View Poll Results: Do you guys downshift when decelerating?
Yes, all the time.
232
22.92%
Yeah, most of the time
355
35.08%
Nope, once in awhile though
355
35.08%
Never
70
6.92%
Voters: 1012. You may not vote on this poll
Downshifting
07-03-2007, 02:49 PM
#181
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Originally Posted by Grimes
Exactly.
If you want to downshift this way (ie. "double clutch"):
1. Clutch in, Shift into neutral
3. Clutch out
4. Blip throttle to rev to RPM you will be in lower gear
5. Clutch in, Shift into lower gear
6. Clutch out
If you do this properly and quick enough, you will not get the "lurch" that you normally get when downshifting. Also, the shifter will offer no resistance going to the lower gear.
Exactly.
If you want to downshift this way (ie. "double clutch"):
1. Clutch in, Shift into neutral
3. Clutch out
4. Blip throttle to rev to RPM you will be in lower gear
5. Clutch in, Shift into lower gear
6. Clutch out
If you do this properly and quick enough, you will not get the "lurch" that you normally get when downshifting. Also, the shifter will offer no resistance going to the lower gear.
The only thing i would like to know is why shift to neutral and let clutch out then rev the engine? why cant i do that with the clutch still in? pushing the clutch to the floor and revving is bad for the clutch? say if i was going 70mph and pushed the clutch in, and left it in and in 5th gear all the way to a complete stop then i shift it back to 1st gear.. is that bad for the clutch? i dont do this, i always shift it into neutral then apply brakes, but i was wondering if the above is bad?
07-03-2007, 03:59 PM
#182
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I downshift all the time. havent had any issues my clutchs in the past. one thing i remember(dont know if its been said yet) but if you look in your owners manual there is a part that says to downshift to help the longevity of your brakes. that is in my manual(99 formula) granted not everything in there is the gospel. but most problems with the clutch is because ppl dont know how to use it properly.
07-03-2007, 10:17 PM
#183
Originally Posted by zerofailure
this is probably a stupid question.. but here it goes..
The only thing i would like to know is why shift to neutral and let clutch out then rev the engine? why cant i do that with the clutch still in? pushing the clutch to the floor and revving is bad for the clutch? say if i was going 70mph and pushed the clutch in, and left it in and in 5th gear all the way to a complete stop then i shift it back to 1st gear.. is that bad for the clutch? i dont do this, i always shift it into neutral then apply brakes, but i was wondering if the above is bad?
The only thing i would like to know is why shift to neutral and let clutch out then rev the engine? why cant i do that with the clutch still in? pushing the clutch to the floor and revving is bad for the clutch? say if i was going 70mph and pushed the clutch in, and left it in and in 5th gear all the way to a complete stop then i shift it back to 1st gear.. is that bad for the clutch? i dont do this, i always shift it into neutral then apply brakes, but i was wondering if the above is bad?
Hey, not a stupid question at all. You take your foot off the clutch when in neutral, then rev, in order to get the cluster shaft in the transmission up to speed for the downshift.
If you don't do this, and just hold the clutch in while revving the engine, the engine will be closer to the RPM you wanna be in the lower gear, but the tranny gears will not be.
So, for the best match of engine and tranny speed (and thus smoothness), you should rev the engine when the clutch is up.
Try the "double clutch" a few times as i posted before. when you get it exactly right, and quick enough, your shifter will almost suck itself into the lower gear, and your car will just slow down with no "lurch"
Good luck!
Last edited by Grimes; 07-03-2007 at 10:24 PM.
07-03-2007, 10:25 PM
#184
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Originally Posted by Grimes
hey, not a stupid question at all. you take your foot off the clutch when in neutral, then rev, in order to get the cluster shaft in the transmission up to speed for the downshift.
if you dont do this, and just hold the clutch in while revving the engine, the engine will be closer to the RPM you wanna be in the lower gear, but the tranny gears will not be.
