PICTURES of measuring for shim, and bench testing setups, good tech....
10-26-2009, 03:20 PM
#21
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Yeah, that might not be such a good idea...
Derek they were just talking about freeplay in that diagram. Ahh, ok...yeah, I just briefly looked at it for a sec, and was like, hmmmm When I measured mine, I had 3/16 of an inch gap or freeplay with an LS7 clutch.
Wow that's over 3/4 of an inch... and all the way up to... close to an inch of travel... that you're talking about ! Yep, still trying to figure out a way that I can actually measure travel with everything together though...clutch/PP/tranny/TOB/slave, etc..
Eventhough I figured out a system that works for me on my F-body, I've never owned a car that has such a picky clutch/hydraulic system. I feel bad to see so many post everyday regarding clutch install issues.
You know ...
I have two small trucks with manual transmissions and almost every car or truck that I've owned had a manual transmission. I would basically just pull the tranny, replace and/or bleed the hydraulics, reinstall the tranny and go.
Yes, me too. I jsut did a slave and MC install on my Cummins 1 ton @ 6 months ago, and same thing...installed it, bled it and away I went...
With the above said, not many cars have the hydraulics wrapped around the input shaft either. ( I can't see how that should matter, but ???)
Well, teh only thing I can see is the fact that we (LS1) have no fork, and teh leverage on teh slave might be MORE on our slave/TOB setup, over the slave pushing on a clutch fork setup...MAYBE????? Only a guess, and nothing more on my part there...
Some of the other aftermarket clutches requiring a shim has baffled me since getting into 4th Gen F-bodies. What's the reason to change the geometry ?
Well, not so much as changing geometry, as it is travel (or lack of) is why teh need for a shim. You get a slave/TOB to far back, and with limited travel, need to shim the slave forward to regain some of that travel. Now, why do some need it, and others don't? Not really sure, other than how they are manufactured. I know Steve (Monster) have our clutches setup with a set stack height (he measures flywheel/disc/PP height) on all teh clutches that go out teh door, and knowing that the slave/TOB does not change MUCH, is why he says no need for a shim on the Monster. Now, some may argue since I said that, and from what we have seen above (the differences in slaves) that one could say, well, maybe a Monster needs a shim (or at least to measure for one anyways). Well, I can say this, when I am doing an install, I don't want to be pulling a trany any more than I have to, so I measure anyways. I have yet to install a shim (or needed one) on a Monster. Now, I did a clutch install on a customers car a couple/few weeks ago that brought me a clutch, that DID need one...it was actually 3/8" off.
Even the LS7 clutch has had epidemic problems with the low peddle syndrom.
( me included until I installed a Tick m/c ) that's been over 4000 miles ago.
This is great information that you have posted here, I was just trying to help with a link from another sticky.
Oh I know, and thanks for ANY and ALL info you can share...thanks. Again, this is what this thread, and just about any other thread I start, is for purely helping others out, so if someone can add some well needed input/info, I am all for it.!
.
Wow that's over 3/4 of an inch... and all the way up to... close to an inch of travel... that you're talking about ! Yep, still trying to figure out a way that I can actually measure travel with everything together though...clutch/PP/tranny/TOB/slave, etc..
Eventhough I figured out a system that works for me on my F-body, I've never owned a car that has such a picky clutch/hydraulic system. I feel bad to see so many post everyday regarding clutch install issues.
You know ...
I have two small trucks with manual transmissions and almost every car or truck that I've owned had a manual transmission. I would basically just pull the tranny, replace and/or bleed the hydraulics, reinstall the tranny and go.
Yes, me too. I jsut did a slave and MC install on my Cummins 1 ton @ 6 months ago, and same thing...installed it, bled it and away I went...
With the above said, not many cars have the hydraulics wrapped around the input shaft either. ( I can't see how that should matter, but ???)
Well, teh only thing I can see is the fact that we (LS1) have no fork, and teh leverage on teh slave might be MORE on our slave/TOB setup, over the slave pushing on a clutch fork setup...MAYBE????? Only a guess, and nothing more on my part there...
Some of the other aftermarket clutches requiring a shim has baffled me since getting into 4th Gen F-bodies. What's the reason to change the geometry ?
