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Not very happy with the Peak Hp Numbers considering the mods and only 51k on the motor, but I am very satisfied with Peak TRQ. I cant wait to see how it changes after the new Heads and Cam along with Tune.
276 hp at the tires isn't bad, considering the only power mod you have is the LT headers. That torque number is bogus; that's converter flash.
Originally Posted by hrcslam
Agreed about the torque. Mustang Dyno? Auto? SAE?
Mustang Dyno, We pulled more then once and the numbers kept being Consistent. I wonder if they had a file for the car that had some bad numbers. Ill mention it on Tuesday. Heres a Graph Pic
Well, it's not converter flash, but that's still an erroneous torque calculation from the dyno.
Aftermarket MAF adds no power, "airbox mod" maybe a bit, 58 TB even less on a stock h/c engine.
Well, it's not converter flash, but that's still an erroneous torque calculation from the dyno.
Aftermarket MAF adds no power, "airbox mod" maybe a bit, 58 TB even less on a stock h/c engine.
I agree, I was just stating whats been added since previous mods. Got rid of the Full Spool also. Added a Detroit Trutrac for easier street driving. I added a ton of BMR stuff as well. I have no idea what might have been done to the motor by the previous owner. I got this car back in the beginning of 2008. I suspect that there may have been NOS run through it so Im not sure if it has a built bottom but even if it did, I would expect the WHP numbers to be a bit higher. I have no way of verifying any of this. I'm kind of shooting in the dark on everything. The car sat in storage for the better part of five years after I ended up with her. Im jumping back and forth between this forum and Updating my Sponsorship/Advertisement Proposal for my other car. Im planning on running in some NASA Races along with Sandhills Open Road Challenge with my Race Car this season.
The only way that torque matches that horsepower is if they did a 1500-2900 rpm dyno pull. Is that what happened?
Auto? What gears are you running? Tire size? If you give me that info, I can tell you your real torque curve based on your hp (or the HP based on that TQ curve- 500ft/lbs at 5800rpm is 552hp).
But, that's a Mustang dyno. They measure actual torque then calculate HP. I'd take it back to and tell them to fix it, so you have a real base line dyno to compare from.
SAE corrected rwhp at 275 is about right for your mods (Auto right?) on a Mustang dyno, if not a bit strong. So I'd say the HP is right, but the tq is off.
The only way that torque matches that horsepower is if they did a 1500-2900 rpm dyno pull. Is that what happened?
Auto? What gears are you running? Tire size? If you give me that info, I can tell you your real torque curve based on your hp (or the HP based on that TQ curve- 500ft/lbs at 5800rpm is 552hp).
But, that's a Mustang dyno. They measure actual torque then calculate HP. I'd take it back to and tell them to fix it, so you have a real base line dyno to compare from.
SAE corrected rwhp at 275 is about right for your mods (Auto right?) on a Mustang dyno, if not a bit strong. So I'd say the HP is right, but the tq is off.
Ill get the info and post it Monday, I cant think of tire size of the top of my head right now. Im snowboarding with the family today. Its a T-56, 4.10's mod list is in my sig, We completed a series of 4th gear pulls from 40MPH to 5500RPM around 90MPH
Originally Posted by ******
on any dyno charts I see.....HP/TQ is scaled on the vertical side and RPM along the bottom
this has MPH on bottom..
so when it made what HP & TQ at what RPM is???
Ill have to check what the RPM was at the start of the run, but we pulled all the way up to around 5500RPM's
Originally Posted by ******
yeah one could do the math with other 411....but the TQ is a dyno fart (shift flash, TC)
I just find it odd on how the fing graph is set up....maybe some oddball fing rice dyno shop dyno puking out ego #'s for the rice burners running NOS
Not a Dyno Shop, only one person operates this Dyno and it is typically used for teaching. A couple of months ago a truck was pulling on this same dyno and the dyno sheet was comparable to a shop the owner had taken his truck to previously. I know its comparing Apples to Oranges. Im just curious why my TRQ Reading was so Outrageous.
