TAEnvy

iTrader: (2)

I dont consider it unacceptable until I see the kind of cam they are running. Some pro racers would love the get 2-5k out of their springs. It all depends on the setup.

slow and da curious

This ought to be interesting. I'd like to see the same comparison.

Who is Advanced Induction BTW?

96capricemgr

iTrader: (1)

I am not talking about all out racing setups where this sort of wear would be expected, this is well documented in "mild" street setups. Comp 3192 lobe look it up, makes the XFI stuff look mild.



Search and you will find positive recommendations on Granatelli, Jet, Hypertech programmers, Tornado etc., must all be good too????

slow and da curious

Recommendations for BRE cams: 10
Recommendations for AI cams: 5

Damn, that's a lot of guys with slow and subtle valvespring fatigue...and they don't even know it's happening

That's what I hear anyway.....

96capricemgr

iTrader: (1)

http://camaroz28.com/forums/showthread.php?t=592005
http://camaroz28.com/forums/showpost...4&postcount=17

slow and da curious

Not sure what http://camaroz28.com/forums/showthread.php?t=592005 is but it's 11 pages long and I'm not about to read every one then try and figure out the point your'e trying to make. I'm sure it's important, so just please tell me. Thanks.

And the one thing that stood out to me in http://camaroz28.com/forums/showpost...4&postcount=17 is...and I quote..."problems with people buying things from him which is related to problems with vendors here"

I do understand the nature of these boards and I respect that. It's a business. Sponsors/vendors make this thing work. Obviously, there was a problem with this.....uh.....we'll call him "camguy". He's getting all this business because his product is good (I mean, if it was bad...see-destroys valvetrain after 2-5K miles...he wouldn't be in business) and he's not a sponsor/vendor. I can see where that might make other vendor/sponsors unhappy. But damn, a forum is an open, opinion-oriented place to say what's on your mind. Hell, freedom of speech comes to mind.

FWIW, you posting a link to send me to what has to be a competitor of this site would be grounds for getting "banned". It's the same principle isn't it?

And the last link also has something about "talking negatively about other peoples products"-saying that was another reason he was banned.

How's that different from what you're doing to his product?

But it's all good. That's why it's America. The freedom of choice. You can run what you think is best and the next guy can run what he thinks is best. But just because he's not running what your'e running doesn't give you the right to bash his ****. That would be like me bashing AI's stuff. It's not right and I won't but I'm just sayin'

Peace

TAEnvy

iTrader: (2)

Thats the thing that made me want to do this. I rarely see BRE or LE guys bashing others **** but the AI guys get all over LE and BREs ****, and even some of the biggest naysayers of BRE stuff have never run it.

Opinions are like ********.

I find it poor that AI has something negative about what is no doubt BRE grinds on their site.

Where I live there are numerous tranny shops and when looking for a shop to do the tranny for the Z71 I talked to all the owners and the owner of the guy who did the rebuilt told me when I asked about other shops what he thought of their product and he told me Ill never say anythign bad about another shop wether they are a competitor or not, Ill let my testimonys and products speak for themselves.
After going through 3 other trannies his lasted til I sold it.

When a certain tranny owner comes into the shop badmouthing other shops I will turn all the business I can away from them. If you make a good product bad mouthing some one elses isnt neccesry.

slow and da curious

+1 ^^^^^^
Well Said.

Z-RATED94

iTrader: (6)

I agree, but am afraid it falls upon deaf ears.

gex

Harold prior cam designer/owner of Ultradyne also worked for Lunati now works or owns Bulet Cams. Not well know in LTx circles but has been in the cam game for a long time and know his stuff. http://www.bulletcams.com/

aboatguy

I haven't bashed anyone, and I've never seen a thread where Ron or Phil have bashed Lloyd or any of the other porters. I almost went with Lloyd, but I did not like some of the things I read from a guy in LE's camp so I went with AI (It wasn't Lloyd; IMO he is a class act)

I believe dyno-racing only shows which cam made the best power on the dyno. For a street car (which I have) Idle quality is a consideration, along with how well it runs, and reliabilty since I have to commute to work everyday.

