Need some help, bleeding clutch hydraulics, I searched(long
04-10-2009, 09:54 AM
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Need some help, bleeding clutch hydraulics, I searched(long I have read a few threads and will continue searching, but I am coming up to a loss on what to do now.
I have a buddies camaro SS that we put a Spec 3 or 3+ in with a spec flywheel. I made sure the pp was bolted in the same location that it came from spec just in case it was balanced. I replaced the TOB assembly with a new one from the dealer based on his VIN and it looked the same, so it should not be a spacing issue with a new revised slave. the back of the slave looked identical to the one we removed and I spoke to Spec as well and they said I should be good to go and just use their spacer.
I thought I would be slick and before bolting the slave back up to the tranny I bled it. I have a hand pump(not the mighty vac) that a friend let me borrow that he uses to bleed brakes and it creates the vac. and pulls the fluid through. so I did this with the slave connected to the line and just hanging their. I also removed the pump and just let it gravity bleed as well to make sure it appeared to flow ok.
well, that didn't work and I didn't expect it to. once everything was back together the clutch pedal went to the floor and stayed. after reading some threads this seemed normal and I just needed to bleed it.
We have tried a couple techniques. at we pumped the pedal to build pressure and cracked the bleeder and closed it as depressing the clutch. I read on here that was not correct, so we did the other way where you crack the bleeder, depress clutch and close bleeder. while doing either of these processes I am able to get it into gear, it does not like going in gear. I pretty much have to force it and sometimes while trying to go in gear the car wants to try and roll forward a little. my friend who was helping has experience, but in the past on most other hydraulic clutches, once the pedal is firm all the way to the floor, it is good to go. currently the pedal has less than 1/2" of play at the top and then it is firm all the way to the floor, but it is not fully disengaging the clutch since it isn't going into gear smooth.
I didn't drill a hole in the floor board. I am just using a 1/4 drive wrench and socket.
we have spent about 2hrs now trying to bleed this thing. a ranger I worked on a few months ago took 45min and I understand it does take time, but it just doesn't seem like it is getting any better after the first hour was completed. my friend helping thinks we need to pump it in order to build the pressure and keep the pedal firm.
Since we were able to get it in gear, we drove it hoping that would help, but it didn't do anything.
I am not sure anymore and really wanted to get this done by tonight for him. I followed all the torq specs in the FAQ and believe the install is all done correctly as I have done 20-30+ clutch installs on mustangs(I know not hyraulic pre 05') and have done a c6, hydraulic ranger and now this SS.
any help would be great.
thanks
I have a buddies camaro SS that we put a Spec 3 or 3+ in with a spec flywheel. I made sure the pp was bolted in the same location that it came from spec just in case it was balanced. I replaced the TOB assembly with a new one from the dealer based on his VIN and it looked the same, so it should not be a spacing issue with a new revised slave. the back of the slave looked identical to the one we removed and I spoke to Spec as well and they said I should be good to go and just use their spacer.
I thought I would be slick and before bolting the slave back up to the tranny I bled it. I have a hand pump(not the mighty vac) that a friend let me borrow that he uses to bleed brakes and it creates the vac. and pulls the fluid through. so I did this with the slave connected to the line and just hanging their. I also removed the pump and just let it gravity bleed as well to make sure it appeared to flow ok.
well, that didn't work and I didn't expect it to. once everything was back together the clutch pedal went to the floor and stayed. after reading some threads this seemed normal and I just needed to bleed it.
We have tried a couple techniques. at we pumped the pedal to build pressure and cracked the bleeder and closed it as depressing the clutch. I read on here that was not correct, so we did the other way where you crack the bleeder, depress clutch and close bleeder. while doing either of these processes I am able to get it into gear, it does not like going in gear. I pretty much have to force it and sometimes while trying to go in gear the car wants to try and roll forward a little. my friend who was helping has experience, but in the past on most other hydraulic clutches, once the pedal is firm all the way to the floor, it is good to go. currently the pedal has less than 1/2" of play at the top and then it is firm all the way to the floor, but it is not fully disengaging the clutch since it isn't going into gear smooth.
I didn't drill a hole in the floor board. I am just using a 1/4 drive wrench and socket.
we have spent about 2hrs now trying to bleed this thing. a ranger I worked on a few months ago took 45min and I understand it does take time, but it just doesn't seem like it is getting any better after the first hour was completed. my friend helping thinks we need to pump it in order to build the pressure and keep the pedal firm.
