What Do I need to break 11's?!
06-13-2005, 11:16 AM
#41
Originally Posted by pntballty
Thanks for the numbers. I know flow benches are a little off but they should be pretty close.
So how much do you have your heads total? 800 for porting, still gotta get valves,springs,retainers,seals,locks etc. Well over a thousand i would say, 1300 maybe? Did you assmble them? If not there is more money right there.
Dont take these questions as insults.
Tyler
So how much do you have your heads total? 800 for porting, still gotta get valves,springs,retainers,seals,locks etc. Well over a thousand i would say, 1300 maybe? Did you assmble them? If not there is more money right there.
Dont take these questions as insults.
Tyler
06-13-2005, 12:32 PM
#42
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Originally Posted by Quickshotkimber
I'm sure that I had 1300 in them by the time that they were decked and I bought very good parts. He set them up for free.
My LE stage 3 heads flow 273 at .500, and a little over 280 at .600, i know peak flow numbers dont mean everything swirl, velocity, chamber size etc play very large roles.
I guess the point im trying to prove is it looks like Lloyds heads are flowing better than yours, for a tad bit more money maybe even the same after all the parts.
Like i said not trying to start a fight.
Sorry for the hijack
Tyler
06-13-2005, 04:33 PM
#43
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Originally Posted by pntballty
Ok, first off let me say very nice times you are running. Not trying to knock you or any of your parts.
My LE stage 3 heads flow 273 at .500, and a little over 280 at .600, i know peak flow numbers dont mean everything swirl, velocity, chamber size etc play very large roles.
I guess the point im trying to prove is it looks like Lloyds heads are flowing better than yours, for a tad bit more money maybe even the same after all the parts.
Like i said not trying to start a fight.
Sorry for the hijack
Tyler
My LE stage 3 heads flow 273 at .500, and a little over 280 at .600, i know peak flow numbers dont mean everything swirl, velocity, chamber size etc play very large roles.
I guess the point im trying to prove is it looks like Lloyds heads are flowing better than yours, for a tad bit more money maybe even the same after all the parts.
Like i said not trying to start a fight.
Sorry for the hijack
Tyler
We know a thing or two about porting heads and Quickshot is just trying to point out to those that may be considering buying heads/cams based on flow#'s or dyno#'s should perhaps listen to those that actually have cars that perform better than 95% of those on the street and track. Check out this thread to get an idea of the point he is trying to make:
http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?t=373142
Most of the internet gurus would tell you a small head can not run this fast...well Quickshot and Mr. Abare, an NHRA Champion, have proven otherwise. It's all about the toatal package...not just the flow#'s.
Ron
06-13-2005, 06:03 PM
#44
Originally Posted by pntballty
Ok, first off let me say very nice times you are running. Not trying to knock you or any of your parts.
My LE stage 3 heads flow 273 at .500, and a little over 280 at .600, i know peak flow numbers dont mean everything swirl, velocity, chamber size etc play very large roles.
I guess the point im trying to prove is it looks like Lloyds heads are flowing better than yours, for a tad bit more money maybe even the same after all the parts.
Like i said not trying to start a fight.
Sorry for the hijack
Tyler
My LE stage 3 heads flow 273 at .500, and a little over 280 at .600, i know peak flow numbers dont mean everything swirl, velocity, chamber size etc play very large roles.
I guess the point im trying to prove is it looks like Lloyds heads are flowing better than yours, for a tad bit more money maybe even the same after all the parts.
Like i said not trying to start a fight.
Sorry for the hijack
Tyler
Are they flowing better? I just saw a set of LE stage whatever heads that were set up for a stroker. They were flowed on the same bench as mine. So now lets compare apples to apples. The intake flowed well, 255cfm at .600 lift. The port was much larger than mine and went well through the rocker stud holes, unlike mine. The heads had 2.02 intake and 1.60 exhaust valves resting on STOCK SEATS! It would be more accurate to say that they were seated on the head itself than the seat. The valves had to be milled down to even do a proper valve job. I have stock size valves. The exhaust flowed 152 cfm at .500 lift and quit after that. Read that one more time, 152 cfm at .500.
My dinky little stock size valve was able to produce almost 200 cfm at .550. Niether was flowed with a pipe or a vacum cleaner. This was a superflow 600.
