how good are the LT1's vs LS1's
08-30-2007, 05:22 PM
#61
Originally Posted by 96lt1m6
this is starting to sound like a 15 year old debate,the tpi guys fighting with the Lt1 guys,now the Lt1 is trying to defend its worthyness.its called technology,thank goodness we have it!
08-30-2007, 09:50 PM
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MY car is better then everyones so there!!!!!!!!!! But really i am a diehard lt1 guy, i love my lt1 with my delteq i dont even have to worry about optis, i eat sleep and breath lt1 and i personally like the front end better on my lt1 ws6 trans am, thats just me. We did h/c/i on my cousins 94 t/a in 2000 and it put out 430rwhp then, and actuallyt 433rwhp last year.... but on an ls1 im sure he would have broken 500 with his heabily massaged afrs and lt4 im. Guys the ls1 is an amazing motor, 6 bolt main, lighter, and technology, something thats impossible to beat, i hate to break it to you guys but if the lt1 was so great, gm would have kept it and not went with the ls1, engineers arent stupid. Would i love to put an lsx in my car? absolutly, but with my 600+rwhp number in mind with my f.i lt4, i dont really think it matters at that point which motor makes more with bolt ons or which was easier to get there so it all boils down on to what you want. Me personally, i do everything myself, my dad has been building high performance engines for 40 years now, so doing more then bolt ons is a cake walk. To your average shade tree tech who cant build a motor, or do heavy wrenching, doesnt have the knoledge or tools , its nice to pay a bit more for the ls1, and be able to do the easy bolt ons yourself, rather then saving the extra 3k or so on the lt1 car, only to pay it back in labor, tools, ect. Im not ashamed that i have an lt1 not an ls1, plus my little lt1's got heart, but those lsx motors are just pure sex, and i would cheat on my girlfriend with one if i had the chance.
ok bro you were doin good till the"i would cheat on my girl thing"
LOL sick puppy 
08-30-2007, 10:18 PM
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Well i'm not arguing with you man, i agree that the LSx series is definitely the better design, i don't agree that the LS1 is however. The LS1 is a pioneer for the new era.
What strikes me funny is how can you compare something competively stock for stock that's 10-17 yrs old now versus something that's relatively new on the market. The fact that LS1 guys even have to compare to the old school LT1 design just throws a red flag to me. If this new technology is so terrific why is it even being compared. Who compares tpi's to LT1s, never heard that sortive conversation, because LT1s blow them out of the water *hence* LT1's being dropped in third gens all over the place these days.
Nothing personally against you man, it's not a personal attack, i just happened to qoute you from above because it helped me get my point across. Honestly tho if you were breaking optis that bad you must have been doing something wrong. Intmd8 the owner of speedinc ran a 96 SS that was twin turboed. I've never heard of him going through optisparks left and right. Something wasn't right there man.
Also these days you can convert the opti with the delteq if you so choose to.
We'll i'm probably stepping up to the LS2 when the time comes for engine work. Like i said i agree that the LSX series is better, but not necessarily the LS1.
What strikes me funny is how can you compare something competively stock for stock that's 10-17 yrs old now versus something that's relatively new on the market. The fact that LS1 guys even have to compare to the old school LT1 design just throws a red flag to me. If this new technology is so terrific why is it even being compared. Who compares tpi's to LT1s, never heard that sortive conversation, because LT1s blow them out of the water *hence* LT1's being dropped in third gens all over the place these days.
Nothing personally against you man, it's not a personal attack, i just happened to qoute you from above because it helped me get my point across. Honestly tho if you were breaking optis that bad you must have been doing something wrong. Intmd8 the owner of speedinc ran a 96 SS that was twin turboed. I've never heard of him going through optisparks left and right. Something wasn't right there man.
Also these days you can convert the opti with the delteq if you so choose to.
We'll i'm probably stepping up to the LS2 when the time comes for engine work. Like i said i agree that the LSX series is better, but not necessarily the LS1.
