Building a 355, imput wanted
11-12-2015, 10:42 AM
#21
Actually I can think of a AI ported LT1 head 355 that made like 499rwhp but that isn't anywhere near 500.
Dynos and size are most important when trying to compensate for something but not so much when trying to go fast.
My 4200lbs car that cuts 1.5s on slicks breaks the UHP street tires loose at 45mph, not sure how it could use more torque.
Dynos and size are most important when trying to compensate for something but not so much when trying to go fast.
My 4200lbs car that cuts 1.5s on slicks breaks the UHP street tires loose at 45mph, not sure how it could use more torque.
11-12-2015, 11:09 AM
#22
TECH Regular
The "too much torque" argument gets old, the 650lb/ft offered by the LT4 or Hellcat from the factory seems to get those cars down the road just fine! Just put on slicks and run 10's from the show room floor 
! A piddly 400+ RWTQ LT1 seems pretty tame in comparison
! A piddly 400+ RWTQ LT1 seems pretty tame in comparison My position earlier in this thread stemmed from the OP's stated goals, which were ~450rwhp that wasn't too hard to maintain. To achieve a solid, repeatable and consistent 450rwhp with a 355, you may have to do several things that are not necessary when shooting for a number 25 or 30 less than that, like perhaps a SR cam and aftermarket ECU and heavier-duty valvetrain. You can achieve that number with a well-built 383 easily without having to take any of the aforementioned steps so it may be the more cost effective way to arrive at that number. A crank and the associated machine work is likely cheaper, more street friendly and easier to maintain than a high-revving SR 355 setup with aftermarket ECU.
Don't get me wrong though. It takes a very well thought out and put together combo to crack 450 with a street-oriented 383 with stock casting intake, ECU and HR cam. Parts selection and attention to detail are critical.
Last edited by HellTeeOne; 11-12-2015 at 11:16 AM.
11-12-2015, 11:58 AM
#24
It's true.
What's it like driving a N/A 500 RWHP LT-1 6-speed 1996 Camaro SS? - YouTube
I don't think anyone was saying anything had "too much" torque, I think that he was trying to infer that a properly set up 355 is hardly lacking in torque output relative to a 383 based upon cubes alone, and often the difference can be easily made up with proper parts selection and tuning. That is definitely true, as most 383s LT1s I've seen out there (not the ones on the internet) are no more powerful than my stock shortblock setup and often they are inferior in terms of output. I can't count the number of 383 LT1s I've seen out on the actual streets that make in the neighborhood of 375rwhp; it's certainly a lot more than I've seen making the 430+ numbers all of us on here view as decent for a stroker.
My position earlier in this thread stemmed from the OP's stated goals, which were ~450rwhp that wasn't too hard to maintain. To achieve a solid, repeatable and consistent 450rwhp with a 355, you may have to do several things that are not necessary when shooting for a number 25 or 30 less than that, like perhaps a SR cam and aftermarket ECU and heavier-duty valvetrain. You can achieve that number with a well-built 383 easily without having to take any of the aforementioned steps so it may be the more cost effective way to arrive at that number. A crank and the associated machine work is likely cheaper, more street friendly and easier to maintain than a high-revving SR 355 setup with aftermarket ECU.
Don't get me wrong though. It takes a very well thought out and put together combo to crack 450 with a street-oriented 383 with stock casting intake, ECU and HR cam. Parts selection and attention to detail are critical.
What's it like driving a N/A 500 RWHP LT-1 6-speed 1996 Camaro SS? - YouTube
I don't think anyone was saying anything had "too much" torque, I think that he was trying to infer that a properly set up 355 is hardly lacking in torque output relative to a 383 based upon cubes alone, and often the difference can be easily made up with proper parts selection and tuning. That is definitely true, as most 383s LT1s I've seen out there (not the ones on the internet) are no more powerful than my stock shortblock setup and often they are inferior in terms of output. I can't count the number of 383 LT1s I've seen out on the actual streets that make in the neighborhood of 375rwhp; it's certainly a lot more than I've seen making the 430+ numbers all of us on here view as decent for a stroker.
My position earlier in this thread stemmed from the OP's stated goals, which were ~450rwhp that wasn't too hard to maintain. To achieve a solid, repeatable and consistent 450rwhp with a 355, you may have to do several things that are not necessary when shooting for a number 25 or 30 less than that, like perhaps a SR cam and aftermarket ECU and heavier-duty valvetrain. You can achieve that number with a well-built 383 easily without having to take any of the aforementioned steps so it may be the more cost effective way to arrive at that number. A crank and the associated machine work is likely cheaper, more street friendly and easier to maintain than a high-revving SR 355 setup with aftermarket ECU.
