1gen

iTrader: (1)

Ok so I was enlisted and that **** seems like it blows *** compared to being an officer, I've seen officers in starbucks (like 5 captains) at like 1030 in the morning on a tuesday. I plan on joining the USMC, when my kid starts school after getting my degree as a nurse anesthetist, as an officer in a combat arms MOS and was wondering if anyone has gone through marine corps OCS or are an officer in the usmc and wondering what you guys put up with on a day to day. It seems different than being enlisted, can anyone shed some light on this?

SgtB

iTrader: (3)

bro it's a LOT more politics than any NCO or SNCO....
don't join the darkside

Packy

iTrader: (11)

You are assuming that you will get in the combat arms MOS... No one has told you about quality spread I take it! The USMC has a what they call a quality spread in OCS actually it is The Basic School where they do it at. What they do is take the class and split it up into 3 groups by your overall grade percentage. Just for example 90% and above, 84% to 89%, and 80%-84%. Each man puts together a wishlist for which MOS he would like with 3 choices. Then they take the first one third and give the top guys out of that group their first choice. Then they just fit everyone else in according to their 2 and 3rd picks with the guys in the tail end of that group getting assigned to basically whatever they want or tell them to do. Then they do the same thing with the second group and the third group. So you can place in the top one third of class at OCS/TBS and still get fucked. Then you will see shitbags that skated by the seat of their pants get what they are asking for their number 1-2 picks because they are in the top percentage of that second or third group. Plus like it was stated before officers are too political! If you do not play the game the way that the higher ups want you too then you will be forced out. Also you have to do certain command and staff positions to get advanced. So even if you do become an infantry officer you will spend time out of your job in other billets to fulfill some of those positions otherwise you can be forced out for that. Bottom line is you really need to talk to a few Marine officers first. Make sure that they have been around for awhile too. The boot ones tend to have a one tracked mind and think that there isn't anything better than being a Marine officer. Good luck!

ShisHKbob

iTrader: (4)

What he said but it would behoove you to find a seasoned "Mustang" officer to really give you some pros/cons about whichside would benefit YOUR goals.

mustang = enlisted who went to OCS and became officer. Of every officer I've ever had, the 3 Mustangs I had the pleasure of serving under were by far the best!

nytmare1

iTrader: (7)

Help me understand your position... you saw a couple 0's sitting in Starbucks on a Tuesday morning and now you want to be one? I suspect (hope) there's more to it than that, but thought I should ask first.



Are officer and enlisted personnel different? Hell, yes they are! Are they paid different? Hell, yeas they are! Are they treated different? Hell... you get the point.

As was suggested, find a couple USMC Majs and LtCols and ask them their honest impressions. In general, don't talk a whole lot with Capts or below 'cause they haven't been around long enough to really give an objective opinion. I'm not slamming Capts or below, but many of them are still only responsible for themselves and don't have families yet. You have a family and have to take their welfare into consideration.

Make sure you look into the future as well. For example; Health care when I enlisted back in '79 was "FREE" for the rest of your life. Now we have to pay for it. Granted, it's comparitively inexpensive, but far from "FREE" as promised (and DoD is trying to raise the cost again).

Also, think about your pay. Another example; Enlisted personnel (not eating at the base chowhall) get extra money in the paycheck to cover food for themselves and their family. This isn't considered part of their base pay, but is considered a "benefit". Officers get this cost in their base pay (salary). What does this mean down the road? Well, that means the additional money the officers are getting for food (which adds up over time) is taken into consideration when they hit retirement age and start drawing social security checks. Enlisted personnel don't get consideration for this as it was provided to them as a "benefit" and not part of their base pay (salary).

How about treatment? If you screw up as an officer... not as many people find out 'cause they don't like to air their dirty laundry (bad for publicity). If your enlisted and screw up... everybody and their brother finds out. I know a Major who has been charged and convicted of attempted rape (later pleaded down and suspended... imagine that) and is currently being investigated for abduction (not related to the first conviction) of a 16 yr old girl (of which he will be found guilty of that too). A couple months ago, the Marine Corps determined it was in its best interest to "allow" him to retire (as a Capt... big deal) to save itself from the bad publicity. Now, had those same offenses been comitted by a relatively senior enlisted person... the Marine Corps would have sacrificed him to the media, put him in the brig (prison), reduced him to a Pvt, given him a Dishonorable Discharge and make him forefit any and all future benefits of having been a veteran. I'm not saying that's not just treatment. I'm saying that they should be consistent with their treatment and judgement.