Ill get the info and post it Monday, I cant think of tire size of the top of my head right now. Im snowboarding with the family today. Its a T-56, 4.10's mod list is in my sig, We completed a series of 4th gear pulls from 40MPH to 5500RPM around 90MPH
Ill have to check what the RPM was at the start of the run, but we pulled all the way up to around 5500RPM's.
Not a Dyno Shop, only one person operates this Dyno and it is typically used for teaching. A couple of months ago a truck was pulling on this same dyno and the dyno sheet was comparable to a shop the owner had taken his truck to previously. I know its comparing Apples to Oranges. Im just curious why my TRQ Reading was so Outrageous.
Ty McBride
McBride Motorsports
Unless you're running 23 inch tires(245/30r17), your mph is way off.
For comparison sake, my 275/35r18 are 25.6". At 5500 rpm in 4th (also t56), I'd be at 102mph with 4.10's.
Also, given the rpm you stopped the pull at, your hp and tq should be crossed (HP always equals TQ at 5252 RPMs). This tells me your graph was scaled differently between the two. And the tq was scaled wrong (or in a different measurement like nM or something).
Based on your HP curve your TQ curve would look like this. .
If I try to duplicate the HP curve by replicating the TQ curve with more appropriate numbers it looks like this.
And if I replace RPM with MPH, it would look like this.
Not sure what happened with the numbers he printed out for you, it shows ft-lb on the graph you posted. And even if I convert that to nM it's not close.
These are of course guestimations and don't have near the resolution as the dyno graph does (sorry I'm not going to go that in depth with it). But they should give you an idea on what the chart should look like.
Unless you're running 23 inch tires(245/30r17), your mph is way off.
For comparison sake, my 275/35r18 are 25.6". At 5500 rpm in 4th (also t56), I'd be at 102mph with 4.10's.
Also, given the rpm you stopped the pull at, your hp and tq should be crossed (HP always equals TQ at 5252 RPMs). This tells me your graph was scaled differently between the two. And the tq was scaled wrong (or in a different measurement like nM or something).
Based on your HP curve your TQ curve would look like this. .
If I try to duplicate the HP curve by replicating the TQ curve with more appropriate numbers it looks like this.
And if I replace RPM with MPH, it would look like this.
Not sure what happened with the numbers he printed out for you, it shows ft-lb on the graph you posted. And even if I convert that to nM it's not close.
These are of course guestimations and don't have near the resolution as the dyno graph does (sorry I'm not going to go that in depth with it). But they should give you an idea on what the chart should look like.
I understand the rule of 5252 and I appreciate you sharing your knowledge with me. Ill get you the information you requested. I am Currently attending Lincoln Tech Denver. They had a Scholarship day so we ran my car as a kind of a event for all the people in attendance. It wasn't really about the numbers for the crowd just showing them the capabilities of the school. Unfortunately my Instructor had to go to the Super flow Engine Dyno room right after the run and the print out was done by someone else. I never had a chance to talk to my instructor about the numbers with everything that was going on. But I sent him an email and he said the data is all saved so hes going to review it. Im going to make sure everything is squared away after the head and cam because I want as close to accurate numbers as possible. Again im not wondering if maybe the base file for the Trans Am he loaded into the system had a bad number someplace. Again I appreciate all your help and knowledge.
The 275rwhp number could be accurate as you are untuned, with a tune it would be near 300 maybe if its healthy. You should have taken it to 6000rpm at least since your HP had not started dropping at 5500. HP = tq * rpm/5250, and any dyno operator worth their salt knows HP = tq at 5250, but it sounds like your guy was in a hurry and with it scaled in mph, he probably didn't catch that it was wrong. With gear and tire size, like hrcslam said, we could rescale the graph in rpm.
Not a Dyno Shop, only one person operates this Dyno and it is typically used for teaching.
Im just curious why my TRQ Reading was so Outrageous.
