Has anyone used the Tick Performance Hatemaker 1 or 2 cam?

 

They must be brand new. I was on their site recently looking at their LS1/LS6 blower cams and didn't see these. The stage 1 looks like a real nice option for a lot of people, I really like the valve events. The stage 2 looks good too, definitely a screamer. I typically associate a smaller duration cam with less overlap as a stage 1 so hopefully people don't see "stage 1" and assume it's just an entry level cam and then go putting too much cam in their car by stepping up to stage 2 or 3 when in reality the stage 1 may be the most appropriate. Cam options are fairly limited for the gen 2 LTx, nice to see Tick showing some love. I wonder if the lobes are proprietary because they don't look like Comp XE or XFI.

 

What kind of specs?

 

HateMaker 1 227/233 .551/.560 w 1.52 and .588/.597 w 1.6 LSA 110+2 2200-6200 rpm

HateMaker 2 233/239 .560/.569 w 1.52 and .597/.607 w 1.6 LSA 110+3 2800-6600 rpm

There is also stage 3 ( Hold my Beer) lol.....its a big'un

I was pretty much set on buying one of Lloyd Elliots cams....230/238 or 231/239 cams as I spoke to him about my build, but then I saw these and they seemed interesting, and similar to Lloyds. I think HateMaker 2 is a hair more cam than I want to go only due to the rpm range being a hair more than I want to spin my motor. I'd like to shift around 64-6500 max. Still undecided on 355 0r 383 but most likely 383.

 

With a 6,400-6,500 shiftpoint limitation the stage 1 is going to be the way to go if you go the 355 route. The stage 2 would be a real hot cam in a 355 but if your manual the 16 degrees of overlap may be a bit of a handful in a motor of that size. It would work nicely in a 383 and the added cubes will soak some of that overlap up. With the late intake valve close of the stage 2 and assuming decent heads, she is still gonna wanna rev in a 383 but the added cubes will also soak up some of that IVC. I dig both cams just depends on usage, desires, combo, etc. as to which is most appropriate.

What are the full specs on the two cams Lloyd is suggesting?

 

OP

well 355 or 383 you need to decide that first then pic cam. The 383 will have more TQ with everything else = between it and a 355. If its all about the 1/4 mi where you will be at max rpm 1-3 gears and, pending rear end gearing and tire size, want to be close to that crossing the line than get the cam that makes its peak power at the 6500 rpm range

But if this is more a street car with occasional 1/4 mi than go smaller.

Hatemaker is new on the scene so not much data or posts about their +/- over other custom grinds like ones offered from LE

Lloyd certainly is not the only one knowledgeable on cams and maybe whoever is the brain trust behind the Hatemaker is of = skill. IDK if there would be much performance difference between the 2 cams (LE or Hatemaker) assuming they are in the same motor/car

If you go for the Hatemaker post dyno results

I think its great any company is supporting the Gen 2 LT1, especially since AI seems to have taken, at the very least, a hiatus from that platform

 

I would choose the Hatemaker 1 even in a 383
i had a smaller cam than that in my 383 and it still made power to 6400rpm

 

It’s a street / strip car, summer driven on nice days, occasionally tracked when my buddies go. Heads are the same as yours, 561 castings, ported by Lingenfelter, bought them off Camonlyjabroni on here. Specs areas follows.
180 cc intake
74 cc exhaust
58cc chambers
intake flows 275 cfm @ .600
exhaust flows 225 cfm @.600

the cams Lloyd spec’d are 230/238 565/565 110 and 231/239 571/587 110. Both are popular cams for him and make good power in either 355 or 383. It’ll be a 11.1 minimum compression, 3.90 gears, 3400 stall and so on....typical full build stuff lol. The only thing left to decide is cam choice and I think I’m really just trying to find the best streetable cam...they are all very close I think but you guys would know better. I’d like to push the car as far into the 11s as I can, while still make it an enjoyable street car. I’ll most likely go with the smaller of each option...I’m sure I’m only splitting hairs with 5-10 hp differences....which I can live with. I’d be happy with an 11.40-11.50 car NA....I can always spray it for ***** n giggles

 

Drivability will be dependent upon the overlap of the cam. In a nutshell, overlap = power. The more overlap the cam has the greater the power potential due to increased scavenging the overlap provides in the upper rpms. Overlap also contributes to that choppy idle that many of us like. Downside is that overlap hinders drivability and emissions. A stalled automatic will absorb overlap better than a car with a manual transmission. For example, my C5Z has a cam with +8 degrees of overlap and it bucks like a wild bronco in parking lots unless I feather the clutch. I just simply have learned to drive around it and it's no biggie as a weekend car but not what I would want in a daily driver. The cam in my WS6 has +13 degrees, a decent bit more, it surges a tad at a steady cruise rpm in OD but does not exhibit any bucking whatsoever at low speeds due to the 4,000 converter soaking the overlap up. If drivability is what you're after the less the overlap the better. Here's what we are working with:

1. Tick stage 1 227/233 = +10 degrees overlap
2. Tick stage 2 233/239 = +16 degrees overlap
3. Lloyd's 230/238 = +14 degrees overlap
4. Lloyd's 231/239 = +15 degrees overlap

According to the above and assuming equal quality of tuning, the Tick stage 1 will exhibit the best drivability followed by Lloyd's 230/238, Lloyd's 231/239 and finally the Tick stage 2. Drivability to a degree dependent upon the quality of the tune. It's impossible for a +16 overlap cam to drive like stock but a good tuner can make it more bearable than a shitty one.