I think I'll stick with my sub LE heads and suggest that you step up to a stage 4 or 5 if you plan on staying near my bumper. I challenge any of you guys with stage 3 heads to bring it on. My little 250 cfm heads will be at least a half second ahead of you. Nothing personal, just tired of this new fad of dueling flow #s. There are other companies that are producing great quality heads that are overlooked because of this.
06-13-2005, 06:10 PM
#45
Originally Posted by AiSr
Tyler;
We know a thing or two about porting heads and Quickshot is just trying to point out to those that may be considering buying heads/cams based on flow#'s or dyno#'s should perhaps listen to those that actually have cars that perform better than 95% of those on the street and track. Check out this thread to get an idea of the point he is trying to make:
http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?t=373142
Most of the internet gurus would tell you a small head can not run this fast...well Quickshot and Mr. Abare, an NHRA Champion, have proven otherwise. It's all about the toatal package...not just the flow#'s.
Ron
We know a thing or two about porting heads and Quickshot is just trying to point out to those that may be considering buying heads/cams based on flow#'s or dyno#'s should perhaps listen to those that actually have cars that perform better than 95% of those on the street and track. Check out this thread to get an idea of the point he is trying to make:
http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?t=373142
Most of the internet gurus would tell you a small head can not run this fast...well Quickshot and Mr. Abare, an NHRA Champion, have proven otherwise. It's all about the toatal package...not just the flow#'s.
Ron
James
06-14-2005, 03:03 PM
#46
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Well i guess you guys ignored the fact that i said flow numbers dont mean everything 
I wasnt battling flow numbers, just using them as one point. I also gave you props on your times, and you guys act like i was attacking your times/head work. So im gonna leave it at that
Tyler
I wasnt battling flow numbers, just using them as one point. I also gave you props on your times, and you guys act like i was attacking your times/head work. So im gonna leave it at thatTyler
06-14-2005, 04:37 PM
#47
Originally Posted by pntballty
Well i guess you guys ignored the fact that i said flow numbers dont mean everything I wasnt battling flow numbers, just using them as one point. I also gave you props on your times, and you guys act like i was attacking your times/head work. So im gonna leave it at that
Tyler
I wasnt battling flow numbers, just using them as one point. I also gave you props on your times, and you guys act like i was attacking your times/head work. So im gonna leave it at thatTyler
06-14-2005, 05:23 PM
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Oh....stop the presses...hold everything...we must have a new N/A LT1 champ here. 3 Cheers for quickshot....hip hip STFU! You have a good running car and a good setup, that I will give you. But in no way do you have the best: performing heads, performing car, cheapest heads that are the fastest. So yeah it's great that your combo works....YOU ARE NOT THE BADDEST LT1 TO EVER RUN! So be humble and take your rant elsewhere.
06-14-2005, 06:15 PM
#50
Originally Posted by Jordan57
Oh....stop the presses...hold everything...we must have a new N/A LT1 champ here. 3 Cheers for quickshot....hip hip STFU! You have a good running car and a good setup, that I will give you. But in no way do you have the best: performing heads, performing car, cheapest heads that are the fastest. So yeah it's great that your combo works....YOU ARE NOT THE BADDEST LT1 TO EVER RUN! So be humble and take your rant elsewhere.
Congrats on throwing in the towel and making an *** of yourself. Never said I had the baddest, fastest, superduper LT1 around. I did succeed in showing that a bunch of guys talking about flow #s and bang for the buck have no idea what it takes to go fast. You are doomed to be yet another run of the mill LT1. Fine by me. Maybe someday you will start paying attention to people that put the #s up at the track and not a message board. Good luck with your stage gazillion heads. I'm sure that you will be like the rest of the gang, with no ETs in thier sig. There is nothing magical about being quick, it just isn't done via internet.
06-16-2005, 09:32 AM
#51
Originally Posted by Quickshotkimber
Are they flowing better? I just saw a set of LE stage whatever heads that were set up for a stroker. They were flowed on the same bench as mine. So now lets compare apples to apples. The intake flowed well, 255cfm at .600 lift. The port was much larger than mine and went well through the rocker stud holes, unlike mine. The heads had 2.02 intake and 1.60 exhaust valves resting on STOCK SEATS! It would be more accurate to say that they were seated on the head itself than the seat. The valves had to be milled down to even do a proper valve job. I have stock size valves. The exhaust flowed 152 cfm at .500 lift and quit after that. Read that one more time, 152 cfm at .500.