Well, not so much as changing geometry, as it is travel (or lack of) is why teh need for a shim. You get a slave/TOB to far back, and with limited travel, need to shim the slave forward to regain some of that travel. Now, why do some need it, and others don't? Not really sure, other than how they are manufactured. I know Steve (Monster) have our clutches setup with a set stack height (he measures flywheel/disc/PP height) on all teh clutches that go out teh door, and knowing that the slave/TOB does not change MUCH, is why he says no need for a shim on the Monster. Now, some may argue since I said that, and from what we have seen above (the differences in slaves) that one could say, well, maybe a Monster needs a shim (or at least to measure for one anyways). Well, I can say this, when I am doing an install, I don't want to be pulling a trany any more than I have to, so I measure anyways. I have yet to install a shim (or needed one) on a Monster. Now, I did a clutch install on a customers car a couple/few weeks ago that brought me a clutch, that DID need one...it was actually 3/8" off.
Even the LS7 clutch has had epidemic problems with the low peddle syndrom.
( me included until I installed a Tick m/c ) that's been over 4000 miles ago.
This is great information that you have posted here, I was just trying to help with a link from another sticky.
Oh I know, and thanks for ANY and ALL info you can share...thanks. Again, this is what this thread, and just about any other thread I start, is for purely helping others out, so if someone can add some well needed input/info, I am all for it.!
.
What clutch? How old? New? Stock bellhousing? What are using to measure?
10-26-2009, 04:03 PM
#22
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Originally Posted by Gen414
Well, not so much as changing geometry, as it is travel (or lack of) is why teh need for a shim. You get a slave/TOB to far back, and with limited travel, need to shim the slave forward to regain some of that travel. Now, why do some need it, and others don't? Not really sure, other than how they are manufactured. I know Steve (Monster) have our clutches setup with a set stack height (he measures flywheel/disc/PP height) on all teh clutches that go out teh door, and knowing that the slave/TOB does not change MUCH, is why he says no need for a shim on the Monster. Now, some may argue since I said that, and from what we have seen above (the differences in slaves) that one could say, well, maybe a Monster needs a shim (or at least to measure for one anyways). Well, I can say this, when I am doing an install, I don't want to be pulling a trany any more than I have to, so I measure anyways. I have yet to install a shim (or needed one) on a Monster. Now, I did a clutch install on a customers car a couple/few weeks ago that brought me a clutch, that DID need one...it was actually 3/8" off.
Steve has done an excellent job with the Monster clutches. He's done everything in his power to make the installation as easy as possible. I would think needing a shim for a Monster clutch would be extremely rare but can't be helped when someting is out 3/8". So it seems the slaves and throwout bearing can be different sizes... I wonder if even the same type of stock bellhousings can vary in depth from one to the other. Lets say even an 1/8" and than you get a slave that's different than the one you took out... Imagine the possibilities.
Gen414 you are an asset to our community here and you always go out of your way to help. I also think this will greatly increase you business. ( not that you need it ) but it never hurts to have a good flow of happy customers. There was a post last night where a guy was having alot of trouble with his T56 ( I felt bad for the guy ) so I suggested that he contact you... He was even in Texas too.
.
Last edited by bearcatt; 11-23-2009 at 12:23 PM.
10-27-2009, 09:50 AM
#23
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Steve has done an excellent job with the Monster clutches. He's done everything in his power to make the installation as easy as possible. I would think needing a shim for a Monster clutch would be extremely rare but can't be helped when someting is out 3/8'. (just to clarify, the Monster was not off by 3/8", it was a clutch from another company that customer brought me to install) So it seems the slaves and throwout bearing can be different sizes... I wonder if even the same type of stock bellhousings can vary in depth from one to the other. Lets say even an 1/8" and than you get a slave that's different than the one you took out... Imagine the possibilities.
Gen414 you are an asset to our community here and you always go out of your way to help. I also think this will greatly increase you business. ( not that you need it ) but it never hurts to have a good flow of happy customers. There was a post last night where a guy was having alot of trouble with his T56 ( I felt bad for the guy ) so I suggested that he contact you... He was even in Texas too.
.
Gen414 you are an asset to our community here and you always go out of your way to help. I also think this will greatly increase you business. ( not that you need it ) but it never hurts to have a good flow of happy customers. There was a post last night where a guy was having alot of trouble with his T56 ( I felt bad for the guy ) so I suggested that he contact you... He was even in Texas too.
.
