What are your guys thoughts on trickflow LT1 heads?
12-25-2005, 10:54 PM
#21
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As far as amount of CNC work,i was just curious,for people to have flow/pricing options. If i were to do it i would go all out for my application and go with a custom grind for that particular head flow.
I say CNC because,with a skilled programmer who is familiar with these castings in particular,that would create the best mid/max CFM flow as well as the most even flow balance from cyl to cyl. You could say the same for someone porting by hand,definately only as good as the user by hand for sure.
If you were spending SERIOUS money on a set of heads, why wouldn't you want the accuracy of a CNC port job compared to doing it by eye/hand? I also realize that even after CNC,some hand work is needed in some situations.
As far as valve size is that your personal experience/fact with these? Cuz you said "should" i wasn't sure if you were guessing or not. I'm just tryin to get some hard flow#'s and valve sizes from someone who had this done or does this work.
I say CNC because,with a skilled programmer who is familiar with these castings in particular,that would create the best mid/max CFM flow as well as the most even flow balance from cyl to cyl. You could say the same for someone porting by hand,definately only as good as the user by hand for sure.
If you were spending SERIOUS money on a set of heads, why wouldn't you want the accuracy of a CNC port job compared to doing it by eye/hand? I also realize that even after CNC,some hand work is needed in some situations.
As far as valve size is that your personal experience/fact with these? Cuz you said "should" i wasn't sure if you were guessing or not. I'm just tryin to get some hard flow#'s and valve sizes from someone who had this done or does this work.
12-26-2005, 06:50 PM
#22
Yes that's professional experinece with these castings on the valve size. TFS said a 2.055 is as big as you want to go on the stock seats and I have seen 2.08 valves fit in there as well.
My opinion on CNC programs and head castings is this. CNC programs work the best on a head casting that is made to be CNC ported, then the port will clean up everytime on the castings and be exactly right. Hand porting is prefered to me because the porter can put the best port in that set of castings you are going to get.
You would be amazed to the shape and flow consistancy in a good hand ported port. You would also be amazed to the inconsitancy of some CNC jobs. I'm not saying I'm against CNC porting, but it all depends if that program fits your application AND that program is done well. A CNC machine doesn't mean accuracy it means automation.
Bret
My opinion on CNC programs and head castings is this. CNC programs work the best on a head casting that is made to be CNC ported, then the port will clean up everytime on the castings and be exactly right. Hand porting is prefered to me because the porter can put the best port in that set of castings you are going to get.
You would be amazed to the shape and flow consistancy in a good hand ported port. You would also be amazed to the inconsitancy of some CNC jobs. I'm not saying I'm against CNC porting, but it all depends if that program fits your application AND that program is done well. A CNC machine doesn't mean accuracy it means automation.
Bret
12-26-2005, 07:27 PM
#23
Edelbrock makes lots of good parts for old school stuff, latemodel stuff like LT1 on up the OEMs left less room for improvement, initially Edelbrock tried and failed to deliver a LT1 heads/intake package and scrapped the idea, demand continued for heads mostly due the igorance of the masses on just how good a head and staerting point the stock castings were. So now Edelbrock offers a head, it is very likely based on their "Vortec" heads which get bad reviews. I say that because the GM Vortec heads are based on the iron LT1 heads so Vortecs and LT1s share a lot to begin with.
They got 78hp going from stock to heads/cam/headers and you know a dyno tune as well, you know they did their research and compared them to the early and worst LT1 heads too as for marketting purposes that is the right thing to do.
I know I come of as anti-Edelbrock but I had one of the Performer intakes on a stock 305 in a 4X4 and it made a signifigant improvement.
AI offers CNCed Trickflows and I will agree with Bret that CNC is only as good as the guy that did the copied porting and setup. I do wooodworking and tell you what you get a sloppy guy on the CNC and I could deliver you something better cut on a bandsaw than he gives you with that expensive machine. Don't think you will find any accusations of less than perfect setup bu AI though, seems like they do their thing well, and Lloyd seems to offer good results with his handporting, him grinding by hand doesn't mean it is sloppy or inconsistent.
