LT1 Weaknesses
10-04-2004, 11:07 PM
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LT1 Weaknesses I posted this on CZ28.com, figured I could try here also 
The motor has become a part of an unexpected rebuild due to a blown headgasket. The car sees a lot of road racing, so my goal in the rebuild is to make sure I cover all the LT1 weaknesses. The car will also be tuned by a highly recommended engine builder fron North Carolina who will be here in Cali on the weekend of the 29th(linky
), so the goal is to get this car done by then.
What I've seemed to discover, many of you are running ARP bolts on the main, but what I'm unsure about, is whether it is more appropriate to go to a 4 bolt, is that possible? With my application and use, is it needed?
Also, who are some of the ppl I can turn to for an oil pan where I won't suffer from oil starvation. Is Canton my only alternative?
Are rods that big of a deal on swapping on a mildly built motor, but one that sees quit a bit of road racing?
A list of mods that have been purchased or awaiting purchasing (please keep in mind, I'm trying to keep my budget quit low and more willing to put my money towards proper tuning):
Should I bore .030 over if not needed once the shop sees the block tomorrow afternoon or Wednesday morning? Will more then likely just go w/ hypereutetic (sp?) pistons again (I'm working on a budget :o )
I apologize if some of these questions are stupid or lack proper knowledge, I'm still learning about this motor build-up stuff, I'm just a suspension guy :o
Cliff notes: What are things that should be replaced during a rebuild for a car used quit a bit for road racing
The motor has become a part of an unexpected rebuild due to a blown headgasket. The car sees a lot of road racing, so my goal in the rebuild is to make sure I cover all the LT1 weaknesses. The car will also be tuned by a highly recommended engine builder fron North Carolina who will be here in Cali on the weekend of the 29th(linky
), so the goal is to get this car done by then.What I've seemed to discover, many of you are running ARP bolts on the main, but what I'm unsure about, is whether it is more appropriate to go to a 4 bolt, is that possible? With my application and use, is it needed?
Also, who are some of the ppl I can turn to for an oil pan where I won't suffer from oil starvation. Is Canton my only alternative?
Are rods that big of a deal on swapping on a mildly built motor, but one that sees quit a bit of road racing?
A list of mods that have been purchased or awaiting purchasing (please keep in mind, I'm trying to keep my budget quit low and more willing to put my money towards proper tuning):
- Comp Cam 212/218 (a cam my roommate had sitting in the garage, works well w/ stock applications, especially ones w/ stock exhaust manifolds :o )
- Isky valve springs
- 1.6 RRs (still awaiting purchasing)
- Heads have already had a valve job and milled so they are no longer banana shaped :o )
- Injectors (will be going w/ the ford motorsport)
- CSI electric water pump
- oil pressure sensor
- OEM fuel pump (still awaiting purchase)
- Front O2 sensors (still awaiting purchase)
- OEM headgasket set
- OEM head bolts
Should I bore .030 over if not needed once the shop sees the block tomorrow afternoon or Wednesday morning? Will more then likely just go w/ hypereutetic (sp?) pistons again (I'm working on a budget :o )
I apologize if some of these questions are stupid or lack proper knowledge, I'm still learning about this motor build-up stuff, I'm just a suspension guy :o
Cliff notes: What are things that should be replaced during a rebuild for a car used quit a bit for road racing
10-04-2004, 11:29 PM
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No you probably don't need a 4 bolt main. It's nice...but you said you're on a budget. Just some good ARP bolts should do nicely.
The Canton pan is sweet, and will be great for road racing with the trap doors and such. I think most people get that because of fitment issues. There are a lot of Gen I SBC pans that will work on an LT1 just fitment (not to mention sensors) become an issue.
As far as rods go... that is the weakest part in the LT1 (ignoring the opti). I don't know if you're planning of doing more to this engine or not. If not I would consider putting in some ARP rod bolts. That'll keep them together real well. If you are... bite the bullet and buy some Eagle H Beam rods or equivalent... cheap and will take a good beating.