Don't get me wrong though. It takes a very well thought out and put together combo to crack 450 with a street-oriented 383 with stock casting intake, ECU and HR cam. Parts selection and attention to detail are critical.
11-12-2015, 12:07 PM
#25
Who said anything about too much torque? I said I don't know how I could use more on the street which is where people are claiming stroker torque rules. Strokers have their place and if buying a crank I would likely go that way but it is a bandwagon jumped on too quickly and wildly over hyped.
Far as the near 500rwhp 355 it was AlekSS or something like that, he since did a turbo build. AI might have links, not going looking from my phone. Ran mid or maybe low 10s with a T56.
Far as the near 500rwhp 355 it was AlekSS or something like that, he since did a turbo build. AI might have links, not going looking from my phone. Ran mid or maybe low 10s with a T56.
11-12-2015, 12:51 PM
#26
Who said anything about too much torque? I said I don't know how I could use more on the street which is where people are claiming stroker torque rules. Strokers have their place and if buying a crank I would likely go that way but it is a bandwagon jumped on too quickly and wildly over hyped.
Far as the near 500rwhp 355 it was AlekSS or something like that, he since did a turbo build. AI might have links, not going looking from my phone. Ran mid or maybe low 10s with a T56.
Far as the near 500rwhp 355 it was AlekSS or something like that, he since did a turbo build. AI might have links, not going looking from my phone. Ran mid or maybe low 10s with a T56.
I guess the 355 didn't make enough TQ for him to go turbo! 
He had to step things up a notch or two!
11-12-2015, 12:59 PM
#27
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I have some time before I dive into the build. I have to tear apart my old block to see how it looks, that will certainly determine if I'm buying a crank or not. I've been doing more reading, and more reading. My goals are easily obtained when done "right" so now I need to set out a budget frankly, and go from there. Then add more money onto, because it never stops there lmao.
So if the crank looks good, a stock crank forged 355 will do. If not a 383 and maybe TFS heads or something similar will do. It needs a lot more work to handle that power, cam only I'm sideways in 2nd as is.
So if the crank looks good, a stock crank forged 355 will do. If not a 383 and maybe TFS heads or something similar will do. It needs a lot more work to handle that power, cam only I'm sideways in 2nd as is.
11-12-2015, 01:14 PM
#29
I have some time before I dive into the build. I have to tear apart my old block to see how it looks, that will certainly determine if I'm buying a crank or not. I've been doing more reading, and more reading. My goals are easily obtained when done "right" so now I need to set out a budget frankly, and go from there. Then add more money onto, because it never stops there lmao.
So if the crank looks good, a stock crank forged 355 will do. If not a 383 and maybe TFS heads or something similar will do. It needs a lot more work to handle that power, cam only I'm sideways in 2nd as is.
So if the crank looks good, a stock crank forged 355 will do. If not a 383 and maybe TFS heads or something similar will do. It needs a lot more work to handle that power, cam only I'm sideways in 2nd as is.
Or spend a wad on some Michelin PS2s, those are about as good as it gets for street tires.
11-12-2015, 02:45 PM
#30
The only issue I see with a SR 355 build is cost and longevity. When you factor in the price of 24x, cam, shaft mount rockers, springs, retainers, crank reconditioning, etc. you will realize there isn't that much of a price gap . The extra money spent on building the SR 355 w/stock crank could easily cover the cost of a forged stroker crank. It would be 1000x nicer to drive on the street and the valvetrain would need much less attention, all while making the same power.
I could see a 355 being a viable option if you could source a 4-bolt vette block as a foundation for the build with stock crank, long rods, and short/light pistons (none of that heavy speed pro ****). OBD2 pcm with a cam that peaks around 6700 and the supporting valvetrain for a budget build. Any more than that and you'd be better off going all the way with a stroker.
I could see a 355 being a viable option if you could source a 4-bolt vette block as a foundation for the build with stock crank, long rods, and short/light pistons (none of that heavy speed pro ****). OBD2 pcm with a cam that peaks around 6700 and the supporting valvetrain for a budget build. Any more than that and you'd be better off going all the way with a stroker.
11-13-2015, 06:36 AM
#31
All this solid roller, shaft rockers, 4-bolt main stuff is not required to crack 450 rwhp SAE in a 350/355. My setup will do about that in front of an M6. Power peak is at 6400, nothing exotic required.
