Thoughts on LS7 lifters?
Sure.
My setup, basic 383 with stock heads, springs are ~400lb open and ~155lb closed.
Trashed the wheels on two or three LS7 lifters, which then took out my cam etc etc.
Friend's motor, 385 setup, not sure what his spring rates where, but aggressive cam. Could not get LS7 lifters to quiet down. They would rattle like a cold diesel all the time, regardless of how much preload I put on the rockers. I think I varied from 1/4 to a full turn on rockers with no affect on noise levels. We stuck link bars from Morel I believe in and with a 1/4 turn preload, quiet as a mouse.
Again, apparently having pricey motors means one should not have LS7 lifters or something according to this thread? IDK when the JY SBE LSX mindset crept into LTX land.
My setup, basic 383 with stock heads, springs are ~400lb open and ~155lb closed.
Trashed the wheels on two or three LS7 lifters, which then took out my cam etc etc.
Friend's motor, 385 setup, not sure what his spring rates where, but aggressive cam. Could not get LS7 lifters to quiet down. They would rattle like a cold diesel all the time, regardless of how much preload I put on the rockers. I think I varied from 1/4 to a full turn on rockers with no affect on noise levels. We stuck link bars from Morel I believe in and with a 1/4 turn preload, quiet as a mouse.
Again, apparently having pricey motors means one should not have LS7 lifters or something according to this thread? IDK when the JY SBE LSX mindset crept into LTX land.
Likely, or the case hardening wasn't right. More than likely installer error and a tiny nick in either the wheel of the lifter from rough handling or a nick or two on the lobe from rough handling. Cams are often bent in shipping and should be trued on V-blocks before installation which is also almost never done. Blame the parts, its a winning strategy for shoddy work. Good for the economy too
Could not get LS7 lifters to quiet down.
Likely, or the case hardening wasn't right. More than likely installer error and a tiny nick in either the wheel of the lifter from rough handling or a nick or two on the lobe from rough handling. Cams are often bent in shipping and should be trued on V-blocks before installation which is also almost never done. Blame the parts, its a winning strategy for shoddy work. Good for the economy too
You find out why they collapsed?
Are you sure beyond a shadow of a doubt it wasn't the other way around? Reason I ask is because there was damage to both lobes and rollers, how do you know it was the rollers?
Were they loose in the bores? I'm not saying anything about you being wrong, unless you're triggered enough to take my responses to you seriously. Just wanting information. Always heard they're bad, but there's never any detail as to why.
Are you sure beyond a shadow of a doubt it wasn't the other way around? Reason I ask is because there was damage to both lobes and rollers, how do you know it was the rollers?
Were they loose in the bores? I'm not saying anything about you being wrong, unless you're triggered enough to take my responses to you seriously. Just wanting information. Always heard they're bad, but there's never any detail as to why.
I would not know if it was the cam or the lifters, you are correct there. On my motor, I measured all the lifter bores and they were in spec. Other motor in question, we did not measure just the shoddy installer method of part swap till problem goes away.
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Verdad Gallardo Maybe the newer LS7 lifters are not what the originals were in terms of QC? I sure see a LOT of places selling lifters branded as LS7 but are they? Mine were GM OEM installed and worked very well especially seeing as everything else wore out on that engine after ten years but not the lifters. I have a brand new Summit LS7 set going in now, if anything comes up no good? I will surely update this thread. Same cam as before, same preload, so it will be an interesting comparo
As for LTx? Not interested in building those so I have no idea who/what/how any of that is happening. I can get more than I need out of LS, and then some. Once I get an LT truck, maybe, but I doubt it I tend to leave my trucks stock. One less thing to think about
As for LTx? Not interested in building those so I have no idea who/what/how any of that is happening. I can get more than I need out of LS, and then some. Once I get an LT truck, maybe, but I doubt it I tend to leave my trucks stock. One less thing to think about
Theres always complaints, and almost always about parts. Almost never about bad wrenching which in my experience is most of the problem when it comes down to it. Unless the work is farmed out to a speed shop then, then of course if there is issues THEY SUCK and its not the parts the shop screwed em! I had good luck with the older LS1 style lifters too, and the OEM GM roller lifters before that, and the flat tappets before those, and the solid lifters before those. The only time I had any real trouble with a lifter was a 305 78 Camaro LT that had a cam eater motor. Most of my local friends I grew up with no longer wrench on anything speed oriented anymore because of "bad parts"
Makes me think of this
Makes me think of this
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Joined: Nov 2011
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From: Tucker, GA
Did a cam swap in the original engine using LS lifters. Developed a valvetrain tick that wouldn't go away. Pulled the lifters and found the two that were bad (mentioned earlier). Bought another set of LS lifters, new cam, heads, and then decided on an ERE 383 shortblock. Sent everything to Karl and he built the shortblock and assembled everything. That engine had a tick/knock from day-1 - also sounded like valvetrain. Sent it back to Karl. He re-did the engine and decided to go to the Crowers. 8k miles later, a handful of them had the roller-surfaces delaminate and start to flake off. Ended up destroying that cam and the bearings. After pulling it and rebuilding it again, I'm on the thrid version of this engine and running the GM LTx lifters. Zero problems so far. Karl has also started to steer his clients away from the LS lifters.