Pistons/overbore depends on how much wear the engine has. If the bores have significant wear and/or poor compression tests... then an overbore might be necessary. Hypers are good and cheap. If you were going to be hardcore you could get forged pistons... they'll stand up to anything and you can run tighter clearances (depending on application). Good Luck
The Canton pan is sweet, and will be great for road racing with the trap doors and such. I think most people get that because of fitment issues. There are a lot of Gen I SBC pans that will work on an LT1 just fitment (not to mention sensors) become an issue.
As far as rods go... that is the weakest part in the LT1 (ignoring the opti). I don't know if you're planning of doing more to this engine or not. If not I would consider putting in some ARP rod bolts. That'll keep them together real well. If you are... bite the bullet and buy some Eagle H Beam rods or equivalent... cheap and will take a good beating.
Pistons/overbore depends on how much wear the engine has. If the bores have significant wear and/or poor compression tests... then an overbore might be necessary. Hypers are good and cheap. If you were going to be hardcore you could get forged pistons... they'll stand up to anything and you can run tighter clearances (depending on application). Good Luck
10-04-2004, 11:55 PM
#3
Couple questions:
-How high do you plan to rev it? This determines a lot of things such as rod upgrades, mains caps etc.. That cam you have listed looks really small to me so I'm guessing you'll be keeping the revs under 6k. If that's the case, the stock 2bolt main configuration is fine, and the stock rods/pistons should be ok also. Use good bolts and you're good to go.
-What kind of upgrades are you doing to the heads, if any? This may determine the overbore required. If you're not installing larger valves etc, I'd stay with a smaller overbore if you can, like .010" or .020". This will increase the number of rebuilds possible with that block and leave more strength in the bores. Hell, for that matter you may be able to get away with a fresh hone on the cylinder bores and re-using the stock pistons if you're on a super-tight budget. You won't know this until you check the bore wear though.
Go with a double roller timing chain since you're going with an electric water pump.
Consider the Impalla SS head gaskets. They are thinner and will increase your compression a tad.
I'd replace the oil pump with a stock GM unit. Many road race people make the first mistake of using a high volume pump, only to find out that all the oil gets pumped to the topend of the engine during a long back stretch.
While I'm on the subject, there is a spot on the LT1 timing covers that can be ground down on the inside to help return oil into the pan. It's the spot right behind the seal area where it meets up to the block.
That's all I can think of off the top of my head.
Mike
-How high do you plan to rev it? This determines a lot of things such as rod upgrades, mains caps etc.. That cam you have listed looks really small to me so I'm guessing you'll be keeping the revs under 6k. If that's the case, the stock 2bolt main configuration is fine, and the stock rods/pistons should be ok also. Use good bolts and you're good to go.
-What kind of upgrades are you doing to the heads, if any? This may determine the overbore required. If you're not installing larger valves etc, I'd stay with a smaller overbore if you can, like .010" or .020". This will increase the number of rebuilds possible with that block and leave more strength in the bores. Hell, for that matter you may be able to get away with a fresh hone on the cylinder bores and re-using the stock pistons if you're on a super-tight budget. You won't know this until you check the bore wear though.
Go with a double roller timing chain since you're going with an electric water pump.
Consider the Impalla SS head gaskets. They are thinner and will increase your compression a tad.
I'd replace the oil pump with a stock GM unit. Many road race people make the first mistake of using a high volume pump, only to find out that all the oil gets pumped to the topend of the engine during a long back stretch.
While I'm on the subject, there is a spot on the LT1 timing covers that can be ground down on the inside to help return oil into the pan. It's the spot right behind the seal area where it meets up to the block. That's all I can think of off the top of my head.
Mike
10-05-2004, 01:52 AM
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Originally Posted by NavySS
No you probably don't need a 4 bolt main. It's nice...but you said you're on a budget. Just some good ARP bolts should do nicely.
The Canton pan is sweet, and will be great for road racing with the trap doors and such. I think most people get that because of fitment issues. There are a lot of Gen I SBC pans that will work on an LT1 just fitment (not to mention sensors) become an issue.
As far as rods go... that is the weakest part in the LT1 (ignoring the opti). I don't know if you're planning of doing more to this engine or not. If not I would consider putting in some ARP rod bolts. That'll keep them together real well. If you are... bite the bullet and buy some Eagle H Beam rods or equivalent... cheap and will take a good beating.