Originally Posted by NemeSS
i broke it down and when i first got my 95 z28, i did not pay 5k$ for it more like 12k$ and it was a yr. and a half old. a SAM grad. built my 383lt4 engine.
that was about 4k$ iirc and i was not happy with results so i installed a holley tb spacer nos thing. and the went with th400. and some 12 bolt that came of 3rd gen. modified for the 95' pretty much bolted up. had to pay LPE 700$ for
mail order tune. plus inj. misc.
since i was a diesel mech for some time, i built my own turbo kit with a holset h1e. a low perf. diesel version of a t3 t60 if u will. had to use a 12:1 fmu, that never really ran right under boost, and had to use msd box and coil
kept killing opti's - no information was really available at the time, so i didnt know any better- this was for the second 95 z28 which was a m6.
blew the stock motor, rebuilt stock motor sold car.
got a 98' som z28 in late 98' never looked back
perhaps u are not familiar with the lsx in general, i assume that when ls1 is
used, all of its derivatives and variations are included.
a 6.0 block with crank are now very low priced, ported lt1 heads would be doing good to flow at a stock 243 ls6 head, let alone a l92 head.
the pistons are about the same for both, even sbc rods can be used in a ls1
if available.
machine work is about the same for both,as is trans., susp. etc.
and the main killer of the lt engines is the intake manifolds and lack thereof
and the tuning aids,equipment
that was about 4k$ iirc and i was not happy with results so i installed a holley tb spacer nos thing. and the went with th400. and some 12 bolt that came of 3rd gen. modified for the 95' pretty much bolted up. had to pay LPE 700$ for
mail order tune. plus inj. misc.
since i was a diesel mech for some time, i built my own turbo kit with a holset h1e. a low perf. diesel version of a t3 t60 if u will. had to use a 12:1 fmu, that never really ran right under boost, and had to use msd box and coil
kept killing opti's - no information was really available at the time, so i didnt know any better- this was for the second 95 z28 which was a m6.
blew the stock motor, rebuilt stock motor sold car.
got a 98' som z28 in late 98' never looked back
perhaps u are not familiar with the lsx in general, i assume that when ls1 is
used, all of its derivatives and variations are included.
a 6.0 block with crank are now very low priced, ported lt1 heads would be doing good to flow at a stock 243 ls6 head, let alone a l92 head.
the pistons are about the same for both, even sbc rods can be used in a ls1
if available.
machine work is about the same for both,as is trans., susp. etc.
and the main killer of the lt engines is the intake manifolds and lack thereof
and the tuning aids,equipment
08-30-2007, 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by LT14LIFE JT
Mid 13s with bolt-ons? LMAO, when some have achieved that bone stock.
I never said LT1 was a more superior platform. I agree that it was well designed and will make more power than the LT1 stock for stock, but once you start serious engine work, it's an engine builders game then.
You thinking 12s with bolt ons in an LT1 is not the norm is completely dumb. Have you ever been to or participated in a bolt on LT1 shootout? I have and have hours of video footage to prove how mid 12s are the average for bolt on LT1s. How can you own an LT1 and put them down so much? Florida has a decent DA, but heat must be a factor why you think 12s are not normal for bolt on LT1s. I don't know what the condtions are in FL, but here in VA, they are many 12 second bolt on LT1s that are not tin cans, including mine. And the fastest N/A LT1 record is also held by a man in VA too, Joe Overton. And if I'm not mistaken , the stock bottom end LT1 record (10s in the 1/4!!!!) is also held by a VA man(quickshotkimber). He may be from MD. Must be a heat factor or something, but obviously is not up here.
I never said LT1 was a more superior platform. I agree that it was well designed and will make more power than the LT1 stock for stock, but once you start serious engine work, it's an engine builders game then.
