Installing crankshaft seal
That's like saying the correct way to do spark plugs is to remove the engine. It may give you easier access, but it'll take six times longer. I am not sure where it is stated the correct way is to remove the front cover, but it is ridiculous. There is enough room with the smaller barb on the seal puller to yank the seal. If not, use a screwdriver, and using thread locker on seals? C'mon already.
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From: Kernersville, NC
I know he is not dealing with the opti seal, but there was no way in heck it was coming out without the cover off on my LT1. That's the one I doubled over the seal puller on. That sucker was stuck in the cover good.
It would make sense to pry the front crank seal out with a screwdriver if the cover has spots for outer seal access like the rear main. It's been so long I can't remember if it does....the main thing is not to go scratching or nicking the crank which ever way one does remove it.
It would make sense to pry the front crank seal out with a screwdriver if the cover has spots for outer seal access like the rear main. It's been so long I can't remember if it does....the main thing is not to go scratching or nicking the crank which ever way one does remove it.
That's cause somebody probably installed it with Loctite. The OEM seal is rubber coated and comes out easy, the Felpro seal not so easy.
That's like saying the correct way to do spark plugs is to remove the engine. It may give you easier access, but it'll take six times longer. I am not sure where it is stated the correct way is to remove the front cover, but it is ridiculous. There is enough room with the smaller barb on the seal puller to yank the seal. If not, use a screwdriver, and using thread locker on seals? C'mon already.
And yes- Threadlocker on the outside diameter of the seal where it mates to the cover. It helps it slide in while it's wet and KEEPS it there once it's dry.
What I was getting at was making sure the seal is centered. Different seals may be off-center a little bit. You install the new seal without breaking the cover loose, it will PROBABLY work... But you're supposed to align the front cover off of the seal before you torque it down (at least unless you have the kent moore tool)
And yes- Threadlocker on the outside diameter of the seal where it mates to the cover. It helps it slide in while it's wet and KEEPS it there once it's dry.
roninsonic,
Please let me know if I am understanding your statements regarding aligning the timing cover prior to tightening it to the block? I have a few questions.
Thank you
Sorry, been busy.
and yes, that's what I'm saying, is to allow the seal's mating with the crank dictate the EXACT position of the cover. There's enough slop for it to move. Doing it that way pretty much guarantees that it'll be dead-nuts on.
I actually put bolts in loosely and fully install the balancer, THEN tighten the cover.
But like I said, I'm **** retentive and I hate working on things that involve harmonic balancer removal, so I try to avoid rework.
and yes, that's what I'm saying, is to allow the seal's mating with the crank dictate the EXACT position of the cover. There's enough slop for it to move. Doing it that way pretty much guarantees that it'll be dead-nuts on.
I actually put bolts in loosely and fully install the balancer, THEN tighten the cover.
But like I said, I'm **** retentive and I hate working on things that involve harmonic balancer removal, so I try to avoid rework.
What am I supposed to do with the dowels on the block, then? Am I supposed to pull them out and elongate the bolt holes in order to get a perfect alignment? Actually, more like enlarge the bolt holes because we also have to take into consideration aligning the opti and w/p seals too, yes?
And, I take it you've had trouble with seals popping off therefore the need for loc-tite?
And, I take it you've had trouble with seals popping off therefore the need for loc-tite?
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From: Little Rock, AR
So, if you allow the crank seal to dictate the alignment of the cover, what about the other two seals? There is virtually no way to simultaneously align all seals if even one of them is off center. Honestly, I have never has any kind of issue as long as any of the seals is installed properly in it's home on the cover (in any gm engine). Never had a seal walk out, either. So the Loctite seems a bit overkill (plus a possible added risk of damage to the cover trying to remove a seal). The outer portion of the seal is usually already has a coating that helps it slide in, conform and seal to the hole in the cover. It's ok if you want to do it the way you do, but just seems unnecessary.
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Roninsonic...
I would argue, as would shobox & SSS RR, that your comments about centering the TC to block based on how the crank seal aligns with the crank is not the norm
I have replaced several TC seals on LT1 and other SBC & Ford. Removing the TC to do so was never done. Only exception was when I was building the LT1 I put TC seals in first and then installed the TC. I have the Kent Moore tool for the WP drive seal to do so. and it is easier to install the seals on a TC on the bench. It is a insane amount of work to pull a TC from a installed motor
I have not experienced pulling a seal someone used some form of loc tite on and don't know WTF one would do so. FelPro, and other, seals come with a coating on the outer edge to assist in sealing
On FelPro seals the color of this outer coating is red so some could confuse that with loc-tite but it isn't
If you bent/broke a seal puller trying to get a seal off you may have had the claw catching the TC itself vs just the seal. Good the tool broke as often the TC is what breaks when that happens and excessive force is used.