I was once (early in my enlistment) given the opportunity to go to OCS and become an officer. I thought about the people I had met during my short period in the Corps and who I had the most respect for. I stayed enlisted and never regretted it.

So... it comes down to you, your impressions and your responsibilities. Weigh what you learn and make an informed decision.

Best of luck,
Marc
GySgt
USMC (ret.)

97blkz

iTrader: (1)

By the way guys there is politics in every fortune 500 co in America. I now work for one. I would not suggest someone avoid Management due to the nature of the political issues. This is just my view, so please no name calling arguments but I'm open for debate.

1gen

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the advice Gunny, all of the males in my family have served at least 4 years in the marine corps except me, I went to the army as a special forces recruit only to be medically discharged 3 days before graduation on a misdiagnosis and they told me I could be back in the army in a week but if I went back in I'd have to go through training again and I dont want to do that again. I think I'd make a great officer because I've seen that enlisted side and I know the aspect of a commander that comes straight into the military to OCS and ***** everyone under him because he doesnt know what the **** he's talking about and doesnt have enough sense to listen to the SNCOs' advice. While my time wasnt as long as yours by decades I feel that I have seen that side enough to be a good commander. I want to be an officer in the reserves, I have a kid on the way and want to be home with him, I dont want my family to have to move around a lot (ie. stability). It wasnt just I saw a couple of officers in starbucks and wanted to be one. I want to go to iraq and all that too, knowing that I'd be doing some good and also I'd be earning college money for my kid.

nytmare1

iTrader: (7)

It sounds like you have a plan that's based on some experience (yours and family). It also sounds as though you're walking into this with your eyes open. Just remember your responsibilities to the mission and your Marines.

Good luck,
Marc

StoleIt

iTrader: (3)

Well USMC doesn't have a Medical Corps, I believe they use Navy personel for that. So are you planning on doing something medical in the Marines or just looking into being an officer in general?

I have a bunch of friends, all prior Marine enlisted that are going through NROTC to be officers. They always speak proudly of their experiences as NCO's, but mainly they wanted to switch into a pilot MOS so that was their reason for going officer.

1gen

iTrader: (1)

no I wanna be an officer in a combat MOS so that I can try to change the way a lot of these dumb **** officers are running **** even if its just my company that's being run correctly, at least thats one more on track

Gold Z

iTrader: (3)

I guess i'm the only Marine Corps officer here, and a mustanger to boot. I thought it would be cool to have people saluting me and while my uniform stayed dirty I never saw an officer with a dirty uniform. Also back then the officers had cars and anyone below E5 did not. So I worked my butt off and got picked up under the outstanding NCO program for OCS. OCS was a breeze compared to Marine boot camp. Then six months of "the basic school" which was very intense. Officers have to buy their uniforms. A complete set with coats and accessories was almost two thousand dollars back in the 70's. My eyes kept me out of flight school so I choose motor transport as my first choice of MOS and got it. I figured I would rather ride than walk...ended up running resupply convoys along the DMZ in Viet Nam. Then went to 4/12, a M109 self propelled 155mm howitzer battalion. Then I volunteered and was selected for recon where I spent my last two years. Would I go to OCS again if I had it to do over again? I'm not sure. As an enlisted Marine it was pretty simple, you were given a job to do and you did it. Not alot of thinking involved. LOTS of HARD WORK but it always had a beginning point and an ending point. As an officer everything was different. You had to plan everything. If there was a problem you were totally responsible and you would find yourself in some colonel's office explaining what happened and assuring him it would never happen again. You wrote 5 paragraph field orders in your sleep. You worked 16 hour days. They were always short of officers so you had many different titles and the jobs that went with them. Saluting was a pain in the ***! You had to salute officers senior to yourself and had to return the salutes of every enlisted Marine. This means you had to salute every person who came near you who wasn't the same rank! You never ate until your men had eaten or were assured that a sufficient quantity of food to serve everybody was present. Your men ALWAYS came first in everything. There were times in Nam during the monsoon when I had to sleep in an open jeep because all enclosed areas were occupied by my men. I went hungry a few times when there wasn't enough c-rations to go around. I remember once getting severly chewed out by my battalion commander because one of my men fell asleep at the wheel and was killed when returning from a four day holliday. It was my fault he got killed because I obviously had not stressed hard enough during my safe driving lecture not to drive when tired or sleepy. The Corps relies on it's officers to train their troops. Instead of sending all your men to a school, they send you and you then have to train your men in whatever it was you had learned. You spend lots of time putting lesson plans together and conducting classes. The training was rigerous and continuous. You were in the field with your men during training but when their day was done you were doing all the planning and preperations for the next day. The hardest thing to learn was that you couldn't be their buddy and their leader. It was also hard, in my mid 20's, to be a father figure to company of men only slightly younger than I was. I'm glad they respected me enough to come to me with their serious problems. I dreaded the times I had to deliver death messages. In spite of my whinning, I loved the Corps. I feel just as much a Marine today as when I was on active duty. My dress sword is hanging on my living room wall. The hand painted paddle they gave me when I left Recon is in my computer room. I guess I would do the same thing again. The satisfaction you get from watching your men in action you can't get anywhere else. I say go for it. Semper Fi!

