Can I delete torque arm?
05-13-2008, 11:13 PM
#23
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From what I heard it was carnage...... That's a drag radial too.....
all that damage and 1000.00 worth of wheelie bars would have stopped it...
Either way people at the track were probably talking about that for months. They probably have the guys picture up in the tower.... It was probably worth the oil pan and the headers. Hopefully it didn't bust the crank in half....
all that damage and 1000.00 worth of wheelie bars would have stopped it...
Either way people at the track were probably talking about that for months. They probably have the guys picture up in the tower.... It was probably worth the oil pan and the headers. Hopefully it didn't bust the crank in half....
05-14-2008, 08:16 AM
#26
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All the links and stuff I've seen in this thread are basically just z bars. I have them on my car and will be removing them soon. Unless these other guys know something I don't they aren't worth a ****. When you launch it separates the body from the rearend, basically lifting the body up and it will bounce violently at the track, at least mine did. It definitely plants the tires but it will alsio tear stuff up eventually. When it lifts the body like that it pulls the yoke out of the trans and I now have twisted splines on the tailshaft thanks to this. My advice, stay with the TA unless you can do a 4 bar or 4 link system. I will be going back to the TA once I put the trans back in.
I was told by someone that has done it that if you use z bars and the TA then yes you'll see some benefit but he's running in the low 10's maybe even high 9's now so he could probably use it.
I was told by someone that has done it that if you use z bars and the TA then yes you'll see some benefit but he's running in the low 10's maybe even high 9's now so he could probably use it.
11-10-2010, 10:25 AM
#27
There is so much wrong information in this thread that I don't even know where to begin. First, the fact that people are saying torque arms do not work only proves ignorance or lack of knowledge on their part. There are so many sub-1.3 second 60 ft. torque arm cars out there now that I can't even believe it is still a questionable topic. 
We have multiple customers with off-the-shelf torque arms running under 1.2 second 60 ft/times!
We also have hundreds of customers with full length torque arms and relocation crossmembers doing exactly what the OP is needing to do. The scenario is not new. you want to put in a TH400, PG, or TH350 but don't know how to mount the torque arm. We have multiple solutions. If you can weld, we offer weld-in crossmembers with multiple levels of torque arms capable of 7 second quarter mile times. If you want a bolt-on solution, we have crossmembers designed for just about every transmission conversion out there. These crossmembers not only provide the correct transmission mounting point but they also give you an adjustable torque arm mount. This option has been proven in many 9 second cars so strength and functionality is definitely not an issue and price is very reasonable. It presents no downsides, unlike the kit in this discussion.
Do ladder bars work? Yes, when designed and setup properly. To make them work in this chassis (and practically all similar wheelbase chassis), depending on your specific vehicles weight distribution, you would need a ladder bar that is somewhere around 34-38 inches long to get your instant center in the ball park. Additionally, you would need multiple front mounting points. A factory control arm is only 19.5 inches long so you would have a ladder bar shorter than 20"! This puts your instant center way too far rearward to make the suspension work properly at the track. It will have way too much body separation to hook properly. This is the first problem with this setup.
The second problem is the fact that the pinion angle will rapidly change through the suspensions range of motion. By solidly connecting the control arm to the rear you are forcing the pinion to rotate on the same arc as the lower control arm. Since the arm is so short, this arc is very tight and pinion angle will drastically change from full compression to full extension.
The third problem is ride quality. With the control arms solidly connected to the rear, there is no way the rear end can properly articulate in off-camber transitions, road irregularities, etc. If one wheel hits a bump, the entire axle must go upward instead of just that wheel. This is why ladder bars have always been undesirable for street use. They just make for a very uncomfortable ride. The poly bushings will help somewhat but they will also wear prematurely because of the excessive load placed on them....
To the OP, I am sorry you weren't helped with your torque arm problems initially to the point where you are considering an alternate type of suspension. The torque arm suspension is one of the best performing and most versatile suspensions in terms of handling vs. drag racing vs. ride quality. It just performs well in all three. Its hard to match all three attributes with any other form of suspension. 3 links and IRS are questionably better for road courses but not so much at the drag strip. 4 links work great at the drag strip but function poorly on the road course. The torque arm is a hybrid between them all that is easily adaptable to all forms of driving with very little downsides. Regardless of your usage requirements, you can easily make a torque arm work for you and have much better results then what you will get with a short ladder bar setup on this platform...
