Tireburnin

iTrader: (42)

Now your just drifting toward exageration, and making claims that are pretty far out in left field.

You also have this lustful relationship with behive springs...no need get into arguments over which is better or worse, but you seem to have an insurmountable complex about them. My 977s are doing just fine...as are my valves and vacume.

If behives, giant valves, titanium retainers, and BRE cams are so much better, why aren't LE40.78974 cars running as well as Ai cars? Count off LE 10 second cars...9 second cars...hell even cars under 11.5 if you need them.

PS: Don't bring up dirty laundry unless you want yours aired out too. Anyone that has visted cz28.com knows that you aren't a prodical son, free of problems and unhappy customers. Professional ethics play a big part in representing a company.

And on a side note, any LE/BRE customers in California? Hopefully at least an LE4.9 setup that could run an Ai car.

BigKap94z

iTrader: (47)

Your car hasn't even made it down the track yet without breaking and your busting on BRE and Lloyd. I have no problem at all with Ai either but you are going alittle far...in fact I think you have a whitish substance on your lips. I understand you think Ai is the best, and thats just dandy but you bust on people like you have some experiene with there product.

SStrokerAce

iTrader: (2)

In the first setup I mentioned, I even e-mailed the guys at Ai to ask them about the back cut they use on their valves because I didn't want to change that when I put the new valves in the motor. I ended up just using our optical comparitor to get the angle so I could duplicate that on the valves I was putting in the heads. At that time even Phil said that he hoped I could help the guy out because they couldn't figure out the problems that he had.

Started here.... (before bent valves)

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/phot...95dyno-med.jpg

Ended up here...

http://www.richards-enterprises.net/host/Dyno1.jpg

My bad it was only 23rwhp at peak and 50hp @ 6700rpm.

BTW if you really think your valvesprings have anything to do with your idle vacuum then maybe you should do a little more reading and less posting.

The other instance was in California for what it's worth and the dyno tests were done at Westech, he was still using the 977 Comp springs that Ai put on his AFR heads (288cfm @ .650) and is now looking to go to the beehives to get a little more power over 6000rpm since both the guys at Westech and I agreed that more valve control would help him make more power there.

If you call one guy who was pissed off at me because I didn't take back his broken valve seals a dissatisfied customer, you should know the whole story. Any other guy over there that jumps on my nuts isin't a customer of mine.... I would have never aired this valvetrain info out if Ron didn't jump on my case and say I have no leg to stand on in comparing his setups to others. Obviously I do.

FWIW I have a number of guys in the 9's, 10's etc... with small blocks from the west coast all the way to Sweeden. I just dont push everyone of them out in the publics face because I need attention. Then again Lloyd is the same way, both of us have always let our customers do the talking.

As for you I'll just agree with what BigKap94z said, maybe you should get your car down the track before you do the leg humping.

Bret

METALBEAST

iTrader: (1)

What is the point of all the mudslinging? This is ******* ridiculuous to tell you the truth. There is no reason to bash one side or the other. Keep your opinions to yourself.

AiSr

Not hardly, the problems Ty had were the customers doing. We did not spec the camshaft, he ran what he wanted. I'm amazed you'd be foolish enough to actually post complete fabrications... though I guess I shouldn't be, most everything else you put up is ficticious.

So the same $ that got him ~160hp with us bought him well under a 3rd of that gain from you, not bad.


Don't mention the guy's engine was spinning bearings on the dyno pull with the original cam. Think that'd knock the #'s down slightly?



Those who can, do, those who can't... well welcome to the internet. I'm glad you have the fastest cars on the internet from the west coast to sweden. If any ever end up coming within a second of our cars, we'd love to line up and bump'em off. I do of course mean physically race the cars at the race track, which you obviously have an aversion to for some reason. I'm sure it isn't that the cars don't run/exist like the racing engines you're busy building between powernaps and breaks from your internet throne. Until then, do yourself a favor and let your "product" sell on it's own merit as opposed to having to make up lies about the people kicking your *** up and down the street & track .

