Retiring Eagles, Vipers and Hogs
10-17-2008, 03:40 PM
#21
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yes the paint on the tail peeled off. sorry i didnt clarify that. i figured most people would know that tail numbers were painted on. i dont see why it would be hard to believe it couldnt come of. seems possible to me. 
guess i could be wrong but thats what i heard from someone that never seemed to tell bs stories.
i dont see how the statement about the stealth is wrong. i went through the f-22 common course. which is an FTD. im sure you know what those are right? well during the class they explained to us what i described perviously with how the stealth works and it makes sense to me. maybe i didnt explain it right. but basicly one 22 flies in front of the other and it is inside of the radar of the other 22 which makes it invisible in other planes and sam site radars. you will only be able to pick up the f22 with the radar on. you can also find out about how this works from the discover channel.
guess i could be wrong but thats what i heard from someone that never seemed to tell bs stories.i dont see how the statement about the stealth is wrong. i went through the f-22 common course. which is an FTD. im sure you know what those are right? well during the class they explained to us what i described perviously with how the stealth works and it makes sense to me. maybe i didnt explain it right. but basicly one 22 flies in front of the other and it is inside of the radar of the other 22 which makes it invisible in other planes and sam site radars. you will only be able to pick up the f22 with the radar on. you can also find out about how this works from the discover channel.
Are you at Macdill AFB? If so I hate you..
10-17-2008, 08:05 PM
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i dont see how the statement about the stealth is wrong. i went through the f-22 common course. which is an FTD. im sure you know what those are right? well during the class they explained to us what i described perviously with how the stealth works and it makes sense to me. maybe i didnt explain it right. but basicly one 22 flies in front of the other and it is inside of the radar of the other 22 which makes it invisible in other planes and sam site radars. you will only be able to pick up the f22 with the radar on. you can also find out about how this works from the discover channel.
10-18-2008, 08:39 AM
#25
We have a few F-22's here in Marietta for flight testing, including one that is in bare panles/primer, and every time they fly it is like an airshow.
Speaking of that, they are doing an airshow this weekend including an F-22 Demonstration, and the Thunderbirds.
I haven't heard of any paint problems with the F-22, but I could see how it could flake at high speeds. Back in the early 70's the F-14 (still in developement) would have large amounts of flaked off paint during east coast-west coast ferry flights during testing for Navair. However it is doubtful, since aviation paints have developed by leaps and bounds since then.
No, not at all. The F-22 does not require a two aircraft flight to maintain a smaller radar signature.
Agreed.
Speaking of that, they are doing an airshow this weekend including an F-22 Demonstration, and the Thunderbirds.
I haven't heard of any paint problems with the F-22, but I could see how it could flake at high speeds. Back in the early 70's the F-14 (still in developement) would have large amounts of flaked off paint during east coast-west coast ferry flights during testing for Navair. However it is doubtful, since aviation paints have developed by leaps and bounds since then.
Originally Posted by whiteLS1
i dont see how the statement about the stealth is wrong. i went through the f-22 common course. which is an FTD. im sure you know what those are right? well during the class they explained to us what i described perviously with how the stealth works and it makes sense to me. maybe i didnt explain it right. but basicly one 22 flies in front of the other and it is inside of the radar of the other 22 which makes it invisible in other planes and sam site radars. you will only be able to pick up the f22 with the radar on. you can also
Originally Posted by Janes
Although several recent Western fighter aircraft are less detectable on radar than previous designs using techniques such as radar absorbent material-coated S-shaped intake ducts that shield the compressor fan from reflecting radar waves, the F-22 design placed a much higher degree of importance on low observance throughout the entire spectrum of sensors including radar signature, visual, infrared, acoustic, and radio frequency.
The stealth of the F-22 is due to a combination of factors, including the overall shape of the aircraft, the use of radar absorbent material (RAM), and attention to detail such as hinges and pilot helmets that could provide a radar return. However, reduced radar cross section is only one of five facets that designers addressed to create a stealth design in the F-22. The F-22 has also been designed to disguise its infrared emissions to make it harder to detect by infrared homing ("heat seeking") surface-to-air or air-to-air missiles. Designers also made the aircraft less visible to the naked eye, and controlled radio and noise emissions. The Raptor has an under bay carrier made for hiding heat from missile threats, like surface-to-air missiles.