Changing valve springs every weekend is not a problem on a race car; however, it is a problem on a street car. With the rash of bad springs and lousy quality control from some of the big manufacturers, it may not be the cam grinders fault when theres a valve train problem.

I agree with you that seems to be a problem with guys bashing/ or recommending things that they don't own. I am glad that the LE guys are loyal to Lloyd and the AI guys are Loyal to Ron/Phil that shows that they both have good products. However, there are other LT1 porters out there that have good products and it would be nice to hear from them every now and then.


What I'm trying to say is we should be helping each other out in order to move the LTX power levels up so that they do not become nostalgic power plants only like flathead fords.
MIke

moehorsepower

iTrader: (3)

All I can say is that I am sad to see LaZer Cams no longer exist, Bill Metzger was a hell of a nice guy and the passing of him was a bad hit in the performance world. I know a lot of people never heard of him or LaZer cams but he proved everyone wrong way in the early stages, Like I said his cams for the LT1's back then were cut in the 106-108 LS range, every other cam manufacture said you could not run cams of this narrow lobe separation due to that the fuel injected motors could not operate. There are quite a few LT1's out there that are running his cams with this LS, Idle great and make great power, One of my customers has his grind, AFR 195's and a 100 shot and runs 10.30.

96capricemgr

iTrader: (1)

Actually the gex guy above had troubles with his LE/BB stuff too. Bret tried to blame it on "harmonics" in the BEEHIVE springs which by their very nature will not have harmonic issues at least not at our rpm ranges, each coil has it's own frequency so the whole spring will never go into a resonance.

Numbers(quantity) simply means better marketing, means nothing about quality.

TAEnvy

iTrader: (2)

I know of a little known head porter who is squeezing quite a bit out of a 195cc runner and Im gonna have him do mine.
I only know one other person that has ever had their LT1 heads done there and he is very reasonably priced. Once I get my heads from him Ill post up some flow sheets for you guys to see, I think you may be impressed.

I planned on going with AI but after all the **** I see thrown around in here, and it being so hard to actually talk to them, I decided to go elsewhere with my business. I could give a **** how busy they are, I work in a shop and if I am swamped up to my eyes and the phone rings I run to that thing, and if I have to stay on the phone for 5 or 10 minutes to fix a problem with a customer or clear something up with a customer or bring in a new one I will, and I still manage to get my stuff done.

Plus Im young and nothing pisses me off more than when Im not taken seriously. Go to a real nice restraunt get shitty service cause they dont expect a tip, go to a dealership to buy a new car, no service cause they dont think im gonna buy anything, go anywhere that requires a decent amount of money and bam Im young so they dont help me, so it wears on me alot and Im not gonna drop 2K when I cant even get the head porter to talk to me for a few minutes. They make a great product no doubt, but thats not what im talking about.

94nitrousedLT1

I've been there. Had a 94 z28 for about 9 years now. Took it to the dealer when the opti was going out and they didn't want to fix it. This was in 2000 and the car was a 94, 6 years old I asked them if they wanted me to call a junk yard and scrap it. They didn't think I would have the money to fix it. $1800 and I drove it away happy that I didn't have to fix it myself.

Talked to a couple people about custom cams, had to e-mail one guy several times. Some didn't call me back and some wouldn't give me a number to call to talk to them.

Customer service, spending time talking and answering questions gets my vote and business.

Two things that bother me are not giving honest dates when work will be done and not wanting to listen to the customers opinion.


Short block was built by LME and they had Cam Motion spec the cam. I will be getting the top end together soon.

Old SStroker

Interesting comments guys. I part-time in a liquor and wine retail store. We NEVER "judge a book by it's cover" when someone walks in. One of my favorite high-end (and often high-priced) scotch buyers just turned 21 and looks like a typical beer drinker. We spent a little time with him on his first visit discussing scotch and he ended up being a good customer.

