alternitive fuel
Staging Lane
Joined: Jun 2007
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From: detroit
sunoco had it posted as 105 octane depends where you go. #24 kinda small for gas even #30 would be better. but thatl take programming. gennerally alc does provide less range itl take programmin and more compression to get it back which leads to more hp it all depends on your setup. I get away with more timing advance on 105 e85 than 110 turbo blue. alc has different burning charicteristics {cleaner chambers} than gas octane is not the only rating hextane pentane etc.
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From: Decatur, TN (N-W of Athens)
Well, that's probably just Sunoco's RACE E85. They have normal octane E85: 87-93oc
Read your sig. There's ways to store dual programs/tunes. I think moats.net even has a switcher board where you can flip between two via a toggle-switch. I know they have double-size EPROMS that work, but I don't know exactly how to specifically access the different tunes.
Read your sig. There's ways to store dual programs/tunes. I think moats.net even has a switcher board where you can flip between two via a toggle-switch. I know they have double-size EPROMS that work, but I don't know exactly how to specifically access the different tunes.
From playing with Alcohol Motors in the past, it take about twice the alcohol to get the same power out put as gas, but like others have mentioned you have to get the compression up to take advantage of the characteristics of Alcohol. More advance and higher compression is a mush to get to run decently.
The reason your friend is losing mileage is due to the low compression ratio and thus lower effiency of the motor on Alcohol. A bump in compression and more advance will yield a slight bump in mileage, but the cost savings might not pan out as the volume used comes back into the equation.
Another big benefit to alcohol motors is they run cooler so the cooling system size and weight can be reduced for a given power level.
In all I don't think switching a gas motor to alc is just a tune issue, but a complete picture change.
The reason your friend is losing mileage is due to the low compression ratio and thus lower effiency of the motor on Alcohol. A bump in compression and more advance will yield a slight bump in mileage, but the cost savings might not pan out as the volume used comes back into the equation.
Another big benefit to alcohol motors is they run cooler so the cooling system size and weight can be reduced for a given power level.
In all I don't think switching a gas motor to alc is just a tune issue, but a complete picture change.
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From: Decatur, TN (N-W of Athens)
Originally Posted by 95ttoplt1
From playing with Alcohol Motors in the past, it take about twice the alcohol to get the same power out put as gas, but like others have mentioned you have to get the compression up to take advantage of the characteristics of Alcohol. More advance and higher compression is a mush to get to run decently.
The reason your friend is losing mileage is due to the low compression ratio and thus lower effiency of the motor on Alcohol. A bump in compression and more advance will yield a slight bump in mileage, but the cost savings might not pan out as the volume used comes back into the equation.
Another big benefit to alcohol motors is they run cooler so the cooling system size and weight can be reduced for a given power level.
In all I don't think switching a gas motor to alc is just a tune issue, but a complete picture change.
The reason your friend is losing mileage is due to the low compression ratio and thus lower effiency of the motor on Alcohol. A bump in compression and more advance will yield a slight bump in mileage, but the cost savings might not pan out as the volume used comes back into the equation.
Another big benefit to alcohol motors is they run cooler so the cooling system size and weight can be reduced for a given power level.
In all I don't think switching a gas motor to alc is just a tune issue, but a complete picture change.
Something I've been saying for awhile now, is that you may get the price of gas down by using E85, but you won't make the same power as you do, and won't get the same gas mileage since you'll have to use more gas to make the same power. Seems I may have been a bit wrong (I'm assuming), but in the end was a right. It's a good solution, but you just need to use more to do the same job really. So unless the gas price is cut by 2/3rds, there's no real benefit.
Originally Posted by Formula350
That makes more sense to me now when you say it like that.
Something I've been saying for awhile now, is that you may get the price of gas down by using E85, but you won't make the same power as you do, and won't get the same gas mileage since you'll have to use more gas to make the same power. Seems I may have been a bit wrong (I'm assuming), but in the end was a right. It's a good solution, but you just need to use more to do the same job really. So unless the gas price is cut by 2/3rds, there's no real benefit.
Something I've been saying for awhile now, is that you may get the price of gas down by using E85, but you won't make the same power as you do, and won't get the same gas mileage since you'll have to use more gas to make the same power. Seems I may have been a bit wrong (I'm assuming), but in the end was a right. It's a good solution, but you just need to use more to do the same job really. So unless the gas price is cut by 2/3rds, there's no real benefit.