The F-22 apparently relies less on maintenance-intensive radar absorbent material and coatings than previous stealth designs like the F-117. These materials caused deployment problems due to their susceptibility to adverse weather conditions. Unlike the B-2, which requires climate-controlled hangars, the F-22 can undergo repairs on the flight line or in a normal hangar. Furthermore, the F-22 has a warning system (called "Signature Assessment System" or "SAS") which presents warning indicators when routine wear-and-tear have degraded the aircraft's radar signature to the point of requiring more substantial repairs. The exact radar cross section of the F-22 remains classified.
The stealth of the F-22 is due to a combination of factors, including the overall shape of the aircraft, the use of radar absorbent material (RAM), and attention to detail such as hinges and pilot helmets that could provide a radar return. However, reduced radar cross section is only one of five facets that designers addressed to create a stealth design in the F-22. The F-22 has also been designed to disguise its infrared emissions to make it harder to detect by infrared homing ("heat seeking") surface-to-air or air-to-air missiles. Designers also made the aircraft less visible to the naked eye, and controlled radio and noise emissions. The Raptor has an under bay carrier made for hiding heat from missile threats, like surface-to-air missiles.
The F-22 apparently relies less on maintenance-intensive radar absorbent material and coatings than previous stealth designs like the F-117. These materials caused deployment problems due to their susceptibility to adverse weather conditions. Unlike the B-2, which requires climate-controlled hangars, the F-22 can undergo repairs on the flight line or in a normal hangar. Furthermore, the F-22 has a warning system (called "Signature Assessment System" or "SAS") which presents warning indicators when routine wear-and-tear have degraded the aircraft's radar signature to the point of requiring more substantial repairs. The exact radar cross section of the F-22 remains classified.
10-18-2008, 11:14 AM
#26
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Anyone that claims the F22 needs a 2-ship to make the stealth work doesn't understand stealth. Radar already doesn't pick up F22s, whether there are 10 of them or just one.
Also, as mentioned before, the F22 flies slower than the SR71 and X15 (significantly slower I might add), and both of those came back with paint still on them.
Also, as mentioned before, the F22 flies slower than the SR71 and X15 (significantly slower I might add), and both of those came back with paint still on them.
10-18-2008, 11:57 AM
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its not that the radar doesnt pick up the f22 because it does, the point is it resembles something like a bird its too small to distinguish from say a goose or a bringer of death.
10-18-2008, 12:16 PM
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dude i worked on 16's for 4 and 1/2 years and never heard a pilot call them vipers. there use to be a squadron in vegas called viper but they changed the name.
i think its good there cutting back on the f-15 and f-16. they need to build more f-22's it is far superior to both of them.
the f-22 is amazing, when two are flying together one can fly infront of the other and radar will make it invisible. thus makes other planes only pick up one jet when there is really two or other countries sam sites only see one jet when there is really two.
i have also heard stories that during high speed testing the tail numbers have gone missing.
f-22 equals major badass
i think its good there cutting back on the f-15 and f-16. they need to build more f-22's it is far superior to both of them.
the f-22 is amazing, when two are flying together one can fly infront of the other and radar will make it invisible. thus makes other planes only pick up one jet when there is really two or other countries sam sites only see one jet when there is really two.
i have also heard stories that during high speed testing the tail numbers have gone missing.
f-22 equals major badassNellis here in Vegas still has Viper. I was just there yesterday to get some vvl-800. LOL, I work raptor coming from the F-117.
10-18-2008, 02:37 PM
#30
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What your thinking of is the need of an AWACS to relay radar information to them in a BVR fight, because even my 59.99$ radar detector would know if it was being painted by an f-22. For just a little more money you can buy radar detectors that shoot back.