We have multiple customers with off-the-shelf torque arms running under 1.2 second 60 ft/times! We also have hundreds of customers with full length torque arms and relocation crossmembers doing exactly what the OP is needing to do. The scenario is not new. you want to put in a TH400, PG, or TH350 but don't know how to mount the torque arm. We have multiple solutions. If you can weld, we offer weld-in crossmembers with multiple levels of torque arms capable of 7 second quarter mile times. If you want a bolt-on solution, we have crossmembers designed for just about every transmission conversion out there. These crossmembers not only provide the correct transmission mounting point but they also give you an adjustable torque arm mount. This option has been proven in many 9 second cars so strength and functionality is definitely not an issue and price is very reasonable. It presents no downsides, unlike the kit in this discussion.
Do ladder bars work? Yes, when designed and setup properly. To make them work in this chassis (and practically all similar wheelbase chassis), depending on your specific vehicles weight distribution, you would need a ladder bar that is somewhere around 34-38 inches long to get your instant center in the ball park. Additionally, you would need multiple front mounting points. A factory control arm is only 19.5 inches long so you would have a ladder bar shorter than 20"! This puts your instant center way too far rearward to make the suspension work properly at the track. It will have way too much body separation to hook properly. This is the first problem with this setup.
The second problem is the fact that the pinion angle will rapidly change through the suspensions range of motion. By solidly connecting the control arm to the rear you are forcing the pinion to rotate on the same arc as the lower control arm. Since the arm is so short, this arc is very tight and pinion angle will drastically change from full compression to full extension.
The third problem is ride quality. With the control arms solidly connected to the rear, there is no way the rear end can properly articulate in off-camber transitions, road irregularities, etc. If one wheel hits a bump, the entire axle must go upward instead of just that wheel. This is why ladder bars have always been undesirable for street use. They just make for a very uncomfortable ride. The poly bushings will help somewhat but they will also wear prematurely because of the excessive load placed on them....
To the OP, I am sorry you weren't helped with your torque arm problems initially to the point where you are considering an alternate type of suspension. The torque arm suspension is one of the best performing and most versatile suspensions in terms of handling vs. drag racing vs. ride quality. It just performs well in all three. Its hard to match all three attributes with any other form of suspension. 3 links and IRS are questionably better for road courses but not so much at the drag strip. 4 links work great at the drag strip but function poorly on the road course. The torque arm is a hybrid between them all that is easily adaptable to all forms of driving with very little downsides. Regardless of your usage requirements, you can easily make a torque arm work for you and have much better results then what you will get with a short ladder bar setup on this platform...
11-10-2010, 11:28 AM
#28
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there is so much wrong information in this thread that i don't even know where to begin. First, the fact that people are saying torque arms do not work only proves ignorance or lack of knowledge on their part. There are so many sub-1.3 second 60 ft. Torque arm cars out there now that i can't even believe it is still a questionable topic. We have multiple customers with off-the-shelf torque arms running under 1.2 second 60 ft/times!
We also have hundreds of customers with full length torque arms and relocation crossmembers doing exactly what the op is needing to do. The scenario is not new. You want to put in a th400, pg, or th350 but don't know how to mount the torque arm. We have multiple solutions. If you can weld, we offer weld-in crossmembers with multiple levels of torque arms capable of 7 second quarter mile times. If you want a bolt-on solution, we have crossmembers designed for just about every transmission conversion out there. These crossmembers not only provide the correct transmission mounting point but they also give you an adjustable torque arm mount. This option has been proven in many 9 second cars so strength and functionality is definitely not an issue and price is very reasonable. It presents no downsides, unlike the kit in this discussion.