Pick a cam to peak a couple hundred rpm higher, and you'll be past 450.
Pick a cam to peak a couple hundred rpm higher, and you'll be past 450.
11-13-2015, 09:26 AM
#32
TECH Regular
All this solid roller, shaft rockers, 4-bolt main stuff is not required to crack 450 rwhp SAE in a 350/355. My setup will do about that in front of an M6. Power peak is at 6400, nothing exotic required.
Pick a cam to peak a couple hundred rpm higher, and you'll be past 450.
Pick a cam to peak a couple hundred rpm higher, and you'll be past 450.
However out of the literally dozens of setups I've seen like this, yours seems to be among the very strongest I've seen. Mine for example runs the exact same heads, and I think my cam is almost or exactly the same as yours, but mine peaks at around 405-410rwhp through an M6, which is quite a ways from 450. Now I run a full factory-style catback with a somewhat restrictive Y pipe, but it's hard for me to believe that just changing my exhaust would be worth 40rwhp.
Maybe the fact that your shortblock was freshened up accounts for some of the difference, but I sort of doubt that.
I'll be switching my exhaust out soon for something better, and I'll be quite happy if I see 420.
So yea, I'll say it's possible to attain 450 with one of these HR-cammed 350/355 setups like you and I are running. However, even most of the ones who are using the right parts, proper assembly, and excellent tuning are in the 400-430 range. To attain that last 30-40 numbers usually requires going significantly more aggressive on at least a couple critical elements of the combo.
11-13-2015, 09:34 AM
#33
I don't know about your exhaust in particular, but yes the street exhaust on mine cuts my power by 30-40 hp. Trap speed drop by 3+ mph on a 3800+lb vehicle seems to indicate that. Admittedly, I've not built the perfect free-flowing exhaust for it, but it's not terrible either - dual 2.5", mandrel bends, x-pipe, large (50-series?) FM mufflers.
11-13-2015, 09:36 AM
#34
its really not rocket science at this HP level your trying to attain, don't need fancy stuff, as for the engine if your buying a crankshaft and heads build a 383, a compstar crank, compstar rods and a nice off the shelf wiseco or equivalent and you'll be in business, if the heads are done right and the cam is done right and you have someone tune it that is experienced you easily attain your goal without any fancy high dollar parts. No need to spin it that high for that HP goal at all. As for guys like bowtienut (hey Pat!!) there's a big difference between slapping parts on an engine and detailing and tuning a setup to work properly and efficiently.....Pats is just this, a well setup system..........also as for dyno numbers, we don't race dyno's we race timeslips...
11-13-2015, 09:41 AM
#35
TECH Regular
I don't know about your exhaust in particular, but yes the street exhaust on mine cuts my power by 30-40 hp. Trap speed drop by 3+ mph on a 3800+lb vehicle seems to indicate that. Admittedly, I've not built the perfect free-flowing exhaust for it, but it's not terrible either - dual 2.5", mandrel bends, x-pipe, large (50-series?) FM mufflers.
11-13-2015, 10:27 AM
#36
I think all of this really just boils down to an ls1 swap
Callies stopped making the 3.75" compstar crank for 1 piece rms 
its really not rocket science at this HP level your trying to attain, don't need fancy stuff, as for the engine if your buying a crankshaft and heads build a 383, a compstar crank, compstar rods and a nice off the shelf wiseco or equivalent and you'll be in business, if the heads are done right and the cam is done right and you have someone tune it that is experienced you easily attain your goal without any fancy high dollar parts. No need to spin it that high for that HP goal at all. As for guys like bowtienut (hey Pat!!) there's a big difference between slapping parts on an engine and detailing and tuning a setup to work properly and efficiently.....Pats is just this, a well setup system..........also as for dyno numbers, we don't race dyno's we race timeslips...
11-13-2015, 10:33 AM
#37
here ya go!!!
http://www.jegs.com/i/Moroso/710/383...LFgaAg4S8P8HAQ
11-13-2015, 12:51 PM
#38
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^ that is one of the coolest things I've seen in a while car parts wise, never knew about it. I will most likely end up with a 383, looking at the bottom end I have on the stand now it needs some love.
11-14-2015, 08:51 AM
#40
As far as the 355 vs 383 argument I say go with the bigger cubes if you have the money to do it properly with the right parts to feed those extra cubes. If you can't afford the 383 stick a little extra money in the 355 and it will preform better than a poorly put together 383.