Last edited by atlantadan; Aug 29, 2018 at 10:43 AM.
Still winning the internet, bud.
Did a cam swap in the original engine using LS lifters. Developed a valvetrain tick that wouldn't go away. Pulled the lifters and found the two that were bad (mentioned earlier). Bought another set of LS lifters, new cam, heads, and then decided on an ERE 383 shortblock. Sent everything to Karl and he built the shortblock and assembled everything. That engine had a tick/knock from day-1 - also sounded like valvetrain. Sent it back to Karl. He re-did the engine and decided to go to the Crowers. 8k miles later, a handful of them had the roller-surfaces delaminate and start to flake off. Ended up destroying that cam and the bearings. After pulling it and rebuilding it again, I'm on the thrid version of this engine and running the GM LTx lifters. Zero problems so far. Karl has also started to steer his clients away from the LS lifters.
Did a cam swap in the original engine using LS lifters. Developed a valvetrain tick that wouldn't go away. Pulled the lifters and found the two that were bad (mentioned earlier). Bought another set of LS lifters, new cam, heads, and then decided on an ERE 383 shortblock. Sent everything to Karl and he built the shortblock and assembled everything. That engine had a tick/knock from day-1 - also sounded like valvetrain. Sent it back to Karl. He re-did the engine and decided to go to the Crowers. 8k miles later, a handful of them had the roller-surfaces delaminate and start to flake off. Ended up destroying that cam and the bearings. After pulling it and rebuilding it again, I'm on the thrid version of this engine and running the GM LTx lifters. Zero problems so far. Karl has also started to steer his clients away from the LS lifters.
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From: Tucker, GA
Of the original set, no. I didn't dig into them that far. Pulled valve covers, started testing, found them. The heads were also 100% stock with over 100k.
Normally, I'd not bother wrestling with a pig anymore, but Karl Ellwein is one of the most talented, detail-oriented, and respected engine builders out there. I have total confidence in his work. Maybe educate yourself a bit before you go slinging mud about someone. The dude doesn't f-around when it comes to tolerances and such. Once engine was installed and found to be noisy, valve lash was checked and was spot on. Lifter(s) never quieted down and made a racket above 2k. Karl offered to swap it out on his dime, so I pulled it and sent it back
Normally, I'd not bother wrestling with a pig anymore, but Karl Ellwein is one of the most talented, detail-oriented, and respected engine builders out there. I have total confidence in his work. Maybe educate yourself a bit before you go slinging mud about someone. The dude doesn't f-around when it comes to tolerances and such. Once engine was installed and found to be noisy, valve lash was checked and was spot on. Lifter(s) never quieted down and made a racket above 2k. Karl offered to swap it out on his dime, so I pulled it and sent it back
Last edited by atlantadan; Aug 29, 2018 at 11:45 AM.
Of the original set, no. I didn't dig into them that far. Pulled valve covers, started testing, found them. The heads were also 100% stock with over 100k.
Karl Ellwein is one of the most talented, detail-oriented, and respected engine builders out there. I have total confidence in his work. Maybe educate yourself a bit before you go slinging mud about someone. The dude doesn't f-around when it comes to tolerances and such. Once engine was installed and found to be noisy, valve lash was checked and was spot on. Lifter(s) never quieted down and made a racket above 2k. Karl offered to swap it out on his dime, so I pulled it and sent it back
Karl Ellwein is one of the most talented, detail-oriented, and respected engine builders out there. I have total confidence in his work. Maybe educate yourself a bit before you go slinging mud about someone. The dude doesn't f-around when it comes to tolerances and such. Once engine was installed and found to be noisy, valve lash was checked and was spot on. Lifter(s) never quieted down and made a racket above 2k. Karl offered to swap it out on his dime, so I pulled it and sent it back
Anyways, you'll reply about how amazing he is with XYZ builds and how you bought the LS7 lifters direct from William C. Durant's great grandson. blablabla. You had a bad experience, got it. You won't use them, got it. Otherwise have and will and don't have issues. YMMV.
PS....thanks for the pig reference. Most haven't heard that analogy, one of my fav's
The issue is pretty simple. If there is enough bad press about something, then folks will need to make an informed decision if they want to take the chance or spend more money for a product that in theory, should have a better track record. Yes, plenty of folks have used LS7 lifters successfully, I'm one of them, but for piece of mind I opted to switch to a "better" lifter to avoid one less headache (hopefully). Bad news always travels faster than good. No one here has any specific stats to document failure rate, type of install, complete part selection, etc so the only thing people can comment on is their own experience or those of others.