Well, I have meaured a few stock bells, and they have all been within @ .020" of one another (but STILL different, yes)
Thanks for the comments, really appreciated. Again, I do try and help out as much as possible, and some may notice that I have not been on the site as much as I was, and it is because of the flood of PM's/Emails/phone calls I now get, asking questions. So, I spend A LOT of time answering questions "behind closed doors". Which, I don't mind what so ever, as that is what I am here for.
I appreciate you recommending people to me, and you can ask anyone that has dealt with me, it does NOT go un-noticed.
Thanks
10-27-2009, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Gen414
Thanks for the comments, really appreciated. Again, I do try and help out as much as possible, and some may notice that I have not been on the site as much as I was, and it is because of the flood of PM's/Emails/phone calls I now get, asking questions. So, I spend A LOT of time answering questions "behind closed doors". Which, I don't mind what so ever, as that is what I am here for.
I appreciate you recommending people to me, and you can ask anyone that has dealt with me, it does NOT go un-noticed.
Thanks
I appreciate you recommending people to me, and you can ask anyone that has dealt with me, it does NOT go un-noticed.
Thanks
I think they will be in good hands.
.
10-27-2009, 12:07 PM
#25
Haha....well come on down anyways! wait till I get a running motor on that stand, and that thing is singing along @ 6500RPM right there on a work bench Yeah, that might not be such a good idea...
Well, you might want to look into a possible problem with teh clutch itself...OR, are you sure that you took the right measurements? Reason I say that is, I have YET to come across that situation....
What clutch? How old? New? Stock bellhousing? What are using to measure?
Yeah, that might not be such a good idea...Well, you might want to look into a possible problem with teh clutch itself...OR, are you sure that you took the right measurements? Reason I say that is, I have YET to come across that situation....
What clutch? How old? New? Stock bellhousing? What are using to measure?
but i have a TR6060( t56 magnum), quick time bell housing, mcleod twin disk ( the $1200 one), gm slave( is this a good idea). and getting tick master
10-28-2009, 08:49 AM
#26
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Well, to be honest with you, the only thing I know to do, or what it could be, would be a defective clutch setup.
Now, I could be wrong on that, but since all other variables are teh same...bellhousing, crankshaft mounting depth.
Now, lets take it piece by piece after that, that COULD affect mounting depth:
Flywheel...well, VERY unlikely that a fly is super thicker than other fly's, and if anything, would be THINNER (got turned down) which would HELP in that matter. So, would say that 99% chance the fly could not affect it in this way (causing to much depth)
Clutch disc, well the disc COULD be manucfactured too thick, so that could be a source of the/a problem.
PP, well, that is really the part that I look at as being the probable cause in something like this. As, where teh fingers (PP) are measured from to teh bell, is your source of mounting distance. So, if the fingers are not pulled in enough, your stack height is gonna be too much, and cause an interference with TOB/slave.
Now, I also know, after talking with Steve @ Monster and Spec-01 (even though he is a "competitor" of mine, we are "friends" and I will be the first to say that he is a very good source for information and tech on clutches) that over extending a PP, it can and will lead to PP damage AND clutch RE-engagement (missed shifts).
In short, if anything, I like to setup my clutches (slave/TOB to PP) on teh loose side, when at all possible. Not TOO loose of course....
Being too tight can lead to premature wear/slippage...
Now, I could be wrong on that, but since all other variables are teh same...bellhousing, crankshaft mounting depth.
Now, lets take it piece by piece after that, that COULD affect mounting depth:
Flywheel...well, VERY unlikely that a fly is super thicker than other fly's, and if anything, would be THINNER (got turned down) which would HELP in that matter. So, would say that 99% chance the fly could not affect it in this way (causing to much depth)
Clutch disc, well the disc COULD be manucfactured too thick, so that could be a source of the/a problem.
PP, well, that is really the part that I look at as being the probable cause in something like this. As, where teh fingers (PP) are measured from to teh bell, is your source of mounting distance. So, if the fingers are not pulled in enough, your stack height is gonna be too much, and cause an interference with TOB/slave.
Now, I also know, after talking with Steve @ Monster and Spec-01 (even though he is a "competitor" of mine, we are "friends" and I will be the first to say that he is a very good source for information and tech on clutches) that over extending a PP, it can and will lead to PP damage AND clutch RE-engagement (missed shifts).
In short, if anything, I like to setup my clutches (slave/TOB to PP) on teh loose side, when at all possible. Not TOO loose of course....