Ty McBride
McBride Motorsports
Well Ty, from this side of the internet we can only comment on what we see and your description.
You will have to discuss with the teacher why he sets up the graph the way he did and how he can explain the unusually high TQ representation on the graph
Hopefully he can use and teach using a dyno procedure more inline with what you see in the real world.
There well may be some explanation on why it is set up and graphed the way it is so hopefully the teacher who did the pull can explain to you why....and you can convey that in this thread
275 REAR WHP on a stock motor with just long tubes and 58 TB (that likely doing nothing) is decent considering the stock motor made 270 FWHP new. The TQ # is in no way accurate
You say you are uncertain what the PO may have done internally to the motor so without that 411 it is hard for you or us to accurately comment on what kind of power it makes. Especially with the dyno graph representation you have
Well Ty, from this side of the internet we can only comment on what we see and your description.
You will have to discuss with the teacher why he sets up the graph the way he did and how he can explain the unusually high TQ representation on the graph
Hopefully he can use and teach using a dyno procedure more inline with what you see in the real world.
There well may be some explanation on why it is set up and graphed the way it is so hopefully the teacher who did the pull can explain to you why....and you can convey that in this thread
275 REAR WHP on a stock motor with just long tubes and 58 TB (that likely doing nothing) is decent considering the stock motor made 270 FWHP new. The TQ # is in no way accurate
You say you are uncertain what the PO may have done internally to the motor so without that 411 it is hard for you or us to accurately comment on what kind of power it makes. Especially with the dyno graph representation you have
I understand completely, The Instructor is really intelligent and knows his stuff. So Im confident he'll either be able to explain it or palm strike his forehead and say "****" Here is some updated info on the car
-Tires: 275/40ZR17
-Rims: Corvette ZO6
-Airbox Mod
-K&N drop in air filter
-TPIS Air Foil
-Granatelli MAF
-58mm BBK Throttle Body
-IM Ported to 58MM
-Pace Setter Long Tube Cermaic Coated Race Headers and Off Road Y-Pipe
-Taylor Wires
-MSD Coil
-MSD Opti Cap and Rotor
-SLP 2OTL Resonator dumped before axle
-EGR and AIR Pump Delete
-Walbro 255lph in tank fuel pump
-Lowering springs (I think BMR, on the car when I got it)
-Bilstein shocks
-Denny's Nitrous Ready Driveshaft
-Moser 12 bolt rear end with larger 33 spline axles
-Detroit Trutrac upgraded performance cover with main cap studs
-4.10 gears, and a 1350 yoke.
-T56 with Centerforce Clutch
-Aluminum Flywheel
Hope this helps, I have a few plans for this car, mainly Heads and Cam and a 24X system to start off with. If all things go good new Heads and Cam will be in the next few months along with a mail order tune. Thanks you for being professional guys and helping me try to figure this out. I appreciate it!
Ty McBride
McBride Motorsports
EDIT: For the Comp T/A Purists out there I apologize. When I purchased the car it had a Clean title when I went to re-title it I discovered that the tittle was clean in the state I bought the car but it had a salvage title out of Indiana two owners back or something like that. So no point in keeping it stock. Thank you
A couple of thoughts, and some were already discussed. I have seen actual negative gains with aftermarket MAF's, I recommend getting rid of it. My Lt car with a 52mm, CAI, and running through an auto only made mid 230's on a Mustang dyne, still running through stock exhaust. The car only had maybe 3000 miles on it at the time. I'm not sure why they did the graph based on MPH? Did they not have an RPM sensor hooked to a plug wire and just run off the dyno roll speed? I remember running a quarter mile on our dyno and the car only ran a 13.80.... I thought it has to be quicker. So I went to the track and it ran a 13.81. These cars are slugs stock.