Try the "double clutch" a few times as i posted before. when you get it exactly right, and quick enough, your shifter will almost suck itself into the lower gear, and your car will just slow down with no "lurch"
Good luck!
if you dont do this, and just hold the clutch in while revving the engine, the engine will be closer to the RPM you wanna be in the lower gear, but the tranny gears will not be.
Try the "double clutch" a few times as i posted before. when you get it exactly right, and quick enough, your shifter will almost suck itself into the lower gear, and your car will just slow down with no "lurch"
Good luck!
good anwer!
i once got an old bmw that had bad synchros and i learned to use by double clutching, i tryed it on my camaro when i got it and it pops so smoothly in gears,
07-03-2007, 11:08 PM
#185
Originally Posted by Thule
good anwer!
i once got an old bmw that had bad synchros and i learned to use by double clutching, i tryed it on my camaro when i got it and it pops so smoothly in gears,
i once got an old bmw that had bad synchros and i learned to use by double clutching, i tryed it on my camaro when i got it and it pops so smoothly in gears,
07-07-2007, 01:51 AM
#186
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I do it most of the time. 189k miles and it hasn't seemed to cause me any problem as of yet (149k were after I bought it). I'm sure I'll downshift constantly after I get my Flowmouth put on :>
12-11-2007, 04:40 PM
#191
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Geeze some of you Americans have no idea about driving manual cars, lol 
No serioiusly riding the clutch is BAD as a rule because it's basically slipping it which will case wear. This is up or down shifting.
HOWEVER the key to good driving is smoothness so dumping the clutch is not the best manoeuvre , plus if you do this when slowing down it can cause a lot of stress on the drivetrain and unsettle the car.
But the biggest thing with a manual is you can do most/much of the braking with the engine. This gives you far more control than an automatic. Hence ALL circuit and rally cars are always manual and never auto
So yes you should use the engine to brake. If you are driving quick cross country the you should use the brakes as little as possible because the engine will do the rest.
Heel and toe is a good technique, but difficult to perfect and in some cars near impossible due to pedal locations. But if you can "blip" the throttle between down shifts to match the revs then it won't unsettle the car, this allows a smoother faster transition and cornering ability.
Doing this will not damage the gearbox at all, it is common every day practice. Lorry drivers use this to great affect also as the brakes on a big rig are easy to over heat (least in years gone by).
4th to 2nd gear block changes are common as you can go from high speed to lower speed with plenty of control and enter a corner in the correct gear to accelarate out.
another bonus is fuel efficency. When an engine is coasting and down revving it won't be using any fuel. So by maximising downshifting and engine braking you can increase your mpg.
In my TR7 doing that on a daily 50 mile round commute to work and back I could increase my over all average MPG by 3mpg (24 to 27) which is a pretty big percentage.
No serioiusly riding the clutch is BAD as a rule because it's basically slipping it which will case wear. This is up or down shifting.
HOWEVER the key to good driving is smoothness so dumping the clutch is not the best manoeuvre , plus if you do this when slowing down it can cause a lot of stress on the drivetrain and unsettle the car.
But the biggest thing with a manual is you can do most/much of the braking with the engine. This gives you far more control than an automatic. Hence ALL circuit and rally cars are always manual and never auto
So yes you should use the engine to brake. If you are driving quick cross country the you should use the brakes as little as possible because the engine will do the rest.
Heel and toe is a good technique, but difficult to perfect and in some cars near impossible due to pedal locations. But if you can "blip" the throttle between down shifts to match the revs then it won't unsettle the car, this allows a smoother faster transition and cornering ability.
Doing this will not damage the gearbox at all, it is common every day practice. Lorry drivers use this to great affect also as the brakes on a big rig are easy to over heat (least in years gone by).