Take Care,

-Phil

BigKap94z

iTrader: (47)

I must say this goes a long way to show how professional your business is. I for one can't believe you would come on here and say the things you say. I don't see where Bret was actually bashing you, I see him giving examples of the work he said he has fixed of yours. i did however see him giving you props for your ability to port cylinder heads. You are very arrogant and refuse to admit any mistakes, sorry Phil Nobody is perfect and niether are you. I must say that it wasn't only your prices that turned me away from utilizing your services, it was your "holier than thou" attitude. This may be off topic but I feel the need to let you know how I feel about you and your company. This is the reason i will continue to go elsewhere, as will various people I know. You can also say whatever you want about Bret, anybody that has talked to him or had the experience of working with him would know that he is an honest person and knows his ****. Also his ego would not get in the way of his business, and never bash someone to get more business. In this scenario he is one step higher than you and most definately a better person to deal with. If you would like to know Bret does have a hand in building my car, and i can't think of any other person i would rather have helping me out. When I was looking to step up from the LE heads I previously had Bret told me to choose whoever I felt comfortable with, he had no bad words about you, he just told me the Valvetrain components I would need to match the cam. I chose neither you or LE, but rather somebody else. I look forward to racing some of your combo's and we'll just have to see who kicks whose ***.

SStrokerAce

iTrader: (2)

To start off guys, I'm sorry for this being a pissing contest but I'm just backing up my claims after being attacked earlier and then again.

Considering you put the valvesprings on the head, maybe you should have installed something on there that could handle the cam he was installing in the motor? Or because he's not running your stuff it doesn't matter? It would have saved some money on valves for the guy and saved him time and aggrivation by paying attention to the details of the oh so meaningless valvetrain.

As for the $$$ per HP, Gotta figure that he spent $1500+ with you and then around $500 here to fix what you could have prevented and then the cost of a camshaft. I don't see how a set of heads makes 160hp more at the tires, standard bolt on LT1's do around 300rwhp, you got him 90hp (along with a 236/242 camshaft) and broken parts. Which one is actually a better gain for the money? Not to mention every HP costs more. $22 Hp per $ vs. $15 Hp per $

Yeah but it didn't spin that bearing on the pump, it was on the street for a while and that's where he noticed his problem of no vacuum for his brakes. Which was really important to him. The numbers weren't taken down by a spun bearing, just a bad choice of camshaft.

Phil,

I'm glad your great at talking smack, seems that must be a learned family trait, at least we know where you get it from. I'm gald you have one really fast car to talk up, good job. The funny thing is that YOU have to announce to the world that you have A car that runs XX.XX (which BTW is fast I applaud you for that and have before) but it's rather classless in my book since I would just let the customer do it himself.

Either way this was good entertainment for me today. Thanks.

Bret

SS MPSTR

iTrader: (1)

Boo Hoo!

There is clearly more to this than what is contained in this thread...and your opinions of your experience with (and subsequent bashing of) AI is certainly not shared by very many...in fact, yours is the first comment I've seen of this type.

While you're certainly entitled to your opinion about a company based on your own direct experiences, you need to also realize that Phil 'knows his ****' too, contrary to your suggestion otherwise. Your perceived 'pompousness' of him does not make what he offers any less significant. As far as your assertion that Phil not admitting mistakes is just pure bullshit - you don't know him.

You, I nor anyone else, other than those directly involved with said customer (the one BRE supposedly fixed the valvetrain components for AI), have any direct knowledge of the details of the situation, and it sounds like someone may not have been as forthright with the facts as they should have been when relaying the information. There are two sides to every story and this one was presented with less-than objective or incomplete information...it's not the first time it's happened and likely not the last.

If you dream for a minute that some of these guys don't have their ego into their work, you're in for a surprise. They all do.

