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Master or the slave cylinder?
Master or the slave cylinder? Ok a little background info first. I recently went from a 4l80e setup to a t56 setup. Its a sixspeed inc lvl 4 trans with a cartek lvl 7 clutch. Like a dummy after installing the master and pedals I couldnt figure out why the pedal wouldnt move so I took the master back out and hooked it to the slave to make sure it worked. Well I pressed the master all the way down and of course it worked and the slave engaged. I figured problem solved I just forgot about the little check valve where the line attaches. Well I got everything installed and the clutch is soft, real soft. I figured it just needed bleed. Well I tried bleeding it with different methods for a couple days and now its even worse from when I started. This is what I have now, The pedal is real soft and the pedal goes down about 1-2in before it ever acts like it wants to make pressure and doesnt ever want to come all the way back up to the top after you let go of it. I can un hook the line from the slave and the pedal is firm all the way to the top. Theres no play what so ever but as soon as I hook it back up its the same thing again. Ive gravity bleed, Ive tried pumping the pedal for 10-15min then crack the bleeder valve and its all clean fluid that comes out. The pedal will then stay stuck to the floor after cracking the vavle until I pull it back up then it takes a good 10-15min before it will even get back to the soft stage again. Ive got the master out to bench bleed it today and try that. Is there any other thing or way Im missing?
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Ok, checked the above link when I got home after I bench bled the master to where it was solid as a rock and all fluid was clear. I bench bled the master with a mighty vac and it defiantly pulled air out. It was stiff. I re installed it back in the car and as soon as I hooked it back to the slave it would be soft with 1-2 of play up top. After 3-4hrs of following the above link with lots of air bubbles removed the pedal is still semi stiff (better then it was) and still has 1-2in or play up top. Sometimes it want even come all the way back to the top, you have to pull it the rest of the way up. Anything else I can try?
i bled mine a couple of ways. I did it by hand with a vice to bleed the MC. What i would do is fill the cup with fluid, then press in the male end of the cconnection with a philips head screwdriver & the fluid would come out. I did this till i refilled the cup about 3x. The mc resivior at the top and the mc at the bottom. I kept the braided line facing down so there wasnt any air going in the line just fluid coming out. then when i put the mc in the car i hooked it up to the slave. Iwould pump the pedal about 20x then i bled it with a breaker 1/4 bar and a socket. i would pump then hold the pedal down and then open the bleeder valve, close bleeder valve then pull up the pedal and contine. This way theres no chance of air getting in the system. it worked for me so try it,
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doesnt sound like a hydraulic problem. rather a problem with the distance from the slave to the clutch or the thickness of the flywheel maybe. with the custom setup you may need an adjustable master.
i'd contact the place who built the setup.
i'd contact the place who built the setup.
Last edited by noriceinside; Nov 1, 2008 at 11:44 PM.
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Verdad Gallardo Thats kinda what I was starting to lean towards. The flywheel is stock and Im not sure if the slave was shimmed or not. Ill put it on the lift next week sometime and pull the trans to take a look
Ok another update. Ive bleed and bleed and bleed with the mighty vac. Pulled a ton of air from the lines, had the master stiff as could be. I thought all was well and left it alone. I was testing it by starting the car and seeing if I could put it in gear and sure enough it worked fine. Well I went to drive it yesterday and all was fine for about half a mile. After that the pedal would have no pressure and I would have to pump it to get pressure only to lose pressure after a couple uses. Now Im thinking its defiantly sucking air somewhere. Does it soud like the master or the slave sucking air? I plan on replacing both if necessary but It will be a week before I can get to pulling the trans.
sounds like the slave to me... as you said you bled and bled and bled the master and it would be solid like a rock but then when you hooked up the slave it started the issue again...
Swapped out the master while ago and same thing still heppening. Pedal has about 2in of play up top and will never get stiff with it hooked to the slave. Guess Ill swap out the slave this weekend or next week.
Off topic, if the pressure plate wasnt torque'd to 22ft lbs would it make a difference on how the clutch dis-ingauges? Im pretty sure I just hit all the 13mm bolts with the impact and didnt torque them to specs.
Off topic, if the pressure plate wasnt torque'd to 22ft lbs would it make a difference on how the clutch dis-ingauges? Im pretty sure I just hit all the 13mm bolts with the impact and didnt torque them to specs.
i don't think it would be a big issue, although if your gonna replace the slave while your in there you might want to torque rather safe than sorry... and i'm pretty sure it is your slave because the master stayed solid then you hooked in the slave and it crapped out on you and now with a new one it pretty much narrows it down g/l hope you get it fixed
i don't think it would be a big issue, although if your gonna replace the slave while your in there you might want to torque rather safe than sorry... and i'm pretty sure it is your slave because the master stayed solid then you hooked in the slave and it crapped out on you and now with a new one it pretty much narrows it down g/l hope you get it fixed
Ok, Im offically fed up with this pile. Nothing seems to work, Ive replaced the master, slave and re-torqued the pressure plate and the POS still want work. The pedal is soft and once again lots of play up top and the clutch will not disengage enough to go in any gear while the car is running. Ive bleed and bleed using numerous methods and not one seems to work. I dont know what else it could be or to try. ive worked on this same issue for over 3 weeks everyday now. Any other suggestions?
so i just reread and you say you believe your sucking air in somewhere? do you have signs of a leak in the master line? how bout the reservoir? what type of master are you using? sounds like there isn't enough pedal travel to move the slave enough... or the slave will not travel enough to push on the pressure plate... someone else said with the custom setup you have you might need an adjustable master or a shim on the slave... perhaps call the clutch manufacturer and see what type of slave would work or if they need a different master... that would be a start... keep us posted i will try to give help but i need as much info as you can give
so i just reread and you say you believe your sucking air in somewhere? do you have signs of a leak in the master line? how bout the reservoir? what type of master are you using? sounds like there isn't enough pedal travel to move the slave enough... or the slave will not travel enough to push on the pressure plate... someone else said with the custom setup you have you might need an adjustable master or a shim on the slave... perhaps call the clutch manufacturer and see what type of slave would work or if they need a different master... that would be a start... keep us posted i will try to give help but i need as much info as you can give
That was before I swapped out the new master and new slave yesterday.
Ill call cartek in the morn and see what they say. Its a brakebest (Orielys) master and and same goes for the slave.
Called cartek and they said the hydraulics need to be modified or I need to buy an adjustable master cylinder. They said they dont modify the stock hydraulics no more. Does anybody know how to modify the master to pump more volume?