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From: Decatur, TN (N-W of Athens)
Originally Posted by 95ttoplt1
Exactley, and thats what I don't get. As the demand for ethanol goes up, and more grain is needed and is subsidized by the Gov't, the price of grain related foods is going to skyrocket.
http://english.people.com.cn/200706/...06_381386.html
E85 makes MORE power then premium gasoline, it just needs the compression and tune to take advantage of it.
Its higher octane - around 105. Higher octane gas has less energy potential then lower octane when compared directly. The benefit is that it resists detonation more, so you can run more compression and timing to make more power then on lower octane gasoline.
Without changing anything, higher octane gas will make you lose power. Many people dont know this, and that is when you see the 8:1CR imports swearing their cars run better on premium(with a bottle of AutoZone Octane Booster too of course
), even though they are making less horsepower 
. If it wasnt for the high compression of LT1s, we would make more power on regular then on premium. The 93 octane premium lets us boost compression even more, and advance the timing to make more power then possible on lower octane. That is 93 gasoline - can go even further on ~105 octane E85 .
A post comes to mind of someone converting their N/A LT4 setup to E85(replacing rubber parts like injector o-rings that contact fuel with ethanol safe versions), and gaining around 30 hp.
Not to mention besides being basically race fuel, it is cheaper to make and sell, burns cleaner(longer engine life), and made in the good old USA from crops that we already have a huge surplus of . Maybe in the future, instead of burning surplus crops to keep the prices from dropping too much and pissing off the farmers, we can use them as cheaper alternative fuel sorces 
Its higher octane - around 105. Higher octane gas has less energy potential then lower octane when compared directly. The benefit is that it resists detonation more, so you can run more compression and timing to make more power then on lower octane gasoline.
Without changing anything, higher octane gas will make you lose power. Many people dont know this, and that is when you see the 8:1CR imports swearing their cars run better on premium(with a bottle of AutoZone Octane Booster too of course
), even though they are making less horsepower . If it wasnt for the high compression of LT1s, we would make more power on regular then on premium. The 93 octane premium lets us boost compression even more, and advance the timing to make more power then possible on lower octane. That is 93 gasoline - can go even further on ~105 octane E85 .A post comes to mind of someone converting their N/A LT4 setup to E85(replacing rubber parts like injector o-rings that contact fuel with ethanol safe versions), and gaining around 30 hp.
Not to mention besides being basically race fuel, it is cheaper to make and sell, burns cleaner(longer engine life), and made in the good old USA from crops that we already have a huge surplus of
. Maybe in the future, instead of burning surplus crops to keep the prices from dropping too much and pissing off the farmers, we can use them as cheaper alternative fuel sorces Last edited by Puck; Jun 17, 2007 at 09:18 AM.
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Verdad Gallardo Staging Lane
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 75
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From: detroit
e85 cheap race fuel changinging out rubber parts is a good idea watchin for where disimmilar metals contact is a good idea. flextek is claiming all you need is added lube. ive been usin diesel. have not replaced my rubber may be askin for truble. E85 is all 104 to 108 wether it says it on the pump or not. ethinol does not have sutch a sharp detonation curve as gas. you can get more cr or adv witout detonation at a given octane. a low compresion motor will waste the octane better of blendin for max power E30/ E40. most states have E10 at all the gas pumps. I dont do it for MPG Ilike the gained HP. an eqivilent E85 motor generally makes more power. e85 is cheap race fuel. if you have a hot rod with over 10:1 or turbo it is worth lookin into. it is way cheaper than 110 torco/turbo blue let alone 87 reg. a good way to start is just blend it 4 gal 105 oct to 10 gal 87 reg unl will give 92 octane. I get less than %10 loss in mpg sometimes none at all with that blend. change your fuel filter shortly after as it will clean out your entire fuel sys. http://rune85.com/ 
I have been using biodiesel when possible in my VW but there's only 2 pumps I know of in a 175 mile stretch. On that note, I have never seen ANY ethanol pumps, E10 or E85 anywhere. I have not seen 1 single pump in KY, TN, or AL (where I travel most). Would like to play with it in my turbo car if I can ever get it built. One thing I was wondering about was mixing the ethanol with diesel. Didn't think that would go well, but I see your point for lubricity.