Being too tight can lead to premature wear/slippage...
10-29-2009, 03:34 PM
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Yes, .125 over .100. BUT, I would not worry at all if I came in @ .100 though. Basically (just opinion here, as I have NO actual data on this to support my theory) I believe that @ .030 is the limit, and might even lean towrads closer to .050 being too tight. Lets just sat that, @ .075-.125 is a good sweet spot.
Now, some of you MAY have installed a clutch, and came in @ .050 and been OK. I have not been that tight yet, EXCEPT right now, am working on a customer car, and we came in at .035 and his clutch is having a problem dis-engaging. NOW, do I know that teh .035 is causing this? NO, not yet. But, after looking at everything else...we have come up with that as a possibility.
So far, when I yanked it apart (customer did first install) the PB was not flush, so i drove that in more. Also, slave bolts were loose (midplate holes were stripped out) so we replaced that. Also, found out his speed bleeder was leaking @ bleeder valve AFTER teh fact. I also popped open the tranny, and found nothing.
So, we are gonna put back together tomorrow after finding these problems, AND get it bled correctly and see what happens. we ARE putting it back in with the clearance set at .035 though...so, if we get it back together and everything else is done, the .035 HAS to be teh culprit at that point.
So, wish us luck....
10-30-2009, 10:57 PM
#29
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OK guys, got the above car all worked out.
I swapped slaves, and we ended up with @ .065. Now, guys, I want you to pay attention to this, VERY good info.
BEFORE we tore into this, I told customer to buy new MC. Which he did, installed it, no good. In fact, he said it was WORSE.
OK, fast forward.
I got everything setup, trans/clutch in car, etc...
First thing I notice is the clutch pedal is a little bit lower than brake pedal. Hop in, no travel. Felt liek as soon as PP was GONNA dis-engage, pedal hit teh floor. Well, bled and bled and bled and bled....NO DICE. So, start tossing ideas around, and decide to MEASURE old MC (still had it), and then measure NEW MC. OK, get this...the NEW MC was @ .060 SHORTER (tip of rod to face of MC, where rod goes into MC) Now, most would not have noticed this with naked eye, and even when lying side by side, not noticeable, unless you REALLY looked.
So, SURELY not gonna make that much of a difference in pedal height....WRONG!
Put OLD MC back on, and it brought clutch pedal back up above teh brake pedal..YEP! Got it bled, and bada bing, bada boom...shifts like butter!!
SOOOOOO, what i am saying is that ALL MC's are NOT the same.....go figure. So, now we have slaves that's measure out differently, we now have MC's that are longer/shorter than others....no wonder hard to get our hydro's in line on our cars. Sheesh!
I swapped slaves, and we ended up with @ .065. Now, guys, I want you to pay attention to this, VERY good info.
BEFORE we tore into this, I told customer to buy new MC. Which he did, installed it, no good. In fact, he said it was WORSE.
OK, fast forward.
I got everything setup, trans/clutch in car, etc...
First thing I notice is the clutch pedal is a little bit lower than brake pedal. Hop in, no travel. Felt liek as soon as PP was GONNA dis-engage, pedal hit teh floor. Well, bled and bled and bled and bled....NO DICE. So, start tossing ideas around, and decide to MEASURE old MC (still had it), and then measure NEW MC. OK, get this...the NEW MC was @ .060 SHORTER (tip of rod to face of MC, where rod goes into MC) Now, most would not have noticed this with naked eye, and even when lying side by side, not noticeable, unless you REALLY looked.
So, SURELY not gonna make that much of a difference in pedal height....WRONG!
Put OLD MC back on, and it brought clutch pedal back up above teh brake pedal..YEP! Got it bled, and bada bing, bada boom...shifts like butter!!
SOOOOOO, what i am saying is that ALL MC's are NOT the same.....go figure. So, now we have slaves that's measure out differently, we now have MC's that are longer/shorter than others....no wonder hard to get our hydro's in line on our cars. Sheesh!
10-30-2009, 11:30 PM
#30
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OK guys, got the above car all worked out.
I swapped slaves, and we ended up with @ .065. Now, guys, I want you to pay attention to this, VERY good info.
BEFORE we tore into this, I told customer to buy new MC. Which he did, installed it, no good. In fact, he said it was WORSE.
OK, fast forward.
