Electric TurboCharger.
Electric TurboCharger. Oh you wanted to flame me. but this is a question
In my local racing group we have our own website and I see everyone who thinks about getting one get FLAMMED hardcore.... but why??
Considering the cost, and the potiental gains why is this such a bad idea?
I've considered the following. if a K&N airfilter flows more air which adds Hp/Tq and increase fuel econ.. then why wouldnt' these do the same??? I mean I think even a computer fan woudl increase all of the above .....
In my local racing group we have our own website and I see everyone who thinks about getting one get FLAMMED hardcore.... but why??
Considering the cost, and the potiental gains why is this such a bad idea?
I've considered the following. if a K&N airfilter flows more air which adds Hp/Tq and increase fuel econ.. then why wouldnt' these do the same??? I mean I think even a computer fan woudl increase all of the above .....
Originally Posted by Bawls
in all seriousness, I've heard of an electric powered turbo blocking more air then giving at higher RPMs. Find a way to fix that, and you might just be onto something.
so because there is so much matter (fan blades) that block airflow if they can not propell more or as much CFM as the engine at WOT then it's hendering it and therefore worthless?
has anyone installed one of these Elec. turbo's on a LT1 or LS1????
you might want to put on your flame suit................im sure there is a way to make this concept work but what you would get off of ebay or such is going to be human **** or equaly as useful. fill sure that if some guy on ebay thought of it so have many others and with whatever they went through it wasnt enough to market it through a reputible company. i believe it would be considered supercharger due to its placement and drive so when vortec or ati comes up with a electric turbo or whatever you want to call it then i would give it the time of day but untill then you just have electric ****. also like i said this is not a new concept and im yet to see one or hear of one being used............. but who knows
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Originally Posted by CONVERTED
so because there is so much matter (fan blades) that block airflow if they can not propell more or as much CFM as the engine at WOT then it's hendering it and therefore worthless?
Originally Posted by Bawls
exactly. In theory if you had some type of sensor that read TPS voltage, and increased the speed of the fan + the fan was able to suck and blow the CFM needed at WOT, I wouldnt see any reason why this wouldnt work. Not to mention absolutly no drag on engine mechanically.
right... and thats where I don't see why this idea isn't perfected yet..... I mean how hard can it really be??? the concept is simple but maybe the power issues is the problem... I dunno...
yes I agree it should be called a supercharger but for some reason they are commonly referred to as Turbochargers...
I wish I coudl find an F-body with one to use as a referrence. I fear spendnig such money to validate this.....
I'm just considering designing one from scratch and trying it out....
MORE IMPUT PLEASE...... I really want to get to the bottom of this theroy and why it's not inplace in a larger market.
What can one use to measure air moving into the T/B? if so what would I use for this and how much does it cost... or if my MAF can obtain that info how can I obtain that info.....
This is a noobish area for me.... and flame suit on!!!!
This is a noobish area for me.... and flame suit on!!!!
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Here is the reason those things CAN NOT work:
I go to a technical college. I have a friend who, as part of his graduation requirements, attempted to build a hydraulically driven supercharger to eliminate turbocharger plumbing and conventional supercharger belt driven craziness. The system's hydraulic fluid ran at a static 3000 psi. The goal was to use a simple on off switch to turn on the boost, and turn off the boost, point being that one could acheive boost at ANY RPM at ANY time. On paper, the concept worked great.
He was attempting to build this system into a 1g Eagle Talon TSi, which as we know is a 2L 4 cylinder engine. My friend used a ~10 HP hydraulic motor to drive the supercharger in an attempt to build 15 psi maximum boost. It failed. The motor was not strong enough. I wish I had pictures of the setup. It was huge and was purely experimental. I'm talking removal of hood, front bumper, part of the frame (!), and forget about keeping creature comforts such as A/C and P/S. Imagine building a similar system capable of supplying nearly 3 times that airflow!
Now, let's compare this 3000 psi, ~10 HP hydraulically driven system, and your 3" electric desk fan which you want to install in your car.... I think you see where I'm going with this. Like some of you have said, in theory it works great, but the simple fact is to get enough power to drive the compressor blade of a supercharger (thats what a turbo is anyways, an exhaust driven supercharger) using an ELECTRIC motor would take a battery system and electric motor so huge, that it would negate any gains and make the system completely unusable and impractical.
I go to a technical college. I have a friend who, as part of his graduation requirements, attempted to build a hydraulically driven supercharger to eliminate turbocharger plumbing and conventional supercharger belt driven craziness. The system's hydraulic fluid ran at a static 3000 psi. The goal was to use a simple on off switch to turn on the boost, and turn off the boost, point being that one could acheive boost at ANY RPM at ANY time. On paper, the concept worked great.
He was attempting to build this system into a 1g Eagle Talon TSi, which as we know is a 2L 4 cylinder engine. My friend used a ~10 HP hydraulic motor to drive the supercharger in an attempt to build 15 psi maximum boost. It failed. The motor was not strong enough. I wish I had pictures of the setup. It was huge and was purely experimental. I'm talking removal of hood, front bumper, part of the frame (!), and forget about keeping creature comforts such as A/C and P/S. Imagine building a similar system capable of supplying nearly 3 times that airflow!