Originally Posted by Puck
Without changing anything, higher octane gas will make you lose power.
I don't know about that but I agree there's no advantage to running a higher octane than is required by your engine.
Staging Lane
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 75
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From: detroit
only 3 pumps in kentucky for now http://www.e85refueling.com/location...ate=kyKentucky
as far as i know kentucky was one of the later adopters of e10. there would be a gasahol sticker on the pump m5 or e10
as far as i know kentucky was one of the later adopters of e10. there would be a gasahol sticker on the pump m5 or e10
Ok i might have missed it, mainly because i havent learned all of the abbreviation yet. Would the advancement of my timing on my MSD (+/-7) and 24# allow me to run E85 without a loss of power?
Staging Lane
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 75
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From: detroit
posibly a gain in hp #24 injectors will be workin a bit hard perhaps bigger pump 255 lph a bit more fuel pressure /50 psi to makem act like #28. injectors ar not hard to change. dont forget to vasolene the o-rings. if you have a spare ride and the injectors layin around might be worth a try. let us know how it works out 
a lil more info https://ls1tech.com/forums/fueling-injection/602091-how-run-your-ls1-e85.html
a lil more info https://ls1tech.com/forums/fueling-injection/602091-how-run-your-ls1-e85.html
Originally Posted by litch2004
Ok i might have missed it, mainly because i havent learned all of the abbreviation yet. Would the advancement of my timing on my MSD (+/-7) and 24# allow me to run E85 without a loss of power?
Why 7*? I thought the MSD opti only had +/- 5*?
Originally Posted by litch2004
Ok i might have missed it, mainly because i havent learned all of the abbreviation yet. Would the advancement of my timing on my MSD (+/-7) and 24# allow me to run E85 without a loss of power?
An across the board timing change may not be the best in most scenarios - you may need to add timing to some rpm ranges but take away from or leave others alone.
I'm sure you can put down more power in a stock LT1 with E85 by just bumping the fuel pressure up to bring the DC of the injectors down, and getting a tune.
A heavily modified Z would probably need bigger injectors, but I have never ran E85 so do not know from experience.
A quick google search of "E85 benefits" or "E85 conversion" comes up with a lot of good reading material for the curious.
Sorry it is actually +/- 5. I went back and read it again, im not to sure where i got the 7 from. Has anyone actually adjusted the timing using the set screw on the MSD opti on their LT1?
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From: Decatur, TN (N-W of Athens)
Fuz, where you from? Canada, Europe? What exactly is the benefit of running some Diesel o_0
And if 110 doesn't improve power on our cars, explain how it does on my 91 and 93 Firebird? My friend notices it on his 94 Vette too. It's not a placebo effect either.
EDIT: OK Worst case scenario for me running E85 with 25.5# SVO and my current tune I have.
And if 110 doesn't improve power on our cars, explain how it does on my 91 and 93 Firebird? My friend notices it on his 94 Vette too. It's not a placebo effect either.
EDIT: OK Worst case scenario for me running E85 with 25.5# SVO and my current tune I have.
Last edited by Formula350; Jun 17, 2007 at 09:04 PM.
Originally Posted by Puck
If you convert to E85, I would highly suggest you compensate the timing and fuel curves through a proffesional tune, not the opti.
An across the board timing change may not be the best in most scenarios - you may need to add timing to some rpm ranges but take away from or leave others alone.
I'm sure you can put down more power in a stock LT1 with E85 by just bumping the fuel pressure up to bring the DC of the injectors down, and getting a tune.
A heavily modified Z would probably need bigger injectors, but I have never ran E85 so do not know from experience.
A quick google search of "E85 benefits" or "E85 conversion" comes up with a lot of good reading material for the curious.
An across the board timing change may not be the best in most scenarios - you may need to add timing to some rpm ranges but take away from or leave others alone.
I'm sure you can put down more power in a stock LT1 with E85 by just bumping the fuel pressure up to bring the DC of the injectors down, and getting a tune.
A heavily modified Z would probably need bigger injectors, but I have never ran E85 so do not know from experience.
A quick google search of "E85 benefits" or "E85 conversion" comes up with a lot of good reading material for the curious.