buschman

I'm sort of at the end of my rope here. I don't know what else to try so I'll lay out what I've done to you guys and see if you have any ideas.

I got a McLeod clutch with adjustable master cylinder from Thunder Racing. I also ordered a 01/02 updated slave cylinder from GMpartsdirect. I started the install last week. It's was trial by error. Had some problems figuring out the master cylinder but finally got it figured out. I was missing some much needed parts, like a clutch alignment tool, so I stopped halfway through and started again this weekend. I got everything all back together and started testing.

My problem is the clutch will not release. It is constantly engaged. My clutch pedal pressure is none exsistant. With the rod adjusted all the way out(pushing the pedal as far away from the floor board as it will go) I can just barely get enough pressure to push the pedal back up. And I mean just BEARLY! If I don't have it adjusted all the way out the pedal doesn't return at all.

So I've disconnected the hydrolic line from the slave inside the tranny. I've tried gravity bleeding but that just seems to introduce air to the line. If I pump the clutch about ten time it builds up so much pressure I have to push really hard to break the pressure built up in the line. I know the master cylinder is building up pressure, I just don't know if it's building up enough.

With everything hooked up. I can start the car(up in the air) and the put the tranny in any gear with or without the clutch. The higher the gear the longer it takes to push the stick in. I'm guessing that is the synchros doing all the work there. But heres the thing; If I put it in first, press the clutch in and hit the brake it will stall my car out. So the clutch is not releasing.

So then I disconnected the hydrolic line out of the tranny and grabbed the old slave cylinder and hooked it up to that. I bleed it through the old slave and then try to build up pedal pressure. It's still not like it used to be, but I was able to push the pedal back up by c-clamping the old slave down. So what this tells me is that the presure plate is not pushing back on my new slave cylinder.

So thats where I'm at. I can't tell if my Master cylinder is building up enough pressure. I also can't tell if the slave cylinder is making contact with the pressure plate. The only thing I can think that I've done wrong is maybe pulling air into the master. I've bleed the system more time than I care to talk about. I also bleed through the NEW slave cylinder before installing it. I torqued the presure plate just a little over 52 ft/lbs of pressure. I've been told this wouldn't hurt me.

I just don't know what else to test. If I can't get any new ideas in the next couple of hours I guess I'll just have to tow it somewhere and get it fixed. ANY suggestions would be greatly appreciated at this point.

Thanks for your time, I know this is a long read.

Mike B.

theblur98ss

iTrader: (71)

Have you bled it any other way then by gravity? I gravity bled mine and it didn't help much. Had to get under it and do it the hard way.

buschman

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by theblur98ss:
<strong>Have you bled it any other way then by gravity? I gravity bled mine and it didn't help much. Had to get under it and do it the hard way.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I've tried every different way you can think of. I've tried pressure bleeding without the slave cylinder hooked up(where by I open the line when the clutch pedal is being pushed and close it when it hit's the floor board. I've tried hooking up my old slave cylinder and bleeding through that. I've tried bleeding through the new installed slave cylinder while it's in the tranny. I've tried adjusting the rod so it has a very short stroke as well as a very long stroke. I've tried pumping several times to build up pressure. I've tried pressure bleeding a bunch of times to try and get any air out. Just about anyway that has ever been attempted, i've tried it. But still the clutch won't release and I can't get any pedal presure built up.

Mike B.

DERTY

Here's Derty's sure fire way to bleed a master cylinder.

1) Mount the master in a bench vise upside down with the fluid line pointing nearly straight up.
2) String the fluid reservoir straight up
3) Use a piece of 5/8" x 6" long clear PVC tubing and place it over the quick connect. You should be able to get this at a hardware store easily.
4) Use a screwdriver to pump the cylinder up a touch. With a second person use a long screwdriver to open the quick connect. Make sure he/she closes the quick connect before you let out the cylinder. Make sure you leave a little fluid at the bottom of the PVC tube at the quick connect. That will prevent air from back filling the fluid line.
5) Repeat this as need. NOTE That you can only get 2 bleeds out of the reservoir if it's full. Do this until the cylinder is firm and there are no microbubbles. You'll also want to tap the master cylinder to vibrate bubbles to the top.