I'm sure Lloyd would be happy to make some tweaks to either of his options to reduce the overlap if that's what you would want. I wish I had the ICL or advance for both of his cams so we could compare and contrast the valve events but he may not want to give out that info understandably so.

Also, if you wanna push that sucker as far into the 11s as you can, I'd go with more than a 3,400 converter. A 3,600 is the minimum I'd go based upon my experiences with 3,200, 3,600, and 4,000 Yanks.

 

I will be buying a cam in the next few months. i emailed tick about their cams.

I told him that I'm going for max power and shifting by 65-6600rpm max. the car came with LT4 heads and intake installed. Comp 1.6 rockers. i just installed Mac mids (car is lowered, cant do longtubes). The heads and intake may or may not receive some minimal home port matching, etc. I'm leaning toward nitrous later on also. 125-150 shot maximum.

he recommended the hatemaker 3. 241/245 | .571”/.577” | LSA111+4 (.609"/.615" lift with 1.6 rockers)

 

i was actually considering the HM 1 because i really liked the cc503 driveability and the HM 1 is a little bigger. the idea was that cam and a 150 shot. should scoot pretty good. i mentioned max power to tick to see what they say.

 

If you're on stock CID the stage 3 is far too aggressive. If you go with the stage 1 as a N20 cam you'll want the same kind of LSA they recommended with the stage 3 with the stage 1.

 

Jesus. That thing belongs in a high compression stroker. Couldn't imagine how soggy it would be downstairs or ugliness of the drivability with +21 degrees overlap in a stock bottom end car (assuming that's what you have).

cc503 is only +3 degrees overlap compared to the +10 of the HM 1. That's a pretty big difference that you'll notice it with a 6-speed car, less so with a stalled auto. I wouldn't be afraid of +10 degrees, it just won't drive exactly like the cc503.

 

understood. here is something pretty impressive to me.

-Hold My Beer Camshaft
-PAC 1207X springs and hardware removed from the Grubb Worm
-Comp 1.6 ratio 7/16" rockers removed from the Grubb Worm
-ARP rocker studs from the Grubb Worm
-Trick Flow guide plates from the Grubb Worm
-Tick Performance 6.975" .105" wall 5/16" pushrods
-Tick Performance billet oil pump drive housing
-Stock Casting LT1 cylinder heads lightly worked by LKN Speed of Mooresville NC that we scored with the purchase of a blown engine/car a few years back (still has stock 1.94 / 1.50 LT1 valves)
-Heads milled .030"
-Mr. Gasket .026" head gaskets
-ARP head bolts
-Stock LT1 intake also port matched by LKN Speed
-Stock SS cold air intake
-Stock SS catback exhaust
-Speed Engineering 1 3/4" long tube headers and off road y-pipe
-CSR electric water pump from the Grubb Worm
-ATI balancer 10% underdrive
-Spec stage 3+ Clutch and billet flywheel from the Grubb Worm
factory 70k miles bottom end.

412 rwhp and 372 tq

there is a video of it idling on their facebook page in the comments of the post. not at all too radical.

 

That's a real beautiful SS they got there. Sounds great too, the factory SLP 2OTL exhaust does a nice job of taming things down. The chart honestly looks better than I would have expected. Granted it doesn't tell you what sub 2,500 rpm looks like naturally. If the heads were stock ported LE2s or Ai 200cc the numbers wouldn't be impressive given the significant duration of the cam but given the heads are only slightly ported and have stock sized valves I think the numbers are good considering the intake and exhaust setup could be improved upon. I would imagine the car picking up a nice chunk of power and extending the peak hp further out with more head work including larger valves, true duals and an LS1 lid setup. Looks like peak is 6,400/6,500 and it holds it nicely to 7,000. That's a setup I'd shift at 6,900/7,000, just not sure how long the bottom end would last. It's cool Tick is showing the LTs some love, I've dealt with them in the past and use some of their products and they are a good outfit.

 

i agree with everything you said. there is so much room to make more good power. that poor bottom end though. this may cause a little mini resurgence of popularity lol.

ive been away from fbodies and cars for a while after i got married. im just getting back into it. i had a 98 LS1 car in the past and this is my 3rd lt1. the reason im saying all that is im honestly a little surprised at all the LT1s still around. locally, there arent many and when you do see them, they are clapped out. cant wait to actually get into this car. ive been fixing mickey mouse stuff and did the headers and exhaust for now.

 

The car sounds tame...ish. Still too much cam for my needs. One of the reasons I’m leaning towards a smaller cam is after talking with ABA383 who had a baby crammed 383 but his entire setup rocked and he ran 11.20s. While I’m not expecting those times, I believe I can achieve my goals by having everything work in harmony, so a well set up chassis/suspension among other things.

 

Just personal opinion but the guys at AI always seemed like the above their raising douche nozzle types. They may have had a great product but when people tend to make the audience they're trying to cater to feel dumb.... Well that just speaks for itself doesn't it. I'm happy for the people that had good luck with their products and again, I think they had a good line, I just didn't care much for the personalities.

 

Did this happen to you?

 

And there you have it