My dinky little stock size valve was able to produce almost 200 cfm at .550. Niether was flowed with a pipe or a vacum cleaner. This was a superflow 600.
I think I'll stick with my sub LE heads and suggest that you step up to a stage 4 or 5 if you plan on staying near my bumper. I challenge any of you guys with stage 3 heads to bring it on. My little 250 cfm heads will be at least a half second ahead of you. Nothing personal, just tired of this new fad of dueling flow #s. There are other companies that are producing great quality heads that are overlooked because of this.
My dinky little stock size valve was able to produce almost 200 cfm at .550. Niether was flowed with a pipe or a vacum cleaner. This was a superflow 600.
I think I'll stick with my sub LE heads and suggest that you step up to a stage 4 or 5 if you plan on staying near my bumper. I challenge any of you guys with stage 3 heads to bring it on. My little 250 cfm heads will be at least a half second ahead of you. Nothing personal, just tired of this new fad of dueling flow #s. There are other companies that are producing great quality heads that are overlooked because of this.
06-16-2005, 04:37 PM
#52
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Thread Starter
back to topic, please
So I've put together a better list of things I need to get me where I want to be:
First things first...I need to decide on a head/cam choice...
It's either LE3 package or worked stockers and a custom cam...
anyways, other than that dilemma..
-Pacesetter LT's into ORY and a cutout
-bigger injectors (36/42 lb)
-BMR Hardtop Boxed Subframe Connector ($169.95 pair)
-BMR Boxed control arms w/rubber-poly bushings ($149.95 pair)
-Drag Wheels and Tires (MT E/T dr's on Weld's)
-Remove: rear seats/A.I.R./air cond./EGR
all that a some good dyno tuning and I should be pretty quick (no spray either!)
So I've put together a better list of things I need to get me where I want to be:
First things first...I need to decide on a head/cam choice...
It's either LE3 package or worked stockers and a custom cam...
anyways, other than that dilemma..
-Pacesetter LT's into ORY and a cutout
-bigger injectors (36/42 lb)
-BMR Hardtop Boxed Subframe Connector ($169.95 pair)
-BMR Boxed control arms w/rubber-poly bushings ($149.95 pair)
-Drag Wheels and Tires (MT E/T dr's on Weld's)
-Remove: rear seats/A.I.R./air cond./EGR
all that a some good dyno tuning and I should be pretty quick (no spray either!)
Last edited by AKain; 06-17-2005 at 03:23 PM.
06-16-2005, 04:49 PM
#53
Originally Posted by AKain
back to topic, please
So I've put together a better list of things I need to get me where I want to be:
First things first...I need to decide on a head/cam choice...
It's either LE3 package or worked stockers and a custom cam...
anyways, other than that dilemma..
-Pacesetter LT's into ORY and a cutout
-bigger injectors (36/42 lb)
-BMR Boxed-SFC001-Hardtop Boxed Subframe Connector ($169.95 pair)
-BMR BCA002-Boxed control arms w/rubber-poly bushings ($149.95 pair)
-BMR Panhard Rod-PHR001-Standard ($99.95)
-Drag Wheels and Tires (MT E/T dr's on Weld's)
-Remove: rear seats/A.I.R./air cond./EGR
all that a some good dyno tuning and I should be pretty quick (no spray either!)
So I've put together a better list of things I need to get me where I want to be:
First things first...I need to decide on a head/cam choice...
It's either LE3 package or worked stockers and a custom cam...
anyways, other than that dilemma..
-Pacesetter LT's into ORY and a cutout
-bigger injectors (36/42 lb)
-BMR Boxed-SFC001-Hardtop Boxed Subframe Connector ($169.95 pair)
-BMR BCA002-Boxed control arms w/rubber-poly bushings ($149.95 pair)
-BMR Panhard Rod-PHR001-Standard ($99.95)
-Drag Wheels and Tires (MT E/T dr's on Weld's)
-Remove: rear seats/A.I.R./air cond./EGR
all that a some good dyno tuning and I should be pretty quick (no spray either!)
