Machinist on crack?!
05-03-2005, 08:44 PM
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Machinist on crack?! Hey site, this is my first post, nice meeting you all.
Anyways, to make this post short and easy so as not to bore or offend anyone.. I went to a machine shop today and talked to the port/polishing dude... and what he told me contrasted everything I knew about cars.
First of all, he said that actual drive train loss is more around 33%. I always figured it to be around 15% or so, but he strongly disagreed, saying it was a lot more. I told him that stock LT1's usually dynoed anywhere from 230-250 rwhp, and he said the actual numbers were nowhere near close to that, that they were considerably lower. WTF?
Next, we had a small discussion, about what kind of work I'd like out of my cylinder heads and what to expect.. I said that I'd like a pair of port/polished heads to make around 350-400rwhp or so, and he just laughed. The dude said port/polished cylinder heads make nothing close to that, even if I did make 250 rwhp stock.
He then went on and stated that the easiest, cheapest, and effective way to gain hp was to find a pair of Vortec heads from LS1s and bolt them on to the LT1, w/out even needing to port/polish them...? I didn't know too much about this, so I didn't say much. But afterwards I went home and looked this up.. I couldn't verify if LS1s used Vortec heads ( I hate being a darn LT1 newb), but I did find some aftermarket cast iron and aluminum "Vortec" heads.. the cast iron heads produce 20-40hp, and the aluminum heads produce 30hp.. Nothing close to what the machinest guy was talking about. Also turns out those "Vortec" heads aren't even built to bolt onto LT1/LT4/LS1s.
Then we had some more confusing talk. Since I have an auto, I was explaining to him how I was looking into a torque converter.. and he strongly advised me against it, saying it doesn't even help in my acceleration. His arguement was that all it does is raise the rpm, it does little or nothing for acceleration.
And then we had a small talk about compressoin ratios. He asked me if I knew what my compression ratio was. .and I said yeah.. 10 4 something.. and he disagreed again. He said that 10 was a rather high ratio, that most Corvettes don't even have that high of a compression, and that the LT1 was more around the area of 7.
By this time I was totally lost..lost, because the countless hours I had spent researching and reading about cars, were quickly tossed aside when I talked to this guy for only half an hour. And seeing as how the guy had shelves full of cylinder heads stacked up behind him that he was working on porting while he was talking, it seemed he was pretty knowledgable, and it just couldn't be feasible that he was wrong.
Anyone have any comments on this? Was anything this guy said even remotely close to accurate? Or was he just playing some kind of mean trick on me, filling me with false information? Any reply would be helpful, thanks!
Anyways, to make this post short and easy so as not to bore or offend anyone.. I went to a machine shop today and talked to the port/polishing dude... and what he told me contrasted everything I knew about cars.
First of all, he said that actual drive train loss is more around 33%. I always figured it to be around 15% or so, but he strongly disagreed, saying it was a lot more. I told him that stock LT1's usually dynoed anywhere from 230-250 rwhp, and he said the actual numbers were nowhere near close to that, that they were considerably lower. WTF?
Next, we had a small discussion, about what kind of work I'd like out of my cylinder heads and what to expect.. I said that I'd like a pair of port/polished heads to make around 350-400rwhp or so, and he just laughed. The dude said port/polished cylinder heads make nothing close to that, even if I did make 250 rwhp stock.
He then went on and stated that the easiest, cheapest, and effective way to gain hp was to find a pair of Vortec heads from LS1s and bolt them on to the LT1, w/out even needing to port/polish them...? I didn't know too much about this, so I didn't say much. But afterwards I went home and looked this up.. I couldn't verify if LS1s used Vortec heads ( I hate being a darn LT1 newb), but I did find some aftermarket cast iron and aluminum "Vortec" heads.. the cast iron heads produce 20-40hp, and the aluminum heads produce 30hp.. Nothing close to what the machinest guy was talking about. Also turns out those "Vortec" heads aren't even built to bolt onto LT1/LT4/LS1s.
Then we had some more confusing talk. Since I have an auto, I was explaining to him how I was looking into a torque converter.. and he strongly advised me against it, saying it doesn't even help in my acceleration. His arguement was that all it does is raise the rpm, it does little or nothing for acceleration.
And then we had a small talk about compressoin ratios. He asked me if I knew what my compression ratio was. .and I said yeah.. 10 4 something.. and he disagreed again. He said that 10 was a rather high ratio, that most Corvettes don't even have that high of a compression, and that the LT1 was more around the area of 7.
By this time I was totally lost..lost, because the countless hours I had spent researching and reading about cars, were quickly tossed aside when I talked to this guy for only half an hour. And seeing as how the guy had shelves full of cylinder heads stacked up behind him that he was working on porting while he was talking, it seemed he was pretty knowledgable, and it just couldn't be feasible that he was wrong.
Anyone have any comments on this? Was anything this guy said even remotely close to accurate? Or was he just playing some kind of mean trick on me, filling me with false information? Any reply would be helpful, thanks!
05-03-2005, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by FIREHAWK #07
guys an idiot..... think he was just messin with ya; or he is a complete idiot
Any machinists out there have a say about this? 
