However they also said they don't know all the aftermarket hubs and therefore cannot determine that in some instances something else may be needed.

I called ATI. They make a washer that goes in between the reluctor and the crank case cover (which I did not have), and then they make a spacer that goes between the hub and the bolt (this I do have). I ordered the washer that was missing. I now need to figure out what distance I need for the bolt.

My ARP bolt is toast. It's threads are beyond repair. I had used the ATI spacer plus a couple washers on it and it "seemed" to be aligned properly as the serpentine belt was not damaged and looked to be aligned properly. I have a new bolt that I got a while back that at the time I believed was the correct size, however it's length after spacer is just a little shorter than the length after spacer of the ARP bolt I had that I believed to be aligned properly.

Do I just measure the depth of the crank bolt threads and then the depth of the ATI hub/super damper and add them together to get the total length of bolt needed?

My reluctor was "noticeably" wobbly. Way more than .100" (which is the width of the washer ATI is sending me). Somehow I need to get that reluctor secure in place. Either the hub was not on all the way, or the missing washer was the culprit. Or possibly both.

SpeedJunkee

I guess another valid question to ask is; how far off can the hub be and not harm the belt? Is it possible my hub was not on all the way and the belt still spin without damage? The car idled for about an hour total and drove about 6 miles on the dyno reaching 80 mph. I would think if it were aligned off enough for damage to happen to the belt, it would have happened by now.

SpeedJunkee

So this was confusing to me after speaking with ATI.

The 916320 hub spacer has the depth of .1000", where as the washer 953070 is closer to 1/4" thick. From my conversation with ATI, the 953070 is actually the spacer that goes between the bolt and the hub. The 916320 is the washer that goes between the reluctor and the timing cover.

BALLSS

^^^right

I don't know if your 24x deal changes anything

for the ATI damper/hub you need the "spacer" between hub & crank IF you do not have the crank position sensor wheel. Given you have a 95 I assume you DO NOT have the CPS wheel so you use the spacer then put on hub. The hub will bottom out against spacer/crank.

You need the ATI bolt & washer to bolt the hub to the crank. The bolt & washer are specific to the ATI so you need to use their part # I noted for that

DO NOT try & pull on hub with the crank bolt. Use the proper install tool. You will very likely (read will) strip the threads of the crank if you do try and pull it on with the main hub bolt

SpeedJunkee

OKay, some math may help figure this out.

The depth of my crank bolt threads is 1.5275"
The depth of my reluctor is 0.4230"
The depth of the 916320 washer is .1000"

Assuming the hub is flush on the crank, the above depths are what should be what is needed to find the bolt length.

The total adds up to 2.0505"

My ARP bolt with the washers it had and the spacer has a remaining bolt length of 2.05". Granted these are done as best as I could but probably not absolutely 100% accurate. But, this would be pretty coincidental that the lengths add up to be the exact same. I think my existing bolt was precise (too bad I can't find another one).

The other bolt I have with the spacer for usable distance of the bolt is 1.95" (the difference of the washer of .1000").

How precise does this need to be? I guess would this matter so much if the threads on the bolt didn't go that last .1000" in? Theroetically, the hub still should stop when bottomed out, and it should still be the washer against the reluctor to keep its appropriate position correct?

SpeedJunkee

What is the ATI part number of the ATI bolt needed? Also, I did use the crank bolt to tighten down the hub last time. This is probably what you said did in my bolt and the thread of my crank. I tapped the threads on the crank so they are whole again. What tool should I be using to put the hub on?

BALLSS

my post #13 has the link to the bolt from Summit. It comes with the washer

There are various forms of hub remove/install tools, some home made involving grade 8 threaded steel rod, stack of washers and a thrust bearing. A search should bring up a few how to's on it

I have the Kent Moore tool that GM uses. Plug & play but they are very hard to find and not cheap. The ATI hub is different than stock so some improvising with a large washer for the hub to install but no big deal

Your local auto part store should have a generic puller/install tool in their loan a tool program that should work

Never ever pull the hub on with bolt or beat it on with a hammer. Use a hub install tool