Now, let's compare this 3000 psi, ~10 HP hydraulically driven system, and your 3" electric desk fan which you want to install in your car.... I think you see where I'm going with this. Like some of you have said, in theory it works great, but the simple fact is to get enough power to drive the compressor blade of a supercharger (thats what a turbo is anyways, an exhaust driven supercharger) using an ELECTRIC motor would take a battery system and electric motor so huge, that it would negate any gains and make the system completely unusable and impractical.
Last edited by EightBallWS6; Jul 5, 2005 at 09:31 PM.
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From: Charlotte, NC
there is NO electric motor that will be able to put out enough power to turn an impeller fast enough to make enough boost without
a: being EXTREMELY large and heavy
b: puting such a load on the chagring system that extra batterys and high output alts need to be added
but think about it. If it Was THAT cheep and THAT easy to do, it would be on every car ever produced and on every website that sells performance parts. It just doesn't work.
a: being EXTREMELY large and heavy
b: puting such a load on the chagring system that extra batterys and high output alts need to be added
but think about it. If it Was THAT cheep and THAT easy to do, it would be on every car ever produced and on every website that sells performance parts. It just doesn't work.
the last two posts covered. you'd need an electric motor that could turn the impeller at like tens of thousands of rpm. and it isn't spinning in a vacum either, it will be encountering resistance. no simple task.
Originally Posted by HBHRacing
there is NO electric motor that will be able to put out enough power to turn an impeller fast enough to make enough boost without
a: being EXTREMELY large and heavy
b: puting such a load on the chagring system that extra batterys and high output alts need to be added
but think about it. If it Was THAT cheep and THAT easy to do, it would be on every car ever produced and on every website that sells performance parts. It just doesn't work.
a: being EXTREMELY large and heavy
b: puting such a load on the chagring system that extra batterys and high output alts need to be added
but think about it. If it Was THAT cheep and THAT easy to do, it would be on every car ever produced and on every website that sells performance parts. It just doesn't work.
oh i understand what you are saying... I've heard it takes bout 40% of an engines power to power a supercharger. so i'm sure my finger could stop a fan blade but not likely my harmonic balancer. So we agree on that.. but what i'm referring to is not to produce "boost" but to propell air into my T/B..
THink about how an engine inhales air... a K&N airfilter makes it easier by reducing the restriction of airflow... So if you put a electric turbo/supercharger (ETC) would this not help air flow???
It was stated above earlier that these lack the ability to keep at at high RPM's aka WOT.
So forget the idea of boost with these as I have but can a powergain be found in these??? Can fuel econ be increased by these?
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not to be rude, but if you don't even know about your MAF then why do you think your common sense would be better than the actual knowledge of others??
like i said, not to be rude, but just because something seems simple, doesn't mean it is.
like i said, not to be rude, but just because something seems simple, doesn't mean it is.
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From: Charlotte, NC
Why? you want to intruduce air into your motor? Thats exactly what the motor does. It will take what it needs. The WHOLE idea of a turbo and supercharger is to do what a motor itself can not, thats to compress the air density. Thats why it's called FORCED induction. No force=no gain. All you will do is introduce a restiction into the system and look damned silly doing it.
Originally Posted by RoAdRaGe912
not to be rude, but if you don't even know about your MAF then why do you think your common sense would be better than the actual knowledge of others??
like i said, not to be rude, but just because something seems simple, doesn't mean it is.
like i said, not to be rude, but just because something seems simple, doesn't mean it is.
I understand how a MAF works but i'm not sure it will work for the application i need it too... And if so how to translate that info so that i can work with it. Also I don't know how to obtain that info from my MAF.... but i'm willing to learn for the sake of solving this....
Originally Posted by HBHRacing
Why? you want to intruduce air into your motor? Thats exactly what the motor does. It will take what it needs. The WHOLE idea of a turbo and supercharger is to do what a motor itself can not, thats to compress the air density. Thats why it's called FORCED induction. No force=no gain. All you will do is introduce a restiction into the system and look damned silly doing it.
I was looking at it as AIR on Demand. by helping pull air into the induction system it would allow the engine to work more effientally...
heres an example from another "off ball" invention. My buddy bought a T/B spacer for his 2.4L eclipse.. it wasn't just a spacer but it also had groves cut in it to provide a tornade like effect... it's different than those stainless steel fixed object you put in your intake... I'm sure you've heard about them... anywho... immediatly after it installed it started tossing codes at the maf.. had it dynoed for giggles and gained 4 FWHP... it wasn't a dyno tune just a dyno run... so the belief it's helping the engine inhale air more effiently...
I know i'm sounding like a true ricer but i'm trying to gain as much out of this as possible. I have no intentions of putting on of these on my car. but I want know why no one else would put on there car... We have this neon that is all rice and everyone makes fun of him for having an ETC on his car but he says he noticed the gain.
So keep it rolling and i will keep playing the other field...
Originally Posted by HBHRacing
hey, if you want to slow your car down thats fine with all of us. We could care less. but why you ignor logic is beyond me. you want Air on demand? Press the gas pedal.
Again i'm not after the idea of boosting a car but to see why this would not increase power at all......
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From: Charlotte, NC
I explaned that. The motor will only take the air that it needs. The ONLY way to improve that is to open up and un restrict the air path or to FORCE air GREATER then the amount that it already flows into it. This will do neither.