Since we were able to get it in gear, we drove it hoping that would help, but it didn't do anything.
I am not sure anymore and really wanted to get this done by tonight for him. I followed all the torq specs in the FAQ and believe the install is all done correctly as I have done 20-30+ clutch installs on mustangs(I know not hyraulic pre 05') and have done a c6, hydraulic ranger and now this SS.
any help would be great.
thanks
Last edited by trbo vnm; 04-10-2009 at 10:06 AM.
04-10-2009, 01:53 PM
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Did you measure the air gap for the clutch? My Spec 3+ didn't need the spacer. Anyway, get a Mighty Vac and bleed the clutch. Took me 10-15 minutes and the pedal feels fine.
04-10-2009, 01:59 PM
#3
It seems like you have followed the normal rabbits associated with bleeding these hydraulic systems (vacuum and gravity bleeding) but haven't seen the pedal fully firm up or the clutch fully release. This mayes me wonder if this isn't the result of a faulty master cylinder that is bleeding by or aerating internally. This is possible at any rate and it isn't something you have really looked at thus far. Because we check every unit for stack height and actuation (overall function) before shipping I wouldn't think that this was the result of the assembly. Bu, if you wanted to check this you could measure the stack height of the total assembly (this is done by bolting the clutch to the flywheel and measuring the distance from the crank mounting surface on the back of the flywheel to the top of the diaphragm fingers). The correct measurement is 3.120".
The other thing that comes to mind is using a mighty-vac to pull fluid from reservior. If there were air in the upper portion of system that was not being pulled through the bleeder off the slave this could help. Give it a try and let me know what you find. I am here until 5pm and you can post, email, or call me for faster assistance. Thanks!
The other thing that comes to mind is using a mighty-vac to pull fluid from reservior. If there were air in the upper portion of system that was not being pulled through the bleeder off the slave this could help. Give it a try and let me know what you find. I am here until 5pm and you can post, email, or call me for faster assistance. Thanks!
04-10-2009, 02:16 PM
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thanks guys. I would think if you didn't need the spacer, but did use one, it would dissengage more than enough. Or would this cause the TOB to over extend causing other issues?
I need to see if I even still have my mighty vac. if not, I can pick up another, but then I run into a space issue up there.
I hope I don't need to remove the tranny again. not a big deal, just more of a delay. I am going to probably pick up this tool from snap on that is like a video camera on a flexible hose and allows me to see how the TOB and slave are functioning. I should be able to stick the hose where the bleeder is or line connect.
I need to see if I even still have my mighty vac. if not, I can pick up another, but then I run into a space issue up there.
I hope I don't need to remove the tranny again. not a big deal, just more of a delay. I am going to probably pick up this tool from snap on that is like a video camera on a flexible hose and allows me to see how the TOB and slave are functioning. I should be able to stick the hose where the bleeder is or line connect.
04-10-2009, 02:25 PM
#5
If you didn't need the spacer but had installed it, you would have engagement at the very top of the pedal travel and in most instances would be dealing with slippage...which is converse of a clutch that doesn't release. To test this theory you can depress the pedal 1/2 or even 3/4 of its full travel and see if the clutch is released. If it isn't then you aren't over-extending or pushing through the clutch and seeing the lack of release occur as a subsequent result of pushing through the pivot.
04-17-2009, 12:00 AM
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ok, so after about 3+ hrs of bleeding the slave I borrowed a small video camera from my snap on guy and saw that the tob was moving enough to disengage the clutch. But still it was a pain to get into gear and barely could get it into 5th, 6th or reverse.
after talking to Jeremy a few times at Spec, I recommended do the car owner to get a new master cylinder since this one was 10yrs old. so he bought the Tick adjustable and we got it today and installed it. Problem solved.
so just a bit of advice to those doing a clutch, if your master is pretty old, I would recommend replacing it along with the slave. looks like most people are going with the Tick P. piece anyway. definitely a nice upgrade.
Thanks again Jeremy.
after talking to Jeremy a few times at Spec, I recommended do the car owner to get a new master cylinder since this one was 10yrs old. so he bought the Tick adjustable and we got it today and installed it. Problem solved.
so just a bit of advice to those doing a clutch, if your master is pretty old, I would recommend replacing it along with the slave. looks like most people are going with the Tick P. piece anyway. definitely a nice upgrade.
Thanks again Jeremy.