Pistons/overbore depends on how much wear the engine has. If the bores have significant wear and/or poor compression tests... then an overbore might be necessary. Hypers are good and cheap. If you were going to be hardcore you could get forged pistons... they'll stand up to anything and you can run tighter clearances (depending on application). Good Luck
The Canton pan is sweet, and will be great for road racing with the trap doors and such. I think most people get that because of fitment issues. There are a lot of Gen I SBC pans that will work on an LT1 just fitment (not to mention sensors) become an issue.
As far as rods go... that is the weakest part in the LT1 (ignoring the opti). I don't know if you're planning of doing more to this engine or not. If not I would consider putting in some ARP rod bolts. That'll keep them together real well. If you are... bite the bullet and buy some Eagle H Beam rods or equivalent... cheap and will take a good beating.
Pistons/overbore depends on how much wear the engine has. If the bores have significant wear and/or poor compression tests... then an overbore might be necessary. Hypers are good and cheap. If you were going to be hardcore you could get forged pistons... they'll stand up to anything and you can run tighter clearances (depending on application). Good Luck
I "was" going to price other pans in the market, but guess I'll be sticking to the Canton for sure
The rods I have been getting mixed opinioins by everyone I talk to. Right now it's looking to be a safe bet to probably replace them. The motor will not see much more performance mods past this, I rather have it just be reliable and not worry about parts breaking once I start driving it like I stole it.
Thank you Sir
10-05-2004, 02:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Mikey 97Z M6
Couple questions:
-How high do you plan to rev it? This determines a lot of things such as rod upgrades, mains caps etc.. That cam you have listed looks really small to me so I'm guessing you'll be keeping the revs under 6k. If that's the case, the stock 2bolt main configuration is fine, and the stock rods/pistons should be ok also. Use good bolts and you're good to go.
-What kind of upgrades are you doing to the heads, if any? This may determine the overbore required. If you're not installing larger valves etc, I'd stay with a smaller overbore if you can, like .010" or .020". This will increase the number of rebuilds possible with that block and leave more strength in the bores. Hell, for that matter you may be able to get away with a fresh hone on the cylinder bores and re-using the stock pistons if you're on a super-tight budget. You won't know this until you check the bore wear though.
Go with a double roller timing chain since you're going with an electric water pump.
Consider the Impalla SS head gaskets. They are thinner and will increase your compression a tad.
I'd replace the oil pump with a stock GM unit. Many road race people make the first mistake of using a high volume pump, only to find out that all the oil gets pumped to the topend of the engine during a long back stretch. While I'm on the subject, there is a spot on the LT1 timing covers that can be ground down on the inside to help return oil into the pan. It's the spot right behind the seal area where it meets up to the block.
That's all I can think of off the top of my head.
Mike
-How high do you plan to rev it? This determines a lot of things such as rod upgrades, mains caps etc.. That cam you have listed looks really small to me so I'm guessing you'll be keeping the revs under 6k. If that's the case, the stock 2bolt main configuration is fine, and the stock rods/pistons should be ok also. Use good bolts and you're good to go.
-What kind of upgrades are you doing to the heads, if any? This may determine the overbore required. If you're not installing larger valves etc, I'd stay with a smaller overbore if you can, like .010" or .020". This will increase the number of rebuilds possible with that block and leave more strength in the bores. Hell, for that matter you may be able to get away with a fresh hone on the cylinder bores and re-using the stock pistons if you're on a super-tight budget. You won't know this until you check the bore wear though.
Go with a double roller timing chain since you're going with an electric water pump.
Consider the Impalla SS head gaskets. They are thinner and will increase your compression a tad.
I'd replace the oil pump with a stock GM unit. Many road race people make the first mistake of using a high volume pump, only to find out that all the oil gets pumped to the topend of the engine during a long back stretch.
While I'm on the subject, there is a spot on the LT1 timing covers that can be ground down on the inside to help return oil into the pan. It's the spot right behind the seal area where it meets up to the block. That's all I can think of off the top of my head.