May also pick up a set of relocation brackets for the control arms.
I think you would probably be alright with the 36s if you are not going to spray it. Man, all that little stuff really adds up. You should be knocking down some tens with a little time.
06-17-2005, 12:07 AM
#54
James You know if you speak of anything thats associated with me ..the free advertising comes up... whats amazing is I dont advertise nor do i need to...let alone Eric... 
As far as loyds heads ,James has seen a set as well as I...Thats all I'll say on the subject other than the gentleman brought them to eric and never even bolted them to the block.Because he knew they were not where they could be..... And sorry to be blunt he was right... Also take note where LE is now vs 2 years ago.. granted heads may be lil better than then but what made all these cars that ran 12's magically start making 11's the norm...??? I know the answer personally to that and so do many others.. nobody from what I can tell has slammed,advertised, or whatever ...I think James may push a subject like I do sometimes as many others do when they are confident of certain things. Or has a strong belief in something..Loyd has decent heads for the money , There is other options however .... And no this isnt a advertisement Eric couldnt get a set of lt1 heads done if they dropped them off tommorow for atleast 6 months. For he has everything from 4 cyl stock heads to prostock heads for every make just about laying around needing to be done... And as far as cams ......wouldnt bother me one bit If I just ground cams for people I know and myself...I already had 3 cams hi-jacked not about to let that happen again... 
As far as loyds heads ,James has seen a set as well as I...Thats all I'll say on the subject other than the gentleman brought them to eric and never even bolted them to the block.Because he knew they were not where they could be..... And sorry to be blunt he was right... Also take note where LE is now vs 2 years ago.. granted heads may be lil better than then but what made all these cars that ran 12's magically start making 11's the norm...??? I know the answer personally to that and so do many others..
nobody from what I can tell has slammed,advertised, or whatever ...I think James may push a subject like I do sometimes as many others do when they are confident of certain things. Or has a strong belief in something..Loyd has decent heads for the money , There is other options however .... And no this isnt a advertisement Eric couldnt get a set of lt1 heads done if they dropped them off tommorow for atleast 6 months. For he has everything from 4 cyl stock heads to prostock heads for every make just about laying around needing to be done... And as far as cams ......wouldnt bother me one bit If I just ground cams for people I know and myself...I already had 3 cams hi-jacked not about to let that happen again...
06-17-2005, 03:08 PM
#55
I am not saying anything bad about free advertising or certainly not that you need it. What I mean by that is when you do something so well, like yourself your customers are quite proud and put the word out...thats a good thing. I don't know why this turned the way it did, it was about breaking into 11's...some people said Lloyd others said different places...Ai, EB...thats great to me everyone to know there options. I think quickshots ET's and Dyno numbers are great...especially with simple combo. I wouldn't badmouth you Joe, but things do change, and for the 2 times I have used Lloyd I am very satisfied, as are multiple other people. thats the point i was trying to get across, certainly not to start bickering. lol
To the thread starter...on your list for 11's you have panhard bar listed..thats really not necessary for straight line traction, and suspension geometry unless your car is or will be lowered. Also the boxed LCA's are fine if thats what you want...but If you go with them, its my preference to go with either poly-poly bushings, or spherical rod ends on one side and poly on the other, rather than the rubber-poly combo. I think you will be very happy with the pacesetter headers, they fit grea and the plug access is pretty damn good...in fact I just changed the plugs on my car and it took about 1/2 hour or so.
To the thread starter...on your list for 11's you have panhard bar listed..thats really not necessary for straight line traction, and suspension geometry unless your car is or will be lowered. Also the boxed LCA's are fine if thats what you want...but If you go with them, its my preference to go with either poly-poly bushings, or spherical rod ends on one side and poly on the other, rather than the rubber-poly combo. I think you will be very happy with the pacesetter headers, they fit grea and the plug access is pretty damn good...in fact I just changed the plugs on my car and it took about 1/2 hour or so.