4th to 2nd gear block changes are common as you can go from high speed to lower speed with plenty of control and enter a corner in the correct gear to accelarate out.
another bonus is fuel efficency. When an engine is coasting and down revving it won't be using any fuel. So by maximising downshifting and engine braking you can increase your mpg.
In my TR7 doing that on a daily 50 mile round commute to work and back I could increase my over all average MPG by 3mpg (24 to 27) which is a pretty big percentage.
The quickest way to stop is applying your brakes without lock up using 100% of your available traction, period. Downshifting while racing is another story and it still does not provide any extra braking capabilities.
12-14-2007, 06:53 AM
#196
Exactly.
If you want to downshift this way (ie. "double clutch"):
1. Clutch in, Shift into neutral
3. Clutch out
4. Blip throttle to rev to RPM you will be in lower gear
5. Clutch in, Shift into lower gear
6. Clutch out
If you do this properly and quick enough, you will not get the "lurch" that you normally get when downshifting. Also, the shifter will offer no resistance going to the lower gear.
If you want to downshift this way (ie. "double clutch"):
1. Clutch in, Shift into neutral
3. Clutch out
4. Blip throttle to rev to RPM you will be in lower gear
5. Clutch in, Shift into lower gear
6. Clutch out
If you do this properly and quick enough, you will not get the "lurch" that you normally get when downshifting. Also, the shifter will offer no resistance going to the lower gear.
12-14-2007, 07:22 AM
#197
Most of your points are wrong. Fuel efficiency with downshifting? Did you ever bother to look at your tach as your constantly revving the crap out of your motor in lower gears? Even with rev matching there is constant load on your drivetrain and valvetrain. Gears, clutch, and rear end will still wear because of the load applied to it, even if you do it smoothly.
The quickest way to stop is applying your brakes without lock up using 100% of your available traction, period. Downshifting while racing is another story and it still does not provide any extra braking capabilities.
The quickest way to stop is applying your brakes without lock up using 100% of your available traction, period. Downshifting while racing is another story and it still does not provide any extra braking capabilities.
12-14-2007, 08:45 AM
#198
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The fuel efficiency point is partially correct. Downshifting can save gas when you go into Decel Fuel Cutoff. For our cars to do this you have to have the throttle completely closed and you have to be pulling a certain amount of vacuum and be above a certain rpm. The stock settings were 18 kpa manifold pressure to enter DFCO, 25 kpa to exit, above 1900 rpm to enter, exit below 1200 rpm. As long as you're in that region it's more fuel efficient than idling until the fuel cuts back in, usually when you get below 1500 rpm. You can even feel your car cut the fuel cut in and out by how hard its decelerating. By zeroing out your throttle cracker in that region you can actually make your car stay in DFCO longer and get more effective engine braking. With all that being said, I rarely downshift.
brakes are meant to slow your car down not your engine/clutch.
01-08-2008, 04:40 PM
#199
I downshift quite a bit. Did it real good once. Went from the top of 3rd straight to 2nd when i first got the car.....lights got realllllllly dim and it about died...needless to say, i made a point not to do that again.
02-27-2009, 07:32 AM
#200
Downshifting comes naturally to me now, especially when I need to slow down quicker than what the brakes do. If you are a fast shifter you can basically stay on the gas, push in clutch, downshift, release clutch without being hard on the syncros, if anything its like butter when I downshift. When holding the gas just right it blips up to the appropriate RPM. You will know you did a good downshift too since it actually is smoother to get into gear than normal slow shifting. The "notch" feeling is reduced since the syncros are near perfectly aligned.
The problem is this method lends itself more to being planned ahead and for shifts intended on going WOT after the fact. When doing the slow down for turns I tend to heel toe it and it kinda pushes the whole I need to "blip" the throttle into the appropriate rpm then shift.
The problem is this method lends itself more to being planned ahead and for shifts intended on going WOT after the fact. When doing the slow down for turns I tend to heel toe it and it kinda pushes the whole I need to "blip" the throttle into the appropriate rpm then shift.