Mike
The heads are pretty much remaining stock
I'll look into those Impala SS gaskets, thanks for the heads up on that
Yea, I've come to the conclusion, after reading various responses, that oil pump needs to be replaced.
I'll PM you if I have any further questions on that LT1 Timing cover if I have any issues w/ that.
Thanks for your help
10-05-2004, 08:59 AM
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I nice alternative for stock rods would be eagle sir I beams, they come with arp waveloc bolts and have twice the fatigue resistance of stock rods. Call seco performance 800-633-3864 run you just under $200 from them (summit sells them for $295).
10-05-2004, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Nasty_T/A_GT
I nice alternative for stock rods would be eagle sir I beams, they come with arp waveloc bolts and have twice the fatigue resistance of stock rods. Call seco performance 800-633-3864 run you just under $200 from them (summit sells them for $295).
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10-05-2004, 05:37 PM
#8
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since i have a k10 chevy rebuilt, i'll add somethin to the "4-bolt main" Q.. the 4-bolt main is more for high load applications.. ie trucks, 4x4s, towing etc. like said before, its always nice to have but is not "needed".
10-17-2004, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by NavySS
The Canton pan is sweet, and will be great for road racing with the trap doors and such. I think most people get that because of fitment issues. There are a lot of Gen I SBC pans that will work on an LT1 just fitment (not to mention sensors) become an issue.
STYLE: 7-1/2" shallow, fully baffled for road racing, this pan was designed to fit in late model (82-92) F Bodies, (93-Up) F Bodies might require the steering rack to be lowered or the engine mounts shimmed. Makes a great late F-Body Drag Pan. Can be used with cross-over exhaust. Pans can be notched for steering clearance on a special order basis.
Canton
Canton
BTW, the shop has delayed on the block, will not get it till mid this week, so I'm going to get a tune by a guy that comes with recommendation locally.
10-18-2004, 02:58 PM
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*Update*
I ended up spinning a cam bearing, am I safe going w/ the larger bearings if can be found or just getting a new block?
Also, what lifters, that are affordable, would you guys recommend?
I ended up spinning a cam bearing, am I safe going w/ the larger bearings if can be found or just getting a new block?
Also, what lifters, that are affordable, would you guys recommend?
10-18-2004, 03:12 PM
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I had no idea there were still so many issues with the Canton. I remember there were some issues, but I thought they fixed them. But I think you'll probably get that with a "road race" style pan like that. Since it has the wings on the side that stick out.
I don't know about fitment issues with that pan, since I don't have one. I like it because it looks like a quality piece, and that's the pan I will probably get when I need a high performance oil pan. I suppose you'll either have to order a clearance one (don't know how long that will take). Or look around and see if there are other pans you would like. I'm pretty sure Canton is the only manufacturer to build a pan with LT1s in mind
.
I don't know about fitment issues with that pan, since I don't have one. I like it because it looks like a quality piece, and that's the pan I will probably get when I need a high performance oil pan. I suppose you'll either have to order a clearance one (don't know how long that will take). Or look around and see if there are other pans you would like. I'm pretty sure Canton is the only manufacturer to build a pan with LT1s in mind
.
10-18-2004, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by NavySS
I had no idea there were still so many issues with the Canton. I remember there were some issues, but I thought they fixed them. But I think you'll probably get that with a "road race" style pan like that. Since it has the wings on the side that stick out.
I don't know about fitment issues with that pan, since I don't have one. I like it because it looks like a quality piece, and that's the pan I will probably get when I need a high performance oil pan. I suppose you'll either have to order a clearance one (don't know how long that will take). Or look around and see if there are other pans you would like. I'm pretty sure Canton is the only manufacturer to build a pan with LT1s in mind
.
I don't know about fitment issues with that pan, since I don't have one. I like it because it looks like a quality piece, and that's the pan I will probably get when I need a high performance oil pan. I suppose you'll either have to order a clearance one (don't know how long that will take). Or look around and see if there are other pans you would like. I'm pretty sure Canton is the only manufacturer to build a pan with LT1s in mind
.