06-17-2005, 03:25 PM
#56
Teching In
Thread Starter
the car won't be lowered and won't be roadcourse'd or auto-x'd, so panhard bar is out. i edited the list. does bmr have the poly/poly bushings?
the pacesetters/ORY/Cutout will be a giant upgrade from the MAC shorties
the pacesetters/ORY/Cutout will be a giant upgrade from the MAC shorties
06-17-2005, 03:57 PM
#57
Originally Posted by AKain
the car won't be lowered and won't be roadcourse'd or auto-x'd, so panhard bar is out. i edited the list. does bmr have the poly/poly bushings?
the pacesetters/ORY/Cutout will be a giant upgrade from the MAC shorties
the pacesetters/ORY/Cutout will be a giant upgrade from the MAC shorties
06-24-2005, 02:47 AM
#59
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While I seldom reply to any of this internet garbage, I really wanna start off by thanking Joe for helping me make a name for my self and get me some cams that worked real well for what they were intended for.
As far as "hi jacking" cams, that is crazy. I have about 8-10 degrees less duration at .050 in the current LE1 cam and your version. I have over 12 degrees of duration at .050 along with a lift difference of .030 to .050 in my current LE2 and LE3 cams compared to the ones you did for me. How in the world are these even similar, much less a copy?
As far as saving $$$ or anything like that, there is no truth to that. The reasons I changed to Bret for my cams was the lead time on getting the cams along with the fact that a few cams came in for the wrong year opti and 2 had the dowel pins in the wrong spot on the cam. All of these result in customers being "not happy".
One was for a freind and luckily we caught it while degreeing the cam and re clocked the optoi to make it all correct. More work than I would want a customer to go through. The other cam was for a customer with an LS1 that did not degree the cam and bent some valves. Of coarse I hooked him up with a new set of valves and re did the valve job for free while buying him a Comp cam and degreeing it for him. Just trying to make the customer happy.
Degreeing the cam is something that everyone should do anyway but what % of the people on this board (or any LT1/LS1 board) degrees their cam? Even if the cam is degreed, you should hopefully have evrything line up like it should be or at least within a degree or two.
Joe knows cams and makes some great power and the problems here where with the cam manufacturer and not anything that Joe did. It still remains that I needed some cams so I gave Bret a shot and have been happy with his work as well.
I did not want Joe to think the cams are coppies and Joe probably has tons of customers beating his door down to get a cam from him so if he wants to sell some cams, he has the customers.
Just thought I would make that clear. Joe is a great guy and a great cam designer but I am not too hip on someone repeatedly taking shots at me so I figured I would set the story straight on why there was a change in who I use for cams instead of "evidently" alot of BS being said.
Lloyd Elliott
As far as "hi jacking" cams, that is crazy. I have about 8-10 degrees less duration at .050 in the current LE1 cam and your version. I have over 12 degrees of duration at .050 along with a lift difference of .030 to .050 in my current LE2 and LE3 cams compared to the ones you did for me. How in the world are these even similar, much less a copy?
As far as saving $$$ or anything like that, there is no truth to that. The reasons I changed to Bret for my cams was the lead time on getting the cams along with the fact that a few cams came in for the wrong year opti and 2 had the dowel pins in the wrong spot on the cam. All of these result in customers being "not happy".
One was for a freind and luckily we caught it while degreeing the cam and re clocked the optoi to make it all correct. More work than I would want a customer to go through. The other cam was for a customer with an LS1 that did not degree the cam and bent some valves. Of coarse I hooked him up with a new set of valves and re did the valve job for free while buying him a Comp cam and degreeing it for him. Just trying to make the customer happy.
Degreeing the cam is something that everyone should do anyway but what % of the people on this board (or any LT1/LS1 board) degrees their cam? Even if the cam is degreed, you should hopefully have evrything line up like it should be or at least within a degree or two.
Joe knows cams and makes some great power and the problems here where with the cam manufacturer and not anything that Joe did. It still remains that I needed some cams so I gave Bret a shot and have been happy with his work as well.
I did not want Joe to think the cams are coppies and Joe probably has tons of customers beating his door down to get a cam from him so if he wants to sell some cams, he has the customers.
Just thought I would make that clear. Joe is a great guy and a great cam designer but I am not too hip on someone repeatedly taking shots at me so I figured I would set the story straight on why there was a change in who I use for cams instead of "evidently" alot of BS being said.
Lloyd Elliott
06-24-2005, 09:04 AM
#60
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Shooting for 11s with a stock bolt on car, with a 383 it should be relatively easier, just need another cam, it is too small for the motor. now heads, several good head porters and most have posted in the very thread.