I got everything setup, trans/clutch in car, etc...
First thing I notice is the clutch pedal is a little bit lower than brake pedal. Hop in, no travel. Felt liek as soon as PP was GONNA dis-engage, pedal hit teh floor. Well, bled and bled and bled and bled....NO DICE. So, start tossing ideas around, and decide to MEASURE old MC (still had it), and then measure NEW MC. OK, get this...the NEW MC was @ .060 SHORTER (tip of rod to face of MC, where rod goes into MC) Now, most would not have noticed this with naked eye, and even when lying side by side, not noticeable, unless you REALLY looked.
So, SURELY not gonna make that much of a difference in pedal height....WRONG!
Put OLD MC back on, and it brought clutch pedal back up above teh brake pedal..YEP! Got it bled, and bada bing, bada boom...shifts like butter!!
SOOOOOO, what i am saying is that ALL MC's are NOT the same.....go figure. So, now we have slaves that's measure out differently, we now have MC's that are longer/shorter than others....no wonder hard to get our hydro's in line on our cars. Sheesh!
I swapped slaves, and we ended up with @ .065. Now, guys, I want you to pay attention to this, VERY good info.
BEFORE we tore into this, I told customer to buy new MC. Which he did, installed it, no good. In fact, he said it was WORSE.
OK, fast forward.
I got everything setup, trans/clutch in car, etc...
First thing I notice is the clutch pedal is a little bit lower than brake pedal. Hop in, no travel. Felt liek as soon as PP was GONNA dis-engage, pedal hit teh floor. Well, bled and bled and bled and bled....NO DICE. So, start tossing ideas around, and decide to MEASURE old MC (still had it), and then measure NEW MC. OK, get this...the NEW MC was @ .060 SHORTER (tip of rod to face of MC, where rod goes into MC) Now, most would not have noticed this with naked eye, and even when lying side by side, not noticeable, unless you REALLY looked.
So, SURELY not gonna make that much of a difference in pedal height....WRONG!
Put OLD MC back on, and it brought clutch pedal back up above teh brake pedal..YEP! Got it bled, and bada bing, bada boom...shifts like butter!!
SOOOOOO, what i am saying is that ALL MC's are NOT the same.....go figure. So, now we have slaves that's measure out differently, we now have MC's that are longer/shorter than others....no wonder hard to get our hydro's in line on our cars. Sheesh!
HAHAHA nice to have inconsistancies in parts that are so important.
So many of us including myself have banged our heads against the wall pulling our trannies in and out multiple times, trying to get our cars to shift right.
Perhaps most of these related problems have all been due to the differences in the master and slave cylinders.
The part about this being good information is an understatement... I mean this has been going on for years with no real understanding of the reasons why.
.
10-30-2009, 11:49 PM
#31
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HAHAHA nice to have inconsistancies in parts that are so important.
So many of us including myself have banged our heads against the wall pulling our trannies in and out multiple times, trying to get our cars to shift right.
Perhaps most of these related problems have all been due to the differences in the master and slave cylinders.
The part about this being good information is an understatement... I mean this has been going on for years with no real understanding of the reasons why.
.
So many of us including myself have banged our heads against the wall pulling our trannies in and out multiple times, trying to get our cars to shift right.
Perhaps most of these related problems have all been due to the differences in the master and slave cylinders.
The part about this being good information is an understatement... I mean this has been going on for years with no real understanding of the reasons why.
.
You got that right Bearcatt!!! I just started another thread with more details and what happened, as I felt this customers car was "new thread" worthy, AND I wanted to give my .02 again on the TICK Vs Stock MC debate again.
Yep, I am SLOOOOOOOOWWWWWWLLLLLLLYYYYY getting the "bugs" out, and hey before you know it, we won't have any more problems
OK, loonngg day for me....hitting the rack...hit up that other thread catt and tell me what ya think...
10-31-2009, 12:12 AM
#32
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You got that right Bearcatt!!! I just started another thread with more details and what happened, as I felt this customers car was "new thread" worthy, AND I wanted to give my .02 again on the TICK Vs Stock MC debate again.
Yep, I am SLOOOOOOOOWWWWWWLLLLLLLYYYYY getting the "bugs" out, and hey before you know it, we won't have any more problems
OK, loonngg day for me....hitting the rack...hit up that other thread catt and tell me what ya think...
