Ferocity02

iTrader: (60)

I am using 3-4 billet keys and upgraded springs from the gear box and need some help. The springs have a "hook" or "tang" on each end, while the stock springs only had the hook on one end. Am I supposed to put the hook around the 1st and 3rd keys? If I do this, then the middle 2nd key doesn't get much of any spring pressure on the back of it. Or I can rest the hook on the back of the 3rd key and then this will give some pressure on the middle key. It's almost like the spring is too short. I tried both ways and there was no difference in the slider motion.

I'm leaning towards the first way, so the spring can't rotate and totally release from the 3rd key. Hopefully someone has done this and will have the answer. I emailed the gear box and got an auto reply saying he won't be back for a week.

Here are some pics of the first way I described, with the spring hooks around the 1st and 3rd keys. If you look closely you can see the spring isn't resting on the back of the middle key. I have the springs winding in opposite directions so the middle key on one side isn't the same as the middle key on the other side. So, one key gets spring pressure from both ends, and the other two keys only get spring pressure from one end.

jbruder

iTrader: (1)

I can't tell by your pics, but I remember when I did my transmission the keys had slots in them that the end of the spring goes in. I don't remember the end of the spring going all the way around the keys like that.

Ferocity02

iTrader: (60)

These are billet keys, they don't have slots, so the spring goes over them.

thesource

iTrader: (60)

Yes, they hook around the keys edges.

Ferocity02

iTrader: (60)

Thanks! Is it a problem that the spring doesn't apply much pressure on the back of the middle key?

The pictures on the gear box's site show green 3-4 springs.

85MikeTPI

iTrader: (9)

You wrap the other side spring in the opposite direction and it will equalize the pressure on all 3 springs.

Ferocity02

iTrader: (60)

If I wrap the the springs in opposite directions, then two of the keys have less pressure on one end than the other, if that makes sense.

Ferocity02

iTrader: (60)

Ok, here is a corny illustration I made. I labeled the keys 1, 2, and 3 on both sides of the synchro. I just flipped the synchro over between the two pictures. Key 1 on one side is the same as key 1 on the other side, etc. In these pictures you can see how the spring sits on the keys.

On side 1, the spring starts on key 1 and ends on key 3, giving good spring pressure on these keys on this side. Key 2 doesn't get much pressure at all.

On side 2, keys 2 and 3 get good pressure, and 1 does not.

So, key 3 is the only one with good pressure from the springs on both sides. Keys 1 and 2 only have good pressure on one side. When they sit in the housing, the stronger pressure on one end rotates the key. You can see this in the pictures, the middle key has a gap between it and the housing.

If the springs were just a tad longer this wouldn't be an issue. The upgraded 1-2 springs have hooks on both ends and sit perfectly, even pressure all around. Maybe I'm overthinking it?





The size of the arrows in this picture indicate the amount of spring pressure.

85MikeTPI

iTrader: (9)

And if you net sum the force on both sides, they are equal. Remember the keys are working together, not independently.

calhoon

iTrader: (6)

The real solution would be to use the proper billet keys with the slots milled in them. This would, then, allow you to use the proper spring as well.

Sales@Tick

iTrader: (3)

On side 2 take the spring off and run it from "1" to "3" in the opposite direction from side 1. So if side one spring makes a backwards "C" then Side 2 should be a regular "C". Key "2" should be middle on both sides. This should equalize the pressure on the springs making them seat correctly.

Ferocity02

iTrader: (60)

I thought winding the springs in opposite directions made it so gap in the spring on one side wasn't lined up with the gap in the spring on the other side, essentially making the synchro assembly more balanced. I am winding them like the manual shows, opposite directions so the gap between the start and end of the two springs are offset. Check out the picture.

If I wind it like you said, then yes, the middle key is the same on both sides. But this key will virtually no spring pressure on it, and it will flop around in it's groove because there is nothing pushing on the back of it.

jmd

iTrader: (4)

OP,

Call your vendor with your measuring caliper in hand so you can make sure you've the right springs. The gap at the middle key isn't correct.

And as usual, what calhoon said but I digress.

Nope.

Ferocity02

iTrader: (60)

The Gear Box is where I got the parts, and he's gone for a week. Was hoping someone on here would have an answer. Sounds like I'll be waiting for a week.

85MikeTPI

iTrader: (9)

I believe Matt provided your answer, abet in a subtle way.. It appears you have a 5-6 or Rev spring set on the 3-4 synchro. When you order them, you have to specify which ones you want because the keys are the same, but the springs are different.

If you ordered 3-4 and 5-6 billet keys, make sure you're using the correct set.

Ferocity02

iTrader: (60)

It's the Stage 2 kit, which comes with stock 5-6/reverse keys and springs, and 1-2 and 3-4 billet keys and upgraded springs. These springs were in the bag labeled 3-4 which also had the 3-4 billet keys. There was another bag with the 5-6/reverse stock keys and springs. Perhaps he gave me upgraded 5-6/reverse springs on accident? These aren't stock springs since they have a hook on both ends. And as mentioned, his website shows green 3-4 springs.

Consider this thread on hold until I can get in contact the the gear box. What a bummer

Ferocity02

iTrader: (60)

Kevin from TGB got a hold of me and said the springs should be green, and I probably got 5-6/reverse springs. He's going to send me the right springs next week since TGB is closed this week.