BigKap94z

iTrader: (47)

I never said or implied that Phil or Ron don't know what they are talking about. I in no way bashed them either. I simply stated my conclusions AFTER trying to deal with them. There are 2 sides to every story, but Bret didn't come out swinging, Phil did. He didn't ask questions, he just said that Bret was lying. I have talked to Ty, so I have heard the story. I don't post about things of which i know nothing about...its not my nature. I understand that there are many people very happy with Ai, and i am not worried about that. This is a hobby for me, and i was very interested and intrigued by Ai's work...that is why I was considering using them. Don't get me wrong I do think they do good work. However I didn't like the tone of the response given, and i am very tired of coming on here and having totally biased opinions on products that haven't been used. Confidence in a product and a good experience is one thing, cockiness, and arrogance is another. Every head porter/best thread ends up the same way. I posted before about my very goood experience with LE, and Bret, and I felt the need to give my impressions of Ai as well, since everyone else did too. There is no need to take it personal, because i am sure they have plenty of customers keeping them busy. Could have been another $2295 in their pockets from me thats all i was saying.

Tell me SS MPSTR: you ever get tired of ego's on here? i seem to think it gets in the way of the people trying to get the knowledge they originally sought after.

SS MPSTR

iTrader: (1)

Being egocentric in this business (and any for that matter where what you produce is going to be talked about and compared in relatively tight circles) is good for it. What you see in most cases is the constant development of the process, and ultimately, a better and better end product.

Tireburnin

iTrader: (42)

You kill me,

My best time (broken) is still better than half of the LE cars that post results. My car has no problem backing up anything I say. Don't confuse sorting out problems with anything other than that.

Tireburnin

iTrader: (42)

I understand reading comprehension isn't everyone's strong points, but I'll try and draw a map.

I wasn't relating valve springs to idle vacume. You posted about superior cams (idle vacume) and the inferiority of selected parts (977 and X000 series valves). Two totally different items that were only related by the list format I chose to express them in.

Sorry you couldn't follow along.

As for other pissed off customers, I'm not sure they were pissed but, didn't Dave88LX have trouble with the BRE motor he bought? As I understood it someone made a trip to get it running correctly? Isn't this one of your examples of seeing Ai work?

PS: Find an LE/BRE customer that drag races...maybe I could find time between leg humping to get my car "down the track" and we could race.

Jordan57

still gotta go with the converted heads, best bang for the buck from the results i've seen. somebody prove me wrong....

asudecat

iTrader: (11)

As for other pissed off customers, I'm not sure they were pissed but, didn't Dave88LX have trouble with the BRE motor he bought? As I understood it someone made a trip to get it running correctly? Isn't this one of your examples of seeing Ai work?





I believe Daves Problems are the notorious Comp R lifters.

BigKap94z

iTrader: (47)

What is your best time if you don't mind me asking? i am not trying to start anything here. When i see some questionable comments being made about another individual without any actual proof, i do a little looking around including old posts and I also talk to various people through PM's, IM's, etc. I wasn't really sure you had anything to brag about, or even the reason to bust on other people. i have no problem with you preaching about a good experience with a vendor like Ai, i have heard it before. it seems however, that every chance you get your jamming it down peoples throat of how much better one product is than another when i am almost positive YOU personally haven't done any testing back to back. Ai/LE/BRE all setup different combinations for the customer, with instructions given by the customer of what they want out of there mods, etc. Do you honestly think there would be so many satisfied people with LE/BRE if they didn't give them exactly what they were looking for. You personally may look at someone elses car and say, oh well thats not as fast as mine, etc....but you are on the outside looking in. They are satisfied because they got what they wanted. You are satisfied because Ai gave you what You wanted. I am very confident that a customer could go to Ai, LE, Bret, Joe O, Eric B, and various others, tell them what they want, and how they want it and all would perform relatively close...i am also sure that they would all be different combo's some very different. You want people to believe that Ai is the only one out there to do anythign right, and thats just not the case. Go ahead tell everyone what a good experience you had, thats what people need to hear, and if you personally have a bad experience with somebody please do share that as well. Rant=off. About that challenge, you race anywhere else besides CA? Its not worth my time to come all the way out there but I guess we could internet race some more, but your gonna at least have to post some times at some point.