Yep, I am SLOOOOOOOOWWWWWWLLLLLLLYYYYY getting the "bugs" out, and hey before you know it, we won't have any more problems
OK, loonngg day for me....hitting the rack...hit up that other thread catt and tell me what ya think...
Ok I'll hit up that other thread. I would like to share my Tick m/c experience.
I'm to tired now, I can hardly type so I'll log in tommorrow.
.
.
11-20-2009, 04:27 PM
#34
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is there a way to measure this without bolting the flywheel and clutch into the car?
the reason is im doing a auto to t56 swap and id like to have everything i need while i install since its my DD
the reason is im doing a auto to t56 swap and id like to have everything i need while i install since its my DD
11-21-2009, 10:37 AM
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Well, if you have your motor setup on a work bench you can. But, you HAVE to measure with a bellhousing (one you are using) attached to a motor, along with flywheel clutch setup.
Now, you can (of course) measure your distance of teh TOB/slave to face of tranny with it not being in the car (and is the ONLY way to do it as well)
11-23-2009, 07:30 AM
#38
AWESOME info!! My first time ever playing with a clutch was during my 2nd swap into my 86. And that was only removing the old SPEC and installing an LS7. Otherwise...Im pretty clutch dumb.
Ive read in Tick's threads where they've mentioned adjusting their master cylinder TOO far, so that you are overthrowing the slave/PP. Is there any way to determine this limit or know when you are pushing too much fluid from an aftermarket master like the Tick?
My car is a thirdgen...so my pedal doesnt travel exactly like it does in the 4th gens. So I cant really go by exactly what most guys do. I figured Ide ask in this thread...since it sorta deals with "under"travel/shimming...and Im asking about the other side of the spectrum.
J.
Ive read in Tick's threads where they've mentioned adjusting their master cylinder TOO far, so that you are overthrowing the slave/PP. Is there any way to determine this limit or know when you are pushing too much fluid from an aftermarket master like the Tick?
My car is a thirdgen...so my pedal doesnt travel exactly like it does in the 4th gens. So I cant really go by exactly what most guys do. I figured Ide ask in this thread...since it sorta deals with "under"travel/shimming...and Im asking about the other side of the spectrum.
J.
11-23-2009, 12:21 PM
#39
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You may get it done over thanksgiving, but the clutch systems on our cars can be very fickle.
If you have the right combination of parts and a little luck, everything might work and go smooth the first time...
Otherwise you might end up doing it a second time.
.
Last edited by bearcatt; 11-25-2009 at 11:19 AM.
11-25-2009, 09:40 AM
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maybe I missed something, but not sure how you plan on doing this without a motor. If trying to have all parts before install, if THAT is what you are looking to do, then best thing I can tell you is to have a shim or 2 on hand, for the"just in case" You can call up Spec-01 (spnsor here on board), and they are @ $10 each give or take a few bucks....
AWESOME info!! My first time ever playing with a clutch was during my 2nd swap into my 86. And that was only removing the old SPEC and installing an LS7. Otherwise...Im pretty clutch dumb.
Ive read in Tick's threads where they've mentioned adjusting their master cylinder TOO far, so that you are overthrowing the slave/PP. Is there any way to determine this limit or know when you are pushing too much fluid from an aftermarket master like the Tick?
My car is a thirdgen...so my pedal doesnt travel exactly like it does in the 4th gens. So I cant really go by exactly what most guys do. I figured Ide ask in this thread...since it sorta deals with "under"travel/shimming...and Im asking about the other side of the spectrum.
J.
Ive read in Tick's threads where they've mentioned adjusting their master cylinder TOO far, so that you are overthrowing the slave/PP. Is there any way to determine this limit or know when you are pushing too much fluid from an aftermarket master like the Tick?
My car is a thirdgen...so my pedal doesnt travel exactly like it does in the 4th gens. So I cant really go by exactly what most guys do. I figured Ide ask in this thread...since it sorta deals with "under"travel/shimming...and Im asking about the other side of the spectrum.
J.
Well, I know they have info on how to adjust their MC properly somewhere in a thread, but I am not that familiar with it (yet). Even though the guys at Tick and I are trying to work together on some things to help better serve teh LS1 community, I can tell you that!
Yeah, agreed. VERY finicky, our setups are. If you take your time, do it right, and measure...SHOULD be OK.
HAPPY THANKSGIVING PEOPLE!!!!!