That being said, there are some things folks buy where the customer's opinion of HOW to get performance is not relative to getting what he WANTS. Custom cams come quickly to mind.

If you have tried to talk with a cam guy after several emails, and he doesn't get back to you, there is a chance he has decided that he doesn't need you as a customer. Believe it or not. In any business there are a small percent of your customers who cause a large percent of your problems/hassles, etc.

Usually it is attitude reasons, aka "personality conflicts". For example if you hire someone to provide a cam which will accomplish your specific goals for your engine/vehicle and then you try to tell him what durations, lifts, LSA etc. to use, you are shooting yourself in the foot. In that case, do it yourself. What you are saying is "I hired you, but I don't trust your expertise." My answer to that, as a supplier, would be a strong "FO, Buddy!" To be a little nicer I might just stop talking with them or not quote the job.

It takes a while, often many years, to figure that out, and to realize that you don't need or want every customer. If there are enough customers that trust your judgement and are very satisfied with your work, they tell others who take their advice...and the beat goes on. With enough customer relations experience, you can tell the signs of the "customer from hell" (CFH) during initial contacts via email or conversation.

I'm not saying any of this applies to you, but you should think about it if you are having trouble getting competent guys to provide you parts or do work for you. Every sale needs to be a win-win for both the supplier and the customer. If the potential "hassle" outweighs the $ profit, it is no longer a win-win, and some smart suppliers just bail out before that happens. The customer is not necessarily "always right".

On a nastier note, if one supplier refuses to deal with someone whom he preceives to be the CFH, that person might go to his competition, and they get the grief. I suppose that has happened once or twice.

Just my observations after being in business for MANY years.


Jon

jasonisdn

iTrader: (1)

Right now they are working 7 days a week to keep up with orders. Try to picture yourself working 15 hour days monday thru friday and a 12 hour day on saturday then 8 on sunday. Thats the rate that phill is working at right now. Then you have kids (not calling you one but you said you were young) calling and saying "I want to run 9's in the 1/4 on motor, (NO nitrous or boost just on motor) in a DD street car. What do I need?" (That question was actually asked to a sponser of another board, over the phone not to AI.) Then after all the time went into the phone call, the kid hears the amount and hangs up never to call again. Just my view on things but i **** people off for a living and I enjoy it.

Tireburnin

iTrader: (42)

I talked with Phil the other day.

He called me while he was waiting on some heads to come off the CNC machine...it was 11:45 PM his time. He is busy as hell right now.

If I called during business hours, Ron always picked up and always relayed messages. Things like cylinder heads are made to order and thus take more time and effort to get. Custom stuff takes time.

But next time I need some custom work done, I will be sure to call up my resident throttle body porter for his deep insight.

TAEnvy

iTrader: (2)

I do work that much, well 4 hours a day of it is school but I bust my *** for the **** I have.
To tell you the truth though i dont want to bad mouth phil but I would never load myslef up like that. If I cant make a deadline I wont promise it. Id rather be able to spend the neccesary time on a product or service to make sure its top notch and keeps the customer coming back. Im not saying they dont do that, but a work load likes that comes with higher likelyhood of it.

Also when I call somebody I tell them what I want or would like, and its usually not outrageous unless I have the money to pay out the ******* for it and I listen to what the expert says. Im not a head porter so why would I argue with my head guy or cam guy on the best way to achieve my goals. If I thought I didnt need them Id do it myslef but obviously I cant so Im talking to them. I know all about that cause when people come into my shop and want to argue with me about whats going on, when im 100% sure, ill tell them to be on their way.

I know exactly what your talking about oldss. Their is a certain customer in the nastiest piece of **** riceburner you've ever seen and none of the other guys in the shop would deal with him cause they thought he wouldnt buy anything by the look of the car. a set of tein coilovers, new wheels with R1s (IIRC), sway bars, adjustable ball joints, alignment, full exhaust and a whole bunch of maintenance stuff later they sure did regret not bothering to talk to him.