This is a near bulletproof way to bleed this so that there is no air in the system. You'll also be able to tell if you have a master cylinder going bad like I do by using this method!

buschman

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by derty:
<strong>This is a near bulletproof way to bleed this so that there is no air in the system. You'll also be able to tell if you have a master cylinder going bad like I do by using this method!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What would happen if the master were bad? Cause I can bleed it and get nothing but good fluid, no air, but once I hook it up I get no pressure. So my thought is that the cylinder has enough of a seal to bleed but not enough to build up any pressure. If I remove it to bench bleed(AGAIN <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="gr_images/icons/mad.gif" /> ), how would I know if the M/C were toast? Thanks for the reply, I will try your method tonight.

Mike B.

buschman

I spoke with Jason up at Thunder and he gave a me a few ideas to try tonight. Basically he stressed the importance of a proper bleed and told me how he would do it. So I'll give that a shot tonight and see what goes. But I had a after thought.

When I had my braided hydrolic line out I performed the drill out mod on it. Is it possible that I went too far or somehow screwed up my braided line? I drilled like the directions said, and basically went till I could feel that there was no more metallic resistance. Then I took the line up to the local gas station and the guy up there blew it out with compressed air to get all the shavings out. I would think if I went too far I would have just punctured the braided hose and brake fluid would leak all over the place, which isn't what's happening. Not to mention that I can currently bleed through the braided hose no problem. I'm gonna assume the drill out mod went fine unless you guys tell me otherwise.

I'll yank the M/C and try Jason's way of bench bleeding. If that doesn't work I'll try Derty's way.

Mike

p.s. Thunder Racing seems behind me 100% on this one. Those guys are a class act.

<small>[ September 09, 2002, 02:15 PM: Message edited by: buschman ]</small>

Jason99T/A

iTrader: (21)

Mike, any update on the m/c?

Jason

buschman

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Jason99T/A:
<strong>Mike, any update on the m/c?

Jason</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Didn't get chance to work on it tonight. Problems at work needed my attention. I really wanted to get into it but it'll have to wait till tomorrow night, sorry bro. You'll be the first person I write with the results. Cross your fingers <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

Mike

DERTY

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by buschman:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by derty:
<strong>This is a near bulletproof way to bleed this so that there is no air in the system. You'll also be able to tell if you have a master cylinder going bad like I do by using this method!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What would happen if the master were bad? Cause I can bleed it and get nothing but good fluid, no air, but once I hook it up I get no pressure. So my thought is that the cylinder has enough of a seal to bleed but not enough to build up any pressure. If I remove it to bench bleed(AGAIN <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="gr_images/icons/mad.gif" /> ), how would I know if the M/C were toast? Thanks for the reply, I will try your method tonight.

Mike B.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well I can tell that mine is going bad during bleeding because the damn thing is firm and beautiful one second and with the quick connect closed I can compress the cylinder as if there was air in it (about 1/4" to 1/2"). I know it doesn't have a damn bit of air in it because you can watch the microbubbles come out in the pvc tubing. Otherwise using this method the master should just go solid during the bleeding.

If you've bled your slave a million times by now I would highly recommend that you get the tail of the car up at least 6" higher than the front. There is probably just enough fluid in the bellhousing to eat your clutch up when you take it for a ride. Clutch + Brake Fluid = bad idea.

It's also possible that the seals in the slave are going flaky as well. If it's a new slave then you can pretty much disregard that part. I'm just replacing everything on mine. So damn sick of it.

buschman

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Jason99T/A:
<strong>Mike, any update on the m/c?

Jason</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Jason, Sent you an e-mail.