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My advice for most that purchase this clutch from me......if you still have the OEM hydraulics just leave things be and try it that way.....most would be very happy with the overall results and its a little more "stock" in feel with a slight softer pedal and slightly larger engagement window.
Hope this helps!
-Tony
Thanks Tony. Can't wait to get mine. I have the Tick master as I originally planned on using a different custom clutch from Promotion Transmission in Florida but after this thread and talking to you I changed my mind
Originally Posted by HioSSilver
The tick is a 1 inch master. Stock is 7/8
Ok so that's make sense. It pushes more fluid with less pedal movement so the pedal throw is pretty short. Maybe I will look into a pedal stop also but I'll probably use the Tick master since I have it
Darth, you like the Tick master or do you wish you had the stocker?
I like the tick. I had serious issues with the stock pedal randomly only coming halfway up, etc. would sometimes engage at the top, other times just off the bottom. Several stick replacements were the same.
The tick is in the same spot with the same effort every time. I like the consistency
Got mine on Monday! I don't have a build thread for this car yet so I figured I'd throw a couple pics of the clutch up here. Looks like they decided to change the art a little in the past couple months lol. Too bad you can't see this bad boy after it's installed
Stock throw out/release bearing for C5 and F-Body applications....the C6 requires a kit from RPS for $100 or so but its mainly needed due to spacing issues of the bearing
That's a deceiving picture because once the cover and pressure plate are installed, the spring fingers will flatten out more (this happens with all clutches).
I had a single disk 8.5" Quarter Master clutch of very similar design and I had to use a radius faced release bearing, instead of the stock flat style release bearing.
Anyone know how far the spring fingers need to move to achieve full release? I'm guessing around .300".
If that. Less pedal stroke than the monsterS3 I pulled to replace it
See, for me, with a street application, not having enough pedal travel makes for a clutch that's more of an on/off switch, which isn't fun to drive.
I suspect this clutch would work better with a radius faced TOB and a smaller bore MC.
Here is my QM clutch (I know it's not exactly the same, but the design is very similar).
Using a QM tri-lite bearing with a radius face...
This was installed in a second gen RX7 and I used the stock 5/8" bore MC. The pedal effort was so light you could easily press the clutch in by hand and it had nice pedal travel which for me made it easier to modulate.
See, for me, with a street application, not having enough pedal travel makes for a clutch that's more of an on/off switch, which isn't fun to drive.
I suspect this clutch would work better with a radius faced TOB and a smaller bore MC.
Here is my QM clutch (I know it's not exactly the same, but the design is very similar).
It is not an on/off type of engagement window.....granted much shorter than stock but not hard to get accustomed to very quickly. In fact Darth's set-up has the larger bore master making it an even shorter window and he had no problems adjusting to it very quickly cause its very smooth.....it wont chatter....worst case if you too quick with the take up of your foot you bog the engine or even stall it if your really off your game but no chatter.
Its always a give and take....clutches with a larger window requiring more pedal travel wont cleanly disengage as quickly for the fast quick shift you want to get off from time to time. The shorter windows also affords the end user to take advantage of an adjustable pedal stop....for regular shifts around town you just have to breath on the clutch pedal for super clean shifts (less leg movement X lots of shifts!). With the pedal stop adjusted properly WOT shifts are also shorter/quicker because there is less travel to hit the stop which for me was my cue to grab that next gear quickly and slightly lift on the gas at the same time....this reduces total shift times significantly and if you do it right you wont barely loose half a door length to the fast automatic car in the next lane....LOL
It's much harder to do that with a clutch that has more "window" that necessary in it ("window" meaning from starting to grab/engage to fully engaged which in the case of a stock clutch is typically huge with very poor disengagement until your almost to the floorboards).
The older RPS BC2 (one of the earlier prototypes I drove), had a different pressure plate design which required more travel and that clutch really benefited from the larger master to shorten the throw of the pedal and bring it into the sweet spot of enough window to be usable (not on/off) but also good quick clean disengagement without a whole lot of pedal travel which btw also lightens shift effort dramatically (very bonus!) and helps with that speed-shifting which Im a big fan of! This changed with the new design pressure plate and its set-up to be similar to what I experienced with the larger master with only the stock sized master and OEM hydraulics (although you can certainly run the larger master as DarthV8r is doing in his combo and he's still very pleased with the overall performance).
There is so much more to a real performance clutch than most people realize of give thought to!
See, for me, with a street application, not having enough pedal travel makes for a clutch that's more of an on/off switch, which isn't fun to drive.
I suspect this clutch would work better with a radius faced TOB and a smaller bore MC.
Here is my QM clutch (I know it's not exactly the same, but the design is very similar).
Using a QM tri-lite bearing with a radius face...
This was installed in a second gen RX7 and I used the stock 5/8" bore MC. The pedal effort was so light you could easily press the clutch in by hand and it had nice pedal travel which for me made it easier to modulate.
Andrew
Thats the relwase bearing and adapter i use for my tilton.
Really curious to hear some input in terms of the differences, and at what power level you're at!
That RPS unit looks like it's extremely well built. As Tony had mentioned, this is definitely an industry where more often than not, you get what you pay for.
Agreed, all good stuff. A lot of what I wrote really comes down to personal preference.
One thing that I didn't see anyone mention is the increase in shift speed with a clutch that has lower MOI. This was really obvious for me in the RX7 because I went from a LS6 flywheel and clutch to the Quarter Master which was under 20 pounds including flywheel, and I was using a Liberty dogring trans.
With the QM clutch I could just barely graze the clutch pedal, just enough to unload the input shaft, and grab the next gear super fast. With the LS6 clutch you could feel that there is a lot more mass trying to accelerate (+/-) and it had a much heavier/lazier feel.
I have a dogring T56 in my Cougar now and with the LS7 clutch I can once again feel that heavy/lazy feel when shifting. I think something in the 30-35 pound range would be a nice balance for how I use my car (90% street/10% strip).
Andrew, you're spot on with MOI. In this case the friction material is nearly weightless. At least the parts riding on the input shaft are only carbon, so the load on the synchros is very light.
I find it very easy to shift, even odd patterns like 2-6 are very smooth and effortless.
With a stock master, it would probably feel stock. I prefer a very tight, predictable engagement point. Others don't.
Great info in here. That RPS unit looks amazing. I talked with a few of the guys posting in this thread about the lightweight set up. Worth a read for some of the noobs
Expensive as you have already surmised.....$2650 with the CNC perimeter lightening windows (5 lbs of mass removed from the point it will have the greatest impact in inertia improvements).
I do discount them for the folks Im doing business with etc.
FWIW, a similar clutch these guys used to produce (that frankly wasn't even this good) was priced in the low 3K range for years and I sold a handful of them to the few lucky enough to have that type of budget (and they were all thrilled with it). Based on volume and new tooling that reduces machine time RPS is able to offer an even better unit at significantly less (the clutch in question).
Any good dual set-up starts approaching 2K.....this is much more exotic than most and the functionality is off the hook good (as Darth has been commenting on), plus discounted some its even closer to the rest of the better quality duals while offering so much more IMO
PM me if you have an interest but now at least you have an idea of what you can expect etc.
01-11-2016, 07:03 PM