Good luck with yours, but on Mustang it's making decent power.
on the list of mods you note, I would get rid of the Granatelli MAF. Unless you had it tuned for that MAF ON a dyno (read not mail order) it is not going to work well with the stock PCM tune. Most tuners would ask you also get rid of it and use a stock, with screen, F-Body MAF
If your car has not been tuned for it...than it will cause problems. With a tune for it...no real gain in terms of performance
you have a 255 fuel pump. Typically those are used on H/C builds with larger injectors. By itself no problem running one stock or built motor.
are your FI the stock 24 lb ones?
so further checks in PO reveals it had a salvage title at some point. This happens typically because of accident damage more than value of car so it is "totaled" and sent to salvage or from flood damage. Not saying your car was not repairable or wasn't repaired properly if it was in a accident. These cars are 20+ years old now and many had "hard" lives be it the way they were driven and or maintained or accident(s)
Ideally you want a dyno graph not only to show RPM on the bottom scale but you also want one showing AF (air/fuel) ratio. That helps enormously in tuning
A couple of thoughts, and some were already discussed. I have seen actual negative gains with aftermarket MAF's, I recommend getting rid of it. My Lt car with a 52mm, CAI, and running through an auto only made mid 230's on a Mustang dyne, still running through stock exhaust. The car only had maybe 3000 miles on it at the time. I'm not sure why they did the graph based on MPH? Did they not have an RPM sensor hooked to a plug wire and just run off the dyno roll speed? I remember running a quarter mile on our dyno and the car only ran a 13.80.... I thought it has to be quicker. So I went to the track and it ran a 13.81. These cars are slugs stock.
Good luck with yours, but on Mustang it's making decent power.
I have read that after the fact. I haven't had any issues, my stock MAF wire got damaged in the garage and I bought this one from a member because he gave me an awesome deal. Ill look into finding a stock MAF. Thank you for your input and advice. I value any and all info especially from a member and vendor.
Ty McBride
McBride Motorsports
PS as posted below I haven't decided on if im staying NA or FI. I really love the sound of a SC.....soooooooo...I dunno
Originally Posted by ******
Ty
on the list of mods you note, I would get rid of the Granatelli MAF. Unless you had it tuned for that MAF ON a dyno (read not mail order) it is not going to work well with the stock PCM tune. Most tuners would ask you also get rid of it and use a stock, with screen, F-Body MAF
If your car has not been tuned for it...than it will cause problems. With a tune for it...no real gain in terms of performance
you have a 255 fuel pump. Typically those are used on H/C builds with larger injectors. By itself no problem running one stock or built motor.
are your FI the stock 24 lb ones?
so further checks in PO reveals it had a salvage title at some point. This happens typically because of accident damage more than value of car so it is "totaled" and sent to salvage or from flood damage. Not saying your car was not repairable or wasn't repaired properly if it was in a accident. These cars are 20+ years old now and many had "hard" lives be it the way they were driven and or maintained or accident(s)
Ideally you want a dyno graph not only to show RPM on the bottom scale but you also want one showing AF (air/fuel) ratio. That helps enormously in tuning
You know, I had the Fuel Rail out this summer and I never thought to see if they are the stock 24lb injectors. (Hardly even glanced at them) The fuel pump came with the car already. I checked the millage of the car when I found out it had a salvage tittle and it is accurate at the time and currently has 51k. The car is in awesome condition the interior looks brand new. It does have an inspection sticker hidden in the door Jam when they renewed the title in Kansas. I do plan on going either FI or a High Compression Build ill make that decision when it gets closer to purchasing my head and cam combo. Im going to bring all these points up tomorrow. When I run it on the dyno next time ill be a little more prepared.
Going on Jon's post, Granatelli was in this section a few days ago defending their product, he had a few good points, but I don't know his background, if he's in sales or engineering, but like Jon said, there is no advantage (possibly a slight disadvantage) having it. You could sell it and grab a cheap stock one and put that money towards a mail order tune.
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A Little Dyno Time Today 
Im going to make sure everything is squared away after the head and cam because I want as close to accurate numbers as possible. Again im not wondering if maybe the base file for the Trans Am he loaded into the system had a bad number someplace. Again I appreciate all your help and knowledge. 