Packy

iTrader: (11)

Arrugha! From a fellow Force Recon Marine.

1gen

iTrader: (1)

thanks for all the advice Gold Z, I didnt know you were an officer in the Corps cuz I would have been talking to you about this sooner, I met you one night at hooters in Hulen before and we went out racing that night, I think I still had the red 92 RS at that time, you had your wife with you and we were racing in some unfinished neighborhood...

Gold Z

iTrader: (3)

Yea, that was an almost fun night......my nitrous controller went out on me and I got my *** handed to me by that turboed Mustang, got deep grooves in my Nittos from the shitty concrete road surface, and then the cops showed up and everyone scattered. My home phone is 940-692-4891. Call me if you want to discuss your choices.

Richiec77

iTrader: (3)

This is a good discusion here. nytmare1 The way you were giving advice I thought you were an Officer at 1st. God you have your **** together Gunny.

I will say this: You may want to be an officer to try and change the world. Many have switched or gone the officer route for that purpose alone. It may not happen. The officer world can grind down many a good man and force their hand to do what they leaders above want.

Now. I'll say that the best thing you can do to help with changing the way business is ran is to TRUST your NCO's. As a Mustang, you have the hindsight and know-all about that side of the military. In the corp or the army, your Platoon SGT is the man of the hour. This is where you can help with the change and to make it happen. BUT, once you leave the command slot's, the daily grind is madening.

Working up here in a DIV main, it's nuts to see CPT's and MAJ running around like E-4's and E-5's. This would be the world were you would be dragged down and beaten up with the daily grind. They reduce you to just another person to get something done. No awesome resposibilities of being in charge of troops.

I'd say o for it even thought there are roadblocks that won't change. Another guy trying to re-shape this big green giant won't hurt and can only help. Just be sure to not change too much.

Gold Z

iTrader: (3)

Officers may hold the titles but the Gunny's run the Corps........

nytmare1

iTrader: (7)

LOL... Ooorah!

ls1marine

iTrader: (2)

yuuuuuuuuuuuutttttttttttt

97blkz

iTrader: (1)

The one thing I love about the corp is the tradition and pride that 99% of Marines live for. I met a USMC sniper about a week ago playing arisoft and it was like we knew each other for year after 2 hours of talking, it was nice to have him on my team also, lol!

CamTom12

iTrader: (1)

If your only enlisted time was in training (18x is essentially highschool to SF), I think you might have a little biased view of the two worlds. Enlisted life is pretty chill once the job is done. But there's a lot that goes on in the Officer world that Enlisted personnel don't have visual on... Gold Z just about nailed all of it (no matter what you are, O or E, always listen to the right experience.). Officers do get paid more. Officers do have a bit better in the benefits package than Enlisted persons do. Officers don't have dirty and menial tasks like Enlisted does. HOWEVER, Officers do spend much more time at work (mine never ends. From when I wake up until I fall asleep my men are constantly on my mind). Officers do eat a lot of the **** that would roll downhill to the Enlisted personnel. Any time you hear two Joe's walking off saying 'man, this is BS.' I can almost guarantee that their unit commander was in his commander's office doing what he could to divert the issue. I manage to block about 70-80% of the **** that higher plans and replace it with things that make more sense and work more smoothly. However it's that 20-30% that I can't stop that I get to deal with as a 'crisis control' officer. I had a Warrant that sat outside during one of these command meetings hear all that went on... He pulled me aside later and said, 'Sir, now I know why you get paid more'

All that being said, if you're a good officer nothing else (not the pay or anything) makes it more worthwhile than one of your guys saying, 'Thanks, Sir. We appreciate it'