10-19-2004, 08:46 AM
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Hey whats up, I live In michigan and I have some 1.6 roller rockers that I need to sell. They are brand new and come with polylocks. There aluminum and are made by vortech. I will sell them for $125.00 shipped. give me a call at (248)-762-7428 (kevin)
Originally Posted by Jerm
I posted this on CZ28.com, figured I could try here also
The motor has become a part of an unexpected rebuild due to a blown headgasket. The car sees a lot of road racing, so my goal in the rebuild is to make sure I cover all the LT1 weaknesses. The car will also be tuned by a highly recommended engine builder fron North Carolina who will be here in Cali on the weekend of the 29th(linky), so the goal is to get this car done by then.
What I've seemed to discover, many of you are running ARP bolts on the main, but what I'm unsure about, is whether it is more appropriate to go to a 4 bolt, is that possible? With my application and use, is it needed?
Also, who are some of the ppl I can turn to for an oil pan where I won't suffer from oil starvation. Is Canton my only alternative?
Are rods that big of a deal on swapping on a mildly built motor, but one that sees quit a bit of road racing?
A list of mods that have been purchased or awaiting purchasing (please keep in mind, I'm trying to keep my budget quit low and more willing to put my money towards proper tuning):
Should I bore .030 over if not needed once the shop sees the block tomorrow afternoon or Wednesday morning? Will more then likely just go w/ hypereutetic (sp?) pistons again (I'm working on a budget :o )
I apologize if some of these questions are stupid or lack proper knowledge, I'm still learning about this motor build-up stuff, I'm just a suspension guy :o
Cliff notes: What are things that should be replaced during a rebuild for a car used quit a bit for road racing
The motor has become a part of an unexpected rebuild due to a blown headgasket. The car sees a lot of road racing, so my goal in the rebuild is to make sure I cover all the LT1 weaknesses. The car will also be tuned by a highly recommended engine builder fron North Carolina who will be here in Cali on the weekend of the 29th(linky
), so the goal is to get this car done by then.What I've seemed to discover, many of you are running ARP bolts on the main, but what I'm unsure about, is whether it is more appropriate to go to a 4 bolt, is that possible? With my application and use, is it needed?
Also, who are some of the ppl I can turn to for an oil pan where I won't suffer from oil starvation. Is Canton my only alternative?
Are rods that big of a deal on swapping on a mildly built motor, but one that sees quit a bit of road racing?
A list of mods that have been purchased or awaiting purchasing (please keep in mind, I'm trying to keep my budget quit low and more willing to put my money towards proper tuning):
- Comp Cam 212/218 (a cam my roommate had sitting in the garage, works well w/ stock applications, especially ones w/ stock exhaust manifolds :o )
- Isky valve springs
- 1.6 RRs (still awaiting purchasing)
- Heads have already had a valve job and milled so they are no longer banana shaped :o )
- Injectors (will be going w/ the ford motorsport)
- CSI electric water pump
- oil pressure sensor
- OEM fuel pump (still awaiting purchase)
- Front O2 sensors (still awaiting purchase)
- OEM headgasket set
- OEM head bolts
Should I bore .030 over if not needed once the shop sees the block tomorrow afternoon or Wednesday morning? Will more then likely just go w/ hypereutetic (sp?) pistons again (I'm working on a budget :o )
I apologize if some of these questions are stupid or lack proper knowledge, I'm still learning about this motor build-up stuff, I'm just a suspension guy :o
Cliff notes: What are things that should be replaced during a rebuild for a car used quit a bit for road racing
10-23-2004, 11:01 AM
#14
Originally Posted by Nasty_T/A_GT
A nice alternative for stock rods would be eagle sir I beams, they come with arp waveloc bolts and have twice the fatigue resistance of stock rods. Call seco performance 800-633-3864 run you just under $200 from them (summit sells them for $295).
As far as 4 bolt mains are concerned, you don't need them unless you plan on revving this motor pretty high (close to 7,000 and above). Go with some ARP Main Studs. Make DAMN sure you put the main caps back on the main they oringinally came off of.
Last edited by '68LT1camaro; 10-23-2004 at 05:33 PM.