A single F-22 can also act as an AWACS, and relay radar info to an entire flight of f-22's. But once its on he is no longer "stealthy".
BTW, the 1970's f-117 was the last "stealth" fighter that relied on just absorbing/reflecting radar at angles, and looking like a small bird on the scope. As the Serb's proved in 1999, you can shoot down a 500mph humming bird just as easily as you can an f-15.
A single F-22 can also act as an AWACS, and relay radar info to an entire flight of f-22's. But once its on he is no longer "stealthy".
BTW, the 1970's f-117 was the last "stealth" fighter that relied on just absorbing/reflecting radar at angles, and looking like a small bird on the scope. As the Serb's proved in 1999, you can shoot down a 500mph humming bird just as easily as you can an f-15.
Last edited by Phoenix64; 10-18-2008 at 03:00 PM.
10-18-2008, 03:44 PM
#31
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I NEVER SAID THEY NEED TWO PLANES to be stealth.i said that when two are flying together one is able to be COMPLETELY UNNOTICED!!!! also the f-22 is picked up by radar!!!! its just not picked up the same as say an f15. its more like a bird or something small as someone else said. i think you guys may be confused with how i am explaining myself or you just dont know how to read. one of the two.
THE F-22 IS NOT INVISIBLE TO RADAR!!! IF YOU BELIEVE THAT YOUR A TURD.
if you have never worked on or around the f-22 you may not know what your talking about and have only heard stuff through the grape vine. hence why you dont understand what i am saying.
THE F-22 IS NOT INVISIBLE TO RADAR!!! IF YOU BELIEVE THAT YOUR A TURD.
if you have never worked on or around the f-22 you may not know what your talking about and have only heard stuff through the grape vine. hence why you dont understand what i am saying.
10-18-2008, 03:49 PM
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Anyone that claims the F22 needs a 2-ship to make the stealth work doesn't understand stealth. Radar already doesn't pick up F22s, whether there are 10 of them or just one.
Also, as mentioned before, the F22 flies slower than the SR71 and X15 (significantly slower I might add), and both of those came back with paint still on them.
Also, as mentioned before, the F22 flies slower than the SR71 and X15 (significantly slower I might add), and both of those came back with paint still on them.
RADAR will pick up the f-22 but not like other planes.
10-18-2008, 03:53 PM
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[QUOTE=
No, not at all. The F-22 does not require a two aircraft flight to maintain a smaller radar signature.
Agreed.[/QUOTE]
you are correct. it does not require it. but one will become completely unseen(not even a blurp NOTHING AT ALL) if they fly together. im not sure how to explain it you everyone on here by writing it. ill do some research for you guys so they i can make myself clear.
No, not at all. The F-22 does not require a two aircraft flight to maintain a smaller radar signature.
Agreed.[/QUOTE]
you are correct. it does not require it. but one will become completely unseen(not even a blurp NOTHING AT ALL) if they fly together. im not sure how to explain it you everyone on here by writing it. ill do some research for you guys so they i can make myself clear.
10-18-2008, 03:55 PM
#34
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hey you know what.. now that i think about it you are right. its the viper aggressor squadron that has all of the painted jets(not the grey paint jets smart ***' on here)
10-18-2008, 04:05 PM
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F-22 is slower than an F-15 just so ya know, and I'm 100% sure a SR-71 will wax a 15.
F-22 picked up on radar like a bird? Holy HELL, I hope my radar at work doesn't start picking up birds!!! My radar screen will be fk'd! I'll be giving birds traffic calls on other birds! Oh, in case you didn't pick what I'm sayin up... A BIRD is not picked up by radar, hence the Raptor having a RCS(radar cross section) that of a small bird = invisible to radar. I have a little bit of a clue. If the 22 doesn't have his transponder on I don't get a primary or secondary target.
F-22 picked up on radar like a bird? Holy HELL, I hope my radar at work doesn't start picking up birds!!! My radar screen will be fk'd! I'll be giving birds traffic calls on other birds! Oh, in case you didn't pick what I'm sayin up... A BIRD is not picked up by radar, hence the Raptor having a RCS(radar cross section) that of a small bird = invisible to radar. I have a little bit of a clue. If the 22 doesn't have his transponder on I don't get a primary or secondary target.