Ticking LS1's is pretty common place but lifter failures were very infrequent until builders started to become the primary source of installations instead of GM. There were thousands upon thousands of us who ran stock GM lifters with cams as radical as the Trex without many issues. The funny part is now that most people are re-building LS engines or having them re-built vs us sbe guys suddenly its bad parts? The data here speaks for itself. Search lifter failure and compare OEM built engines vs "built by...." and see for yourself.
Bad parts, always bad parts, according to the builders
A bad batch maybe? Or bad knock offs maybe? Things we need to know before those of us who havent had lifter issues will jump on the "they suck" bandwagon
Bad parts, always bad parts, according to the builders
A bad batch maybe? Or bad knock offs maybe? Things we need to know before those of us who havent had lifter issues will jump on the "they suck" bandwagon
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Well from the sidelines here this is not the only thread about LS7 lifters and people having issues with them. Agree bad news does travel quicker than good. Not many posts saying "hey I just put in LS7 lifters and all is good"...but more "My LS7 lifters shiat the bed...". Bad lifters, operator error, hard to get to those facts.
Similar to the Comp 918 spring failure rate. Tons of posts about them breaking. I was a member of the two piece 918 club so certainly have an opinion. Did I install them, yes. Did I lash my valves, yes. So who was to blame??? me or the springs (FWIW my cam card spec was for 918 springs). Read tons of threads and found one that reported a particular "batch #" was bad (apparently Comp switched spring makers then) and sure enough my 918's were from that batch
Sooo maybe there is some merit to all the LS7 failures as being due to the lifter itself (bad batch or offshore clones, IDK)...or maybe there is a large % of "operator error" in installing or lashing...IDK
Just that LS7 lifters and Comp 918 springs, as examples, have more bad press than other lifters & springs
With all that said there are 1000's or even 10's of thousands of motors running LS7 lifters and/or Comp 918 springs without issues. But each build is unique to itself on parts used, how they were installed, how high the engine revs, etc.
If one has them but have no "symptoms" (noise) but is nervous about them possibly failing and causing internal engine damage than one could have oil analysis done (Blackstone for example, $28) to see if there is a high metal content in the oil and then proceed from there if it is(read high metal content could be bearings, not lifter/cam wear or both). If not than don't F with something that is working and no other symptoms.
Similar to the Comp 918 spring failure rate. Tons of posts about them breaking. I was a member of the two piece 918 club so certainly have an opinion. Did I install them, yes. Did I lash my valves, yes. So who was to blame??? me or the springs (FWIW my cam card spec was for 918 springs). Read tons of threads and found one that reported a particular "batch #" was bad (apparently Comp switched spring makers then) and sure enough my 918's were from that batch
Sooo maybe there is some merit to all the LS7 failures as being due to the lifter itself (bad batch or offshore clones, IDK)...or maybe there is a large % of "operator error" in installing or lashing...IDK
Just that LS7 lifters and Comp 918 springs, as examples, have more bad press than other lifters & springs
With all that said there are 1000's or even 10's of thousands of motors running LS7 lifters and/or Comp 918 springs without issues. But each build is unique to itself on parts used, how they were installed, how high the engine revs, etc.
If one has them but have no "symptoms" (noise) but is nervous about them possibly failing and causing internal engine damage than one could have oil analysis done (Blackstone for example, $28) to see if there is a high metal content in the oil and then proceed from there if it is(read high metal content could be bearings, not lifter/cam wear or both). If not than don't F with something that is working and no other symptoms.
The valve spring issue is certainly one to beware of and regular inspection and changes are nec. I softened up valve springs a few times and caught them before problems. A lot of racers check valve springs after each pass and there are testers made to quickly test them in car. 99% of engine failures start in the valve train so the concern is very valid on each component. Cam profiles and who ground it makes a difference too and you can run into a chicken or egg situation here with respect to cam or lifter problem. There are a lot of factors to consider if you want to really know whats going on you pretty much need to send your oil out for analysis at each change and keep track of the content along with regular valve spring and compression tests as well as monitoring the tune. Or? You can put your best foot forward, use the parts you want or can afford and drive the hell out of it until it causes you real grief because no matter what you build, no matter what oil you run or who puts it together the moment you turn the key the first time that engine will die, its only a matter of when, and how. The weakest link lets go first. The more power you want to make? The faster this will occur. Thats the simple fact of the matter
The main reason I post in this thread is to see if maybe there is a real LS7 lifter problem and root it out, and to prevent another rod bolt, rocker trunion snake oil problem. More trunion swaps failed than stockers by a huge margin but those stock trunions are junk, ask anyone other than me whos never changed em and again, never had an issue with the stockers whether its rod bolts, trunions, or now apparently in the cross hairs, LS7 lifters
The main reason I post in this thread is to see if maybe there is a real LS7 lifter problem and root it out, and to prevent another rod bolt, rocker trunion snake oil problem. More trunion swaps failed than stockers by a huge margin but those stock trunions are junk, ask anyone other than me whos never changed em and again, never had an issue with the stockers whether its rod bolts, trunions, or now apparently in the cross hairs, LS7 lifters