3-4 synchro upgraded springs... install question!
#1
3-4 synchro upgraded springs... install question!
I am using 3-4 billet keys and upgraded springs from the gear box and need some help. The springs have a "hook" or "tang" on each end, while the stock springs only had the hook on one end. Am I supposed to put the hook around the 1st and 3rd keys? If I do this, then the middle 2nd key doesn't get much of any spring pressure on the back of it. Or I can rest the hook on the back of the 3rd key and then this will give some pressure on the middle key. It's almost like the spring is too short. I tried both ways and there was no difference in the slider motion.
I'm leaning towards the first way, so the spring can't rotate and totally release from the 3rd key. Hopefully someone has done this and will have the answer. I emailed the gear box and got an auto reply saying he won't be back for a week.
Here are some pics of the first way I described, with the spring hooks around the 1st and 3rd keys. If you look closely you can see the spring isn't resting on the back of the middle key. I have the springs winding in opposite directions so the middle key on one side isn't the same as the middle key on the other side. So, one key gets spring pressure from both ends, and the other two keys only get spring pressure from one end.
I'm leaning towards the first way, so the spring can't rotate and totally release from the 3rd key. Hopefully someone has done this and will have the answer. I emailed the gear box and got an auto reply saying he won't be back for a week.
Here are some pics of the first way I described, with the spring hooks around the 1st and 3rd keys. If you look closely you can see the spring isn't resting on the back of the middle key. I have the springs winding in opposite directions so the middle key on one side isn't the same as the middle key on the other side. So, one key gets spring pressure from both ends, and the other two keys only get spring pressure from one end.
#2
I can't tell by your pics, but I remember when I did my transmission the keys had slots in them that the end of the spring goes in. I don't remember the end of the spring going all the way around the keys like that.
#3
These are billet keys, they don't have slots, so the spring goes over them.
#5
#6
#7
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#8
Ok, here is a corny illustration I made. I labeled the keys 1, 2, and 3 on both sides of the synchro. I just flipped the synchro over between the two pictures. Key 1 on one side is the same as key 1 on the other side, etc. In these pictures you can see how the spring sits on the keys.
On side 1, the spring starts on key 1 and ends on key 3, giving good spring pressure on these keys on this side. Key 2 doesn't get much pressure at all.
On side 2, keys 2 and 3 get good pressure, and 1 does not.
So, key 3 is the only one with good pressure from the springs on both sides. Keys 1 and 2 only have good pressure on one side. When they sit in the housing, the stronger pressure on one end rotates the key. You can see this in the pictures, the middle key has a gap between it and the housing.
If the springs were just a tad longer this wouldn't be an issue. The upgraded 1-2 springs have hooks on both ends and sit perfectly, even pressure all around. Maybe I'm overthinking it?
The size of the arrows in this picture indicate the amount of spring pressure.
On side 1, the spring starts on key 1 and ends on key 3, giving good spring pressure on these keys on this side. Key 2 doesn't get much pressure at all.
On side 2, keys 2 and 3 get good pressure, and 1 does not.
So, key 3 is the only one with good pressure from the springs on both sides. Keys 1 and 2 only have good pressure on one side. When they sit in the housing, the stronger pressure on one end rotates the key. You can see this in the pictures, the middle key has a gap between it and the housing.
If the springs were just a tad longer this wouldn't be an issue. The upgraded 1-2 springs have hooks on both ends and sit perfectly, even pressure all around. Maybe I'm overthinking it?
The size of the arrows in this picture indicate the amount of spring pressure.
#11
Ok, here is a corny illustration I made. I labeled the keys 1, 2, and 3 on both sides of the synchro. I just flipped the synchro over between the two pictures. Key 1 on one side is the same as key 1 on the other side, etc. In these pictures you can see how the spring sits on the keys.
On side 1, the spring starts on key 1 and ends on key 3, giving good spring pressure on these keys on this side. Key 2 doesn't get much pressure at all.
On side 2, keys 2 and 3 get good pressure, and 1 does not.
So, key 3 is the only one with good pressure from the springs on both sides. Keys 1 and 2 only have good pressure on one side. When they sit in the housing, the stronger pressure on one end rotates the key. You can see this in the pictures, the middle key has a gap between it and the housing.
If the springs were just a tad longer this wouldn't be an issue. The upgraded 1-2 springs have hooks on both ends and sit perfectly, even pressure all around. Maybe I'm overthinking it?
The size of the arrows in this picture indicate the amount of spring pressure.
On side 1, the spring starts on key 1 and ends on key 3, giving good spring pressure on these keys on this side. Key 2 doesn't get much pressure at all.
On side 2, keys 2 and 3 get good pressure, and 1 does not.
So, key 3 is the only one with good pressure from the springs on both sides. Keys 1 and 2 only have good pressure on one side. When they sit in the housing, the stronger pressure on one end rotates the key. You can see this in the pictures, the middle key has a gap between it and the housing.
If the springs were just a tad longer this wouldn't be an issue. The upgraded 1-2 springs have hooks on both ends and sit perfectly, even pressure all around. Maybe I'm overthinking it?
The size of the arrows in this picture indicate the amount of spring pressure.
Last edited by Sales@Tick; 03-19-2012 at 09:21 AM.
#12
On side 2 take the spring off and run it from "1" to "3" in the opposite direction from side 1. So if side one spring makes a backwards "C" then Side 2 should be a regular "C". Key "2" should be middle on both sides. This should equalize the pressure on the springs making them seat correctly.
If I wind it like you said, then yes, the middle key is the same on both sides. But this key will virtually no spring pressure on it, and it will flop around in it's groove because there is nothing pushing on the back of it.
#13
OP,
Call your vendor with your measuring caliper in hand so you can make sure you've the right springs. The gap at the middle key isn't correct.
And as usual, what calhoon said but I digress.
Nope.
Call your vendor with your measuring caliper in hand so you can make sure you've the right springs. The gap at the middle key isn't correct.
And as usual, what calhoon said but I digress.
On side 2 take the spring off and run it from "1" to "3" in the opposite direction from side 1. So if side one spring makes a backwards "C" then Side 2 should be a regular "C". Key "2" should be middle on both sides. This should equalize the pressure on the springs making them seat correctly.
#14
The Gear Box is where I got the parts, and he's gone for a week. Was hoping someone on here would have an answer. Sounds like I'll be waiting for a week.
#15
If you ordered 3-4 and 5-6 billet keys, make sure you're using the correct set.
#16
I believe Matt provided your answer, abet in a subtle way.. It appears you have a 5-6 or Rev spring set on the 3-4 synchro. When you order them, you have to specify which ones you want because the keys are the same, but the springs are different.
If you ordered 3-4 and 5-6 billet keys, make sure you're using the correct set.
If you ordered 3-4 and 5-6 billet keys, make sure you're using the correct set.
Consider this thread on hold until I can get in contact the the gear box. What a bummer
#17
Kevin from TGB got a hold of me and said the springs should be green, and I probably got 5-6/reverse springs. He's going to send me the right springs next week since TGB is closed this week.