10-18-2008, 05:40 PM
#36
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Dude don't even bring up the Blackbird in this discussion. All I can say is if you have a high enough clearance and NTK you would know that plane was UNGODLY fast compared to anything else out there then and even today.
10-18-2008, 08:23 PM
#37
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F-22 is slower than an F-15 just so ya know, and I'm 100% sure a SR-71 will wax a 15.
F-22 picked up on radar like a bird? Holy HELL, I hope my radar at work doesn't start picking up birds!!! My radar screen will be fk'd! I'll be giving birds traffic calls on other birds! Oh, in case you didn't pick what I'm sayin up... A BIRD is not picked up by radar, hence the Raptor having a RCS(radar cross section) that of a small bird = invisible to radar. I have a little bit of a clue. If the 22 doesn't have his transponder on I don't get a primary or secondary target.
F-22 picked up on radar like a bird? Holy HELL, I hope my radar at work doesn't start picking up birds!!! My radar screen will be fk'd! I'll be giving birds traffic calls on other birds! Oh, in case you didn't pick what I'm sayin up... A BIRD is not picked up by radar, hence the Raptor having a RCS(radar cross section) that of a small bird = invisible to radar. I have a little bit of a clue. If the 22 doesn't have his transponder on I don't get a primary or secondary target.
f-15-Thrust: (C/D models) 23,450 pounds each engine
-Weight empty: 31,700 lb
f-22- 35,000-pound-thrust class Pratt & Whitney F119-PW-100 each engine
-Weight Empty: 31,670 lb
this shows that your WRONG
do your research before you talk ****. i could give you an example a stock 93 fox body coupe mustang vs. a stock 08 zo6. its simple math more power wins.
its ok you can say sorry now. oh and about the bird thing i said the size of a bird. THE DAMN PLANE IS NOT INVISIBLE FOLKS. i understand about how the paint works i understand that it is an amazing plane i already said that. i also understand how radar works.
10-18-2008, 08:41 PM
#38
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the sr71 is heavier and doesnt seem to have as much thrust so that goes back to the power to weight ratio again. idk maybe im wrong maybe i am an idiot. but you know what i did some research and i dont believe im wrong.
10-18-2008, 09:50 PM
#39
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oh really so the f-22 is slower then the f-15
f-15-Thrust: (C/D models) 23,450 pounds each engine
-Weight empty: 31,700 lb
f-22- 35,000-pound-thrust class Pratt & Whitney F119-PW-100 each engine
-Weight Empty: 31,670 lb
this shows that your WRONG do your research before you talk ****.
i could give you an example a stock 93 fox body coupe mustang vs. a stock 08 zo6. its simple math more power wins. its ok you can say sorry now.
oh and about the bird thing i said the size of a bird. THE DAMN PLANE IS NOT INVISIBLE FOLKS. i understand about how the paint works i understand that it is an amazing plane i already said that. i also understand how radar works.
f-15-Thrust: (C/D models) 23,450 pounds each engine
-Weight empty: 31,700 lb
f-22- 35,000-pound-thrust class Pratt & Whitney F119-PW-100 each engine
-Weight Empty: 31,670 lb
this shows that your WRONG
do your research before you talk ****. i could give you an example a stock 93 fox body coupe mustang vs. a stock 08 zo6. its simple math more power wins.
its ok you can say sorry now. oh and about the bird thing i said the size of a bird. THE DAMN PLANE IS NOT INVISIBLE FOLKS. i understand about how the paint works i understand that it is an amazing plane i already said that. i also understand how radar works.
C-5 engines are rated at 45000 pounds of thrust and its got 4 of them, so by your logic a C5 is faster then a F22?
10-18-2008, 10:34 PM
#40
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atleast im comparing a plane to a plane and a car to a car. i guess i should have compared a car to a big wheels. your comparision is retarded. keep drinking bud