They got 78hp going from stock to heads/cam/headers and you know a dyno tune as well, you know they did their research and compared them to the early and worst LT1 heads too as for marketting purposes that is the right thing to do.
I know I come of as anti-Edelbrock but I had one of the Performer intakes on a stock 305 in a 4X4 and it made a signifigant improvement.
AI offers CNCed Trickflows and I will agree with Bret that CNC is only as good as the guy that did the copied porting and setup. I do wooodworking and tell you what you get a sloppy guy on the CNC and I could deliver you something better cut on a bandsaw than he gives you with that expensive machine. Don't think you will find any accusations of less than perfect setup bu AI though, seems like they do their thing well, and Lloyd seems to offer good results with his handporting, him grinding by hand doesn't mean it is sloppy or inconsistent.
12-27-2005, 01:01 AM
#24
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Thanks bret,did they do that (2.08) with the stock seat? I can see your point on CNC'n
and i agree. My friend had a set of LS1 5.3 heads CNC'd and you could see on some of the ports where the bit didn't even touch the ports. The heads flow'd well across the board either way,but i can see what ur sayin. Who would you reccomend,with all the heads you have had come across ur bench, does the best port work that you have seen. Also have you seen any of Eric Bradby's (EB porting) work?
96Capricemgr, I agree on the Edel heads. I personally can't see buying those unless you just wanted a decent inexpensive "stock" replacement style head. Those heads will collect alot of dust on their shelves i think. Don't get me wrong i love alot of Edel's stuff but,they dropped the ball on the LT1 castings. If they wanna sell a LTx style head fast they should come up with a Vic JR. racing style,i dunno why they didn't when they released the Performer LT1 head at the same time.
and i agree. My friend had a set of LS1 5.3 heads CNC'd and you could see on some of the ports where the bit didn't even touch the ports. The heads flow'd well across the board either way,but i can see what ur sayin. Who would you reccomend,with all the heads you have had come across ur bench, does the best port work that you have seen. Also have you seen any of Eric Bradby's (EB porting) work?
96Capricemgr, I agree on the Edel heads. I personally can't see buying those unless you just wanted a decent inexpensive "stock" replacement style head. Those heads will collect alot of dust on their shelves i think. Don't get me wrong i love alot of Edel's stuff but,they dropped the ball on the LT1 castings. If they wanna sell a LTx style head fast they should come up with a Vic JR. racing style,i dunno why they didn't when they released the Performer LT1 head at the same time.
12-27-2005, 01:52 AM
#26
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Bret,do you know how to get in touch with him?(Larry Meaux) What was it about the quality of his work that stands out to you,what do you personally "look" for when your lookin at someone elses work?
Thanks
Thanks
12-27-2005, 11:34 AM
#27
Yes I do, but he's usually really busy and things take some time from him.
If you are looking for a set of heads done by him I have a set in the shop that are for sale that a customer can't use anymore because his car got jacked. Get a hold of me and I can give you a better run down on them.
28 NHRA national records plus his knowledge on cylinder heads stands out to me the most, I don't think I've learned more about heads and the details from anyone else.
What I look for in heads is somewhat in the details, somewhat on the bench and I'm not talking about raw flow numbers. The sound of the port, what it does as you open the valve more and more (looking for turbulence), the velocity speed in certain areas and a few other things.
Bret
If you are looking for a set of heads done by him I have a set in the shop that are for sale that a customer can't use anymore because his car got jacked. Get a hold of me and I can give you a better run down on them.
28 NHRA national records plus his knowledge on cylinder heads stands out to me the most, I don't think I've learned more about heads and the details from anyone else.
What I look for in heads is somewhat in the details, somewhat on the bench and I'm not talking about raw flow numbers. The sound of the port, what it does as you open the valve more and more (looking for turbulence), the velocity speed in certain areas and a few other things.
Bret
12-27-2005, 12:24 PM
#28
I agree that Larry Meaux is one of the best porters around. His shop is only about 40miles from my house but we could never get in touch with him and it sometimes takes customers 6mos. to 1yr. to get your parts back. I don't know about you guys but I want my stuff done within a months time. That is why I deal with Lloyd Elliott who is also a very good head/intake porter. Later Clint
