jakesz28

iTrader: (9)

The bottom line is how fast can you afford to go?

jakesz28

iTrader: (9)

If you think a used th350 and just any stall will go 9's you may be surpised. When you start spraying a big shot and are making more power a cheap converter doesn't hold up. I have a Vig 3600 3 disk lock up so it is a $800-900 converter and it could have been a blowing through when on the hose. I kept going up in jet sizes and wasn't really getting much more out of it.


Just a thought if your going to add more power.

FASTFATBOY

iTrader: (23)

The 10 point is EXACTLY what you have pictured above out of the NHRA rulebook.


Again I dont know where you race, but these examples are STANDARD in the racing world.


David

jakesz28

iTrader: (9)

If you spent seven grand on a set of 23* heads you wasted your money and should have converted some 18* heads or ran the sb2.2 heads

I'm not counting jesel shaft monts in head price thats just part of a healthy SR.

r_trigg

iTrader: (1)

Well, at least give you credit for some research this time. However, I must emphasize that there is no correlation between # of points and NHRA requirements...because there is no real STANDARD. Point is case:

http://www.mmsport.com.au/Roll_Cage_Fabrication.php

This link show a beautiful example of a 6-point roll cage. it is clearly called a 6-point roll cage because it has 6 attahcment points.


In looking at the current NHRA rules and picture...I see the "D" bars. This is a relatively new requirement...mainly due to most cars being uni-body and not having a full frame. So, I would certainly correct myself and call the new requirement an 8-point cage...not the 6 point cage which used to be the NHRA requirement. In years past, you could simply add the "halo bar" and the "down bars" labelled "A" in the picture from NHRA. Now you have to tie into the subframe with bars labelled "D". Again, this is relatively new.

So, I'll admit I did not know about the requirement for the subframe bars...which adds two attachement points.

So, 10 point to you is 8 point to me...and many others. Just as I use the term wheels...and you probably use the term "rims".

But, the heart of this whole debate was in regards to expense of a roll cage for an f-body to run 9.99. You can purchase a kit from Wolfe Racecraft that is prefit and fairly straight forward to install for $385. it does not cost $3K to have an NHRA legal cage as the first post suggested. See link

http://www.wolferacecraft.com/detail.aspx?ID=254

ABA383

iTrader: (1)

That is a 10 point cage... Oh boy....

ABA383

iTrader: (1)

Your cost example is no where near the norm for what it usually costs for a cage good for 9s...I was quoting chrome moly which is what I'm using because its 33% lighter than mild steel...and here is around $2900ish for such a set up custom fabbed and tig welded and certified including the net and harness. Not many of us are able to have someone weld it in for peanuts...I'd sure like to see how yours turned out...Having helped install a bunch of 6 point bars all the way up to a 25.5 set ups, I know how much work goes into the fab work and installation especially the removal of the entire interior and dash to get the front bars to go down thru the dash, and then the reinstallation of the dash around the bars to make it look like a factory installed piece...The exact mounting point locations are crucial to the function of the suspension and chassis as well as the safety of the driver...I'll gladly pay a good shop that specializes in NHRA roll bars and cages...In the end its my life on the line and its worth way more than $3000...

--Alan

FASTFATBOY

iTrader: (23)

Those "subframe bars" off the hoop behind the seats to my knowledge have always been there, and in any car there is no "subframe" there. They are either welded to the rear floorboard or the trans tunnel, or on the case of a 25.5 or a 25.2 they are welded to a bar across the bottom of the car passing through the floor to meet it.

David

ABA383

iTrader: (1)

The bottom line to the OP is that going 9s legally for 10K is going to be very difficult...I'm sure it can be done...its just not anywhere near the norm...but I'd love to see it...

--Alan

r_trigg

iTrader: (1)

Actually after I looked at the link, I notice I linked to the Wolfe Chrome-Moly cage...not the mild steel cage. The Chrome-Moly cage is $599. The mild steel cage is $385. both cages are NHRA legal to 8.50.

Do a google IMAGE search for "6-point cage". You will find every variety and then some. Show me anywhere in the NHRA rule where they refer to any of their examples by number of "points". They DON'T...becaue it is completely ambiguous!

The debate isn't about anything but:
COST OF REQUIREMENTS TO GO 9.99.

We could pointlessly debate roll bars all night...but the fact is you can install a very nice NHRA legal roll cage for ET's as low as 8.50 for under $500 if you DIY. It does not have to be some Pro-Stock inspired roll cage.

