DomestC

omg LOL in the second video at the very end you can hear her say "yeah, ****** smoked him that time!" damn ricers

GMmexican

iTrader: (7)

its still an engine swapped car, and runs what mid to low 12's?

25psi

Show me one Supra that makes 800-1000rwhp that runs 12's? Just one!

Your comprehension level is 0. If you took time to read and analyze what has been written, you would completely understand why torque as a number is meaningless.

Let me ask you this:

Two identical cars, lets say a dodge viper. One makes 600rwhp and 900ftlb and the other makes 900rwhp and 600ftlb of torque. Who would you put your money on? Or how about a, 800rwhp 650ftlb supra vs a 650rwhp 800ftlb ls1?

fastest94v6

iTrader: (10)

"Hosepower sells cars, Torque wins races." take it to the track and leave it there, end of discussion.

JD_AMG

Who said anything about WRHP? Learn to read kiddo!

http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?t=29073
Couple on here:
12.716 @ 116 mph Michel L 60 ft 2.287 (T78 + 720cc + AEM) (York dragstrip)
T78s have been known to make between 6-700 rwhp, but this guy gets a 12.7

12.89 @ 123 mph Secondjump 60ft 2.88 (Bl T61)(auto) JAP (Totb4)
T61 are known to make 500hp, this guy manages a 12.89

I guess you havent seen these shirts before either?
http://www.cafepress.com/mountainboost.28098827

The stupid punk kids put the biggest turbo they can find on their car, and dont bother tuning it, so they can just brag "ZOMG I MADE SOME MAD HP DAWG LOL BBQ"

Your reading level is 0, how many times now have I said PEAK NUMBERS ARE MEAINGLESS, DO NOT USE PEAK NUMBERS AGAIN. Did you get that? Do I need to bold it for you?
So please, answer my simple question about the dyno charts I posted.

koolkoreanked

Obviously engine A with the flat tq curve will win... But you dont see tq curves like that unless the motor is turbo. In my car I make max tq at 5200 rpms... my tq is actually pretty flat from 2k on to 5200... I'll try to get the sheet up here if need. Altho my car pulls pretty hard before 5200 its not until the hp catches up to the tq and then goes beyond the tq curve. My car doesn't pull hardest until the hp levels off at about 220 whp from 6k to 8k. Not were tq is even from 2k to about 5k at 210 wtq. In fact my tq falls flat on its face after 5k but the car just pulls harder and harder due to rpms.

01black

iTrader: (4)

killer lil hatch....love to own one K20, B20, B18C1,5.....

brad8266

iTrader: (23)

benchracing is for tards.

Abidar

Along the same lines, "Horsepower wins brags, torque wins drags."

Horsepower is a theoretical number created from torque numbers. This thread got waaaaay off topic in a hurry.

Regardless, nice races.

Prey4Me

iTrader: (2)

That is one of the dumbest things I've ever seen posted! How is that a torque comparision? first with 300 more rwhp, then with 150 more rwhp. I am no car wizard, but I can make this simple for you, PAY ATTENTION! Using your choice of