You thinking 12s with bolt ons in an LT1 is not the norm is completely dumb. Have you ever been to or participated in a bolt on LT1 shootout? I have and have hours of video footage to prove how mid 12s are the average for bolt on LT1s. How can you own an LT1 and put them down so much? Florida has a decent DA, but heat must be a factor why you think 12s are not normal for bolt on LT1s. I don't know what the condtions are in FL, but here in VA, they are many 12 second bolt on LT1s that are not tin cans, including mine. And the fastest N/A LT1 record is also held by a man in VA too, Joe Overton. And if I'm not mistaken , the stock bottom end LT1 record (10s in the 1/4!!!!) is also held by a VA man(quickshotkimber). He may be from MD. Must be a heat factor or something, but obviously is not up here.
Of course you're going to see a bunch of 12 second LT1 cars in a bolt-on shoot out.. you're going to get the best of the best there.. not the typical car you see at the track.
I stand by what I've seen both at the track since I started going back in 1999, and what I see online day in and day out.. a bunch of LT1's who have trouble getting out of the mid 13's... and let's not talk about the ones that are trashed to hell that have trouble breaking into the 13's to begin with.. and there's quite a few more out there than I care to admit.
I'm not saying they CAN'T I'm just saying it's not the norm like you somehow make it sound.
I'm not a "slow" LT1 owner, nor have I ever been... so I've got no reason but to tell the truth about what I've witnessed over the past 8 years.
I love my LT1.. don't get me wrong...
08-30-2007, 11:23 PM
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well guys i think we are getting away from the point here, all beaters aside a brand new lt1 would get owned by a brand new ls1. Yes the ls1 might not be the holy grail of the lsx family , and it might be a pionner as said, but what a hell of a following it is,look at how many lsx series engines you have to mix and match good and some what cheap parts together with, us lt1 guys have basically one better factory engine, the lt4, not much room to grow here.
I dont think its more so the 3rd gen guys swap the lt1 in because they are so much better then the l98s, its just they are a few grand cheaper then the ls1s which is appealing to most of us who dont have big money to drop on expensive crate motors or swaps, like somebody said these lt1 cars are old enough you can find them in the junk yard, thats tough to beat for your average joe swap with limitied cash
Im really sick of reading all these threads so im not gonna lie i didnt read them all, but you guys that keep mentioning the opti need to get real. I have never had an opti problem, but you guys who are talking bolt on record this, e.t that, if your a serious lt1 player you will have a delteq, or ltcc setup, plain and simple, the opti wasnt the best design, but we learn from our mistakes, and several companies have good fixes for them now.
You people need to get a grip, like i said its all technology, every year we learn to go faster, cheaper, better, so on. You dont see people comparing a 283 power pack to an ls1 do you? we should all be so luckiy such small engines like ours ( well aside from the huge strokers im saying) can make just as much power as the big blocks of the muscle car era. I wish i had that quote from 2 lane black top that "gto" made to the 55, something along the lines of when you can take an old car and make it run up against something new like this you were doing good, well thats right, and cars will just keep getting faster and faster..
Im in it to win it, and im gonna build my lt1 the way i want, would an ls1 built the same way make more power, sure it would, but who cares? i have a 400hp sohc vtec turbo honda, and i dont cry because i dont have the almightly dohc vtec motor, shes it would be faster, but i havent lost any races yet and im happy with the out come. i dont love my car any less because it has the old engine in it, thats like spitting on a 69 camaro because it has a carb, and mechanical fuel pump, its still nice for what it is.
I dont think its more so the 3rd gen guys swap the lt1 in because they are so much better then the l98s, its just they are a few grand cheaper then the ls1s which is appealing to most of us who dont have big money to drop on expensive crate motors or swaps, like somebody said these lt1 cars are old enough you can find them in the junk yard, thats tough to beat for your average joe swap with limitied cash
Im really sick of reading all these threads so im not gonna lie i didnt read them all, but you guys that keep mentioning the opti need to get real. I have never had an opti problem, but you guys who are talking bolt on record this, e.t that, if your a serious lt1 player you will have a delteq, or ltcc setup, plain and simple, the opti wasnt the best design, but we learn from our mistakes, and several companies have good fixes for them now.