I readily stated in my FIRST post that if your were spending $3K for a roll cage it was Chrome Moly, tig welded, and custom fabbed. But it certainly wouldn't be your choice if you were trying to go 9's with a $10K budget.

r_trigg

iTrader: (1)

I have digital camera in-hand. Where do you want me to send the pics? I'll place my craftsmenship against anyone. Mine is mild-steel and MIG'ed, but it is certain done right! Carpet fits perfectly around bars, and rear interior pieces fit flawlessly around the back bars. I get asked who did the work all the time. Again, My car runs 9.40's to date. Car 60 foot in the 1.40's...at 3650#. I think it works fine. Every surface is clean enough to eat off of. I drive it maybe 500 miles a year. I can also snap pictures of all the car show awards while I am at it. I may not have stated, the car has 24K miles. It is immaculate.

ABA383

iTrader: (1)

I only chimed in when you said that we had no idea what we were talking about..Having been present at many NHRA certifications in my 20 or so years of racing, I think I know exactly what I'm talking about and you did not...If you have a legal 9 second ride then you should not have to "Google" anything to see what it takes to be legal...All you'd have to do is post pix of your own car...I'm not trying to be an *** here, but you threw the first blow with the insults...I'm over it...it ain't no big deal and it sure doesn't help the OP...If you can DIY and get certified for under $600 then more power to you...What I was saying is that for the majority of us its not going to happen for that little $...Imho a 10 point in chrome moly would be the only way to go so as not to add tons of weight to the car...adding weight would mean having to add hp..Its kind of a "catch 22"...

--Alan

ABA383

iTrader: (1)

You don't have to send them to me...Just post them here...Good work is nice to see...No one is debating the condition of your car..Hell, mine is flawless, too and I drive all over the place with 50,000 miles on it...4-5000 miles a year...If you had pix the whole time you should've just posted them up and shut us all up...Post up the pix along with close ups of the NHRA certification sticker...Like I said before, I love to see good work as its sometimes hard to find...

--Alan

r_trigg

iTrader: (1)

David,
Read note "D" on the NHRA picture.
"Mandatory when main hoop welded to plates on floor; must be connected to subframe"

On a full frame car you have the option to tie directly into the frame. If this is done, you do not have to have the "D" bars. Obviously an f-body is not a full frame or chassis car. So, you must install the "D" bars...which also means you must install a cross member to tie into the sub-frames. This is seldom done, and probably overlooked by most local tracks. But I would bet a Stock Eliminator has the proper tie-in to the subframe.

Speed Density

iTrader: (38)

I agree.

r_trigg

iTrader: (1)

Alan,
you seem like a reasonable guy. I certainly feel I know what is required, but I was only debating the sematics. I call it one thing you (and I guess others on this list) call it somehthing else. I don't have to google anything. I was trying to prove that there are many descrepancies on what it is called. I was the first to reference NHRA. Again, the avoid calling a cage a "10-point" cage...or a 8-point" cage. They have to be clear.

In an earlier post I mentioned I have both posted pictures of my car and engine on this website. But here are a couple that have been uploaded

wheels up motor pass

Current 396 LT1

r_trigg

iTrader: (1)

Here is a link to a homepage I had when I was trying to sell a few things.

r_trigg home

Note the $1395 LAMB brakes. I don't use cheap stuff. Probably no good "shots", but I built the entire from suspension from Chrome-Moly. All tig welded and stress relieved...with aircraft rod-ends.

I'll get a few shots of the roll bar.

r_trigg

iTrader: (1)

Here are my Chrome-Moly lower A-frames. Did all the design and fabrication. And yeah, it was cheaper than buying PA or BMR, or whoever...and these are featherweight. The "strut" tube is aluminum.

Cr-MO Lower A-arms

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

NHRA 9.99's with all new parts? It would be tight.

9.99 with a lot of used parts for under 10g's is totally doable, nobody should question that.

I'm thinking that an 11.3 NA car + spray like 200 gets there no problem.

ABA383

iTrader: (1)

Car looks nice...It always nice to see LT1s running strong...I know that the NHRA rule book can read like stereo instructions sometimes...I guess we can all get bogged down in semantics or "some antics" as the case may be...Again, nice ride...I wish I had the ability to fab/weld all my own stuff, but I don't...I help out on the weekends at Performance Auto Fab, a local shop (and sponsor here) that specializes in building suspensions and chassis for cars running into the 8s, and hopefully 7s soon with a new custom turbo LSX build, so I see what it takes to go fast legally and it ain't cheap...I'm trying to get the owner to teach me how to weld, but I'm just a dumb cop and he just laughs at me...

Anyway, 'nuff said, nice car...No hard feelings...I'm going to catch some ZZZZZZZs....Got bad guys to catch in a few hours...

--Alan