05-03-2005, 09:20 PM
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The guy knows nothing about the LT1, everything you've said that he said was wrong. I wouldn't have that guy do anything for me, it sounds like he stopped paying attention to what's been happening in the automotive world years ago.
ZcarGuy
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05-03-2005, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by zcarguy
The guy knows nothing about the LT1, everything you've said that he said was wrong. I wouldn't have that guy do anything for me, it sounds like he stopped paying attention to what's been happening in the automotive world years ago.
ZcarGuy
ZcarGuy
And on the off chance that he was messing with you, that's even more of a reason to run from him. The only thing worse than an idiot is an idiot that's also a liar
.Tom
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05-03-2005, 10:26 PM
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I have heard many dumb people talk but this pisses me off just reading it..I guess i have ran into so many people like this that I have some deep seeded anger...Anyway, find someone else. I luckily found an awesome mechanice to work on my lt1, he never touched the heads but he did just about everything else.
05-04-2005, 02:45 AM
#12
You know, sound like you just came across a "MEAT HEAD" 
.. I ran in to a MEAT HEAD, a while back, I was trying to tell him that I was going to run 11:0:1 compresion, and would not stop telling me how dum that was going to be , and I would not stop telling him that with tuning anything is possible but, I guess between his MEAT HEAD and the 4 barrel carborator in his pants I was in the wrong place 
YOu need to find a shop that has and still works on LT1's. That is your best beat!!!!!!!!!!!
.. I ran in to a MEAT HEAD, a while back, I was trying to tell him that I was going to run 11:0:1 compresion, and would not stop telling me how dum that was going to be , and I would not stop telling him that with tuning anything is possible but, I guess between his MEAT HEAD and the 4 barrel carborator in his pants I was in the wrong place YOu need to find a shop that has and still works on LT1's. That is your best beat!!!!!!!!!!!
05-04-2005, 03:26 AM
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where are you located. i'm in trenton area of jersey and there are tons of chevy only places. i just sent my heads off to be ported for 200 a piece. the guy knew which heads i had just by looking at them, i didnt even tell him they were for the lt1, he just looked and asked if they were lt1 or 4. i knew he had plenty of experience then. any way, his dad has been doing port/polish jobs for almost 50 years, and he has about 20 yrs experience. he's in burlington. if you're not from the area, look into local websites and car clubs, go to another mech. and see if they know anyone (other than that idiot) who can do machine work. if you dont trust anyone, send them off to some of the site supporters on here.
05-04-2005, 05:52 PM
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7 to 1 compression??? That's low for even a blower motor. Surely this guy was just messing with you, he can't be that stupid about everything and run a shop, but I don't think I'd spend my money with him.
05-04-2005, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by severous01
where are you located. i'm in trenton area of jersey and there are tons of chevy only places. i just sent my heads off to be ported for 200 a piece. the guy knew which heads i had just by looking at them, i didnt even tell him they were for the lt1, he just looked and asked if they were lt1 or 4. i knew he had plenty of experience then. any way, his dad has been doing port/polish jobs for almost 50 years, and he has about 20 yrs experience. he's in burlington. if you're not from the area, look into local websites and car clubs, go to another mech. and see if they know anyone (other than that idiot) who can do machine work. if you dont trust anyone, send them off to some of the site supporters on here.
And yeah, I'll agree with all of you that this dude didn't know anything about LT1's or car performance or much of anything for that matter. When I walked in there and started asking him about his work, he asked me, "So.. what do you drive? A Honda... something?" Needless to say, I was pretty
about his small-minded stereotypical judgements.But the machinist did bring up an interesting concept though. If you took the LS1 heads and bolted them onto the LT1, would you really make more power than either? I've been talking to a friend of mine who's an all around car guru, and this "hybrid" theory seems pretty possible. For example, my friend drives a Civic DX, so he's pretty familiar what you can do with them, and if you bolt on the stronger EX VTEC heads onto the DX engine, you'll make more power than either of them. Is this possible with the LT1-LS1?
05-04-2005, 06:17 PM
#16
well hes only right about the porting and polishing not giving the power your looking for. youd need a cam along with that porting and polishing. other than that he is just plain wrong.
05-04-2005, 09:09 PM
#19
I live about an hour or so east of you, I have spoken to a few machine shops but not really about porting. I could point yuou at some more competent one out this way though. For your goals I would really suggest you just consider shipping your heads to LE, his prices are so reasonable and results so well proven that it just makes the most sense, he can help you with the cam too if you want. When it is done come on out to WIR.
05-04-2005, 11:25 PM
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Originally Posted by 96capricemgr
I live about an hour or so east of you, I have spoken to a few machine shops but not really about porting. I could point yuou at some more competent one out this way though. For your goals I would really suggest you just consider shipping your heads to LE, his prices are so reasonable and results so well proven that it just makes the most sense, he can help you with the cam too if you want. When it is done come on out to WIR.
I guess I only posted this because the dude contrasted everything I knew so far (and I don't know a lot, to be honest) and being as how he's worked with cylinder heads all his life.. I was just curious as to if anything he said had any truth to it.
But thanks for your info guys
I'll be sure to stay away from him.