You people need to get a grip, like i said its all technology, every year we learn to go faster, cheaper, better, so on. You dont see people comparing a 283 power pack to an ls1 do you? we should all be so luckiy such small engines like ours ( well aside from the huge strokers im saying) can make just as much power as the big blocks of the muscle car era. I wish i had that quote from 2 lane black top that "gto" made to the 55, something along the lines of when you can take an old car and make it run up against something new like this you were doing good, well thats right, and cars will just keep getting faster and faster..
Im in it to win it, and im gonna build my lt1 the way i want, would an ls1 built the same way make more power, sure it would, but who cares? i have a 400hp sohc vtec turbo honda, and i dont cry because i dont have the almightly dohc vtec motor, shes it would be faster, but i havent lost any races yet and im happy with the out come. i dont love my car any less because it has the old engine in it, thats like spitting on a 69 camaro because it has a carb, and mechanical fuel pump, its still nice for what it is.
08-31-2007, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Javier97Z28
If you think most bolt-on LT1 are running in the 12's.. and even crazier.. in the mid 12's.. you're in la-la land.
Of course you're going to see a bunch of 12 second LT1 cars in a bolt-on shoot out.. you're going to get the best of the best there.. not the typical car you see at the track.
I stand by what I've seen both at the track since I started going back in 1999, and what I see online day in and day out.. a bunch of LT1's who have trouble getting out of the mid 13's... and let's not talk about the ones that are trashed to hell that have trouble breaking into the 13's to begin with.. and there's quite a few more out there than I care to admit.
I'm not saying they CAN'T I'm just saying it's not the norm like you somehow make it sound.
I'm not a "slow" LT1 owner, nor have I ever been... so I've got no reason but to tell the truth about what I've witnessed over the past 8 years.
I love my LT1.. don't get me wrong...
Of course you're going to see a bunch of 12 second LT1 cars in a bolt-on shoot out.. you're going to get the best of the best there.. not the typical car you see at the track.
I stand by what I've seen both at the track since I started going back in 1999, and what I see online day in and day out.. a bunch of LT1's who have trouble getting out of the mid 13's... and let's not talk about the ones that are trashed to hell that have trouble breaking into the 13's to begin with.. and there's quite a few more out there than I care to admit.
I'm not saying they CAN'T I'm just saying it's not the norm like you somehow make it sound.
I'm not a "slow" LT1 owner, nor have I ever been... so I've got no reason but to tell the truth about what I've witnessed over the past 8 years.
I love my LT1.. don't get me wrong...
So, I guess weight reduction is worth over a second in the ET department if most bolt on LT1s can only run low to mid 13s and the record holder runs in the 11s? I ran 12s all day and I'm full weight plus a cage and on stock tune and didn't even have LT headers. With all supporting bolt on mods and a good tune, a full weight LT1 can run 12.30-12.40s all day long. With weight reduction you can see some low 12s high 11s. And within time you'll see the record change to mid 11s maybe even faster. Then what will you say? You can gain 2 full seconds by removing weight when the rule of thumb is 100 lbs is equal to .1 at the track? Please.
08-31-2007, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by LT14LIFE JT
So, I guess weight reduction is worth over a second in the ET department if most bolt on LT1s can only run low to mid 13s and the record holder runs in the 11s? I ran 12s all day and I'm full weight plus a cage and on stock tune and didn't even have LT headers. With all supporting bolt on mods and a good tune, a full weight LT1 can run 12.30-12.40s all day long. With weight reduction you can see some low 12s high 11s. And within time you'll see the record change to mid 11s maybe even faster. Then what will you say? You can gain 2 full seconds by removing weight when the rule of thumb is 100 lbs is equal to .1 at the track? Please.
I think your reading comprehension skills are lacking. I'm well aware of what Shon and John have done w/ their cars.