Once you have the seal started by hand, simple taps with soft blow hammer around the edge starting with the "high" side of the seal in a circular motion until the seal is flush with cover. Seal drive sockets can also be used.
Not saying installing the TC seals on cover first is wrong, just not necessary especially on a motor in the car or even assembled but on stand. The dowels on the block line up TC...and the seals land where the holes are in the TC....at least from my POV :-)
I would argue, as would shobox & SSS RR, that your comments about centering the TC to block based on how the crank seal aligns with the crank is not the norm
I have replaced several TC seals on LT1 and other SBC & Ford. Removing the TC to do so was never done. Only exception was when I was building the LT1 I put TC seals in first and then installed the TC. I have the Kent Moore tool for the WP drive seal to do so. and it is easier to install the seals on a TC on the bench. It is a insane amount of work to pull a TC from a installed motor
I have not experienced pulling a seal someone used some form of loc tite on and don't know WTF one would do so. FelPro, and other, seals come with a coating on the outer edge to assist in sealing
On FelPro seals the color of this outer coating is red so some could confuse that with loc-tite but it isn't
If you bent/broke a seal puller trying to get a seal off you may have had the claw catching the TC itself vs just the seal. Good the tool broke as often the TC is what breaks when that happens and excessive force is used.
Once you have the seal started by hand, simple taps with soft blow hammer around the edge starting with the "high" side of the seal in a circular motion until the seal is flush with cover. Seal drive sockets can also be used.
Not saying installing the TC seals on cover first is wrong, just not necessary especially on a motor in the car or even assembled but on stand. The dowels on the block line up TC...and the seals land where the holes are in the TC....at least from my POV :-)
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Joined: Dec 2008
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From: Little Rock, AR
I just realized I’m in the LT section. Oops. My bad.
As far as what I posted above about locktite- on the OD of a seal- It’s more of a take-home from work than anything else. I work at a ship refitting facility, and pretty much every caged or two-part seal we install gets a similar treatment. Seals Have a tendency to partial walkout or weep past the outside ‘seal’, especially metal-caged ones like our front main seals. RTV is a no-go anywhere near an oil galley, and locktite fits the bill nicely. As far as problems removing the seal later- a press or a slide hammer with a bronze bushing works great.
What I was discussing above is the way that I install an LS seal and timing cover. It may not be in the service manual or a widely-utilized practice, but it’s just smart wrenching. Take a few seals and start measuring hole centerline vs overall centerline. You’ll find quite a lot (on the order of 15-20 thousands) between just two or three… They’re not exactly manufactured to exacting tolerances, and the cover itself has enough slop to move around a fair amount. With the cover bolts loose, the seal will self-center on the crank, the cover with it. Just removing the seal and slapping a new one in risks having the new one’s ID centerline being 15-20 thousandths off center, which is going to lead to a leaky front main after that lip seal gets fucked up.
SS RRR- Exactly who **** in your cheerios? I mean, I didn’t check what section I was in, and that’s my bad… But seriously, dude? Why be such an *******?
As far as what I posted above about locktite- on the OD of a seal- It’s more of a take-home from work than anything else. I work at a ship refitting facility, and pretty much every caged or two-part seal we install gets a similar treatment. Seals Have a tendency to partial walkout or weep past the outside ‘seal’, especially metal-caged ones like our front main seals. RTV is a no-go anywhere near an oil galley, and locktite fits the bill nicely. As far as problems removing the seal later- a press or a slide hammer with a bronze bushing works great.
What I was discussing above is the way that I install an LS seal and timing cover. It may not be in the service manual or a widely-utilized practice, but it’s just smart wrenching. Take a few seals and start measuring hole centerline vs overall centerline. You’ll find quite a lot (on the order of 15-20 thousands) between just two or three… They’re not exactly manufactured to exacting tolerances, and the cover itself has enough slop to move around a fair amount. With the cover bolts loose, the seal will self-center on the crank, the cover with it. Just removing the seal and slapping a new one in risks having the new one’s ID centerline being 15-20 thousandths off center, which is going to lead to a leaky front main after that lip seal gets fucked up.
SS RRR- Exactly who **** in your cheerios? I mean, I didn’t check what section I was in, and that’s my bad… But seriously, dude? Why be such an *******?
Probably has to do with the fact that my built **** can't out run a cam only LS1. Look at it this way, we both learned something. I had no idea you had to adjust a timing cover on a LS1. That's just dumb. You learned you should observe which forum you are in before replying several times? 