Do ladder bars work? Yes, when designed and setup properly. To make them work in this chassis (and practically all similar wheelbase chassis), depending on your specific vehicles weight distribution, you would need a ladder bar that is somewhere around 34-38 inches long to get your instant center in the ball park. Additionally, you would need multiple front mounting points. A factory control arm is only 19.5 inches long so you would have a ladder bar shorter than 20"! This puts your instant center way too far rearward to make the suspension work properly at the track. It will have way too much body separation to hook properly. This is the first problem with this setup.
The second problem is the fact that the pinion angle will rapidly change through the suspensions range of motion. By solidly connecting the control arm to the rear you are forcing the pinion to rotate on the same arc as the lower control arm. Since the arm is so short, this arc is very tight and pinion angle will drastically change from full compression to full extension.
The third problem is ride quality. With the control arms solidly connected to the rear, there is no way the rear end can properly articulate in off-camber transitions, road irregularities, etc. If one wheel hits a bump, the entire axle must go upward instead of just that wheel. This is why ladder bars have always been undesirable for street use. They just make for a very uncomfortable ride. The poly bushings will help somewhat but they will also wear prematurely because of the excessive load placed on them....
To the op, i am sorry you weren't helped with your torque arm problems initially to the point where you are considering an alternate type of suspension. The torque arm suspension is one of the best performing and most versatile suspensions in terms of handling vs. Drag racing vs. Ride quality. It just performs well in all three. Its hard to match all three attributes with any other form of suspension. 3 links and irs are questionably better for road courses but not so much at the drag strip. 4 links work great at the drag strip but function poorly on the road course. The torque arm is a hybrid between them all that is easily adaptable to all forms of driving with very little downsides. Regardless of your usage requirements, you can easily make a torque arm work for you and have much better results then what you will get with a short ladder bar setup on this platform...
We have multiple customers with off-the-shelf torque arms running under 1.2 second 60 ft/times! We also have hundreds of customers with full length torque arms and relocation crossmembers doing exactly what the op is needing to do. The scenario is not new. You want to put in a th400, pg, or th350 but don't know how to mount the torque arm. We have multiple solutions. If you can weld, we offer weld-in crossmembers with multiple levels of torque arms capable of 7 second quarter mile times. If you want a bolt-on solution, we have crossmembers designed for just about every transmission conversion out there. These crossmembers not only provide the correct transmission mounting point but they also give you an adjustable torque arm mount. This option has been proven in many 9 second cars so strength and functionality is definitely not an issue and price is very reasonable. It presents no downsides, unlike the kit in this discussion.
Do ladder bars work? Yes, when designed and setup properly. To make them work in this chassis (and practically all similar wheelbase chassis), depending on your specific vehicles weight distribution, you would need a ladder bar that is somewhere around 34-38 inches long to get your instant center in the ball park. Additionally, you would need multiple front mounting points. A factory control arm is only 19.5 inches long so you would have a ladder bar shorter than 20"! This puts your instant center way too far rearward to make the suspension work properly at the track. It will have way too much body separation to hook properly. This is the first problem with this setup.
The second problem is the fact that the pinion angle will rapidly change through the suspensions range of motion. By solidly connecting the control arm to the rear you are forcing the pinion to rotate on the same arc as the lower control arm. Since the arm is so short, this arc is very tight and pinion angle will drastically change from full compression to full extension.
The third problem is ride quality. With the control arms solidly connected to the rear, there is no way the rear end can properly articulate in off-camber transitions, road irregularities, etc. If one wheel hits a bump, the entire axle must go upward instead of just that wheel. This is why ladder bars have always been undesirable for street use. They just make for a very uncomfortable ride. The poly bushings will help somewhat but they will also wear prematurely because of the excessive load placed on them....
To the op, i am sorry you weren't helped with your torque arm problems initially to the point where you are considering an alternate type of suspension. The torque arm suspension is one of the best performing and most versatile suspensions in terms of handling vs. Drag racing vs. Ride quality. It just performs well in all three. Its hard to match all three attributes with any other form of suspension. 3 links and irs are questionably better for road courses but not so much at the drag strip. 4 links work great at the drag strip but function poorly on the road course. The torque arm is a hybrid between them all that is easily adaptable to all forms of driving with very little downsides. Regardless of your usage requirements, you can easily make a torque arm work for you and have much better results then what you will get with a short ladder bar setup on this platform...