BTW: Dave88LX had trouble with Lifters and By Bret admittance the head studs had some issues sealing as well. You don't think that it says something about Brets character that he offered to come down and fix it for him? Around Daves schedule as well. There may be a tad more to this story but I am just going by what Dave and Bret have actually said rather than making my own conclusions.

Tireburnin

iTrader: (42)

Shame on you for making assumptions...I have parts from both LE and Ai on the car. I have an intake ported by LE and heads by Ai.

I can show you some great pictures of an LE porting job and an Ai port job (from my PERSONAL parts) if you'd like...but it won't get us anywhere new.

As for braging, we only have 1/8 mile tracks now that our local 1/4 has closed down. My 1/8th times convert to mid 11's (1.83 60) with all of the trans and driveline problems. I could list all of the problems that kept the car from making a good clean pass, but it doesn't matter to this argument as it isn't about me. My nitrous motor will run what it was setup to run...I'm not worried about that.

Feel free to PM me about my setup (current) and or for updates if you'd like. I should have new numbers once the transmission comes back from the shop, and my new converter comes in. I hope you can wait the whole month or two

I might even make a nitrous pass if i can get a transmission that holds up for an entire pass.

BigKap94z

iTrader: (47)

I'll PM you after work for details.

Quickshotkimber

iTrader: (1)

Should have a comparison shortly for you guys. My car should be running very soon with my new AI heads. They are the street/strip head with the basic dual springs and steel retainers. Hope to have it tuned and some ETs in a week or so.

SStrokerAce

iTrader: (2)

Just to clear up a misunderstanding the boys at Ai and I have had about something I said in this thread.

I'm glad you finally posted this, because I have been privately and publicly slammed by you and your son for comparing apples to apples and now I have a hard number from you to give you a example.

So to wrap that all up the major parts we are talking about in the cost are:

Port work and Valve Job
Deck Milling (plus obviously your intake flange milling which you deem needed)
Assembly
Ferrea 6000 series 2.00"/1.56" valves
Comp 26918 "beehive" springs
Camshaft

Pretty much what Lloyd considers to be a LE2 setup, so the comments about me making things up and half truths aren't really that now are they?

I was comparing the full package and yes I was a tad bit high when you compare suppling head cores to each company on this setup. Sorry about that, this is what I heard from a customer in conversation concerning the LE3 setup (2.055/1.600 valves, new valve seats, ti retainers, beehives, Ferrea 6000 series valves etc...) so who knows if i'm right or wrong about that yet?

Bret

P.S. asudecat... Funny I didn't meet you at Tony's shop, at Daves place OR out on the town, but I can give you personal directions over to Dave's house. Tireburnin, Seeing as though I drove there from NY (25 hours) to figure out the issue with the motor and fix it, then stay for the rest of the week (since it took me about 3 hours to fix, something Dave probably could have done himself since he's a smart cookie).... And Yes, this is one of the times I've seen some Ai stuff myself. I didn't agree with the cam choice in his motor, but that's what Dave wanted to do and all my job was is to make sure the motor was mechaincally sound so that it would run with the given parts. Either way I don't mind helping out customers and going on a road trip is not a bad way to spend a few days. I can't believe you can try and make that a NEGATIVE towards me an my service, that's laughable. Maybe you should ask Dave his thoughts.

MadBill

Err.. Not meaning to blunder into the line of fire here, but as an LTx knowledgenewbie, I thought the AFR heads were set up for the LT4 manifold (pn 12550630) which Scoggin Dickie says is no longer available. We need to replace cracked ported iron heads on a 396 stroker LT1 and were torn between AFR and Trickflow. We are poised to go with the latter for this reason. Now if there's a simple way to match up the stock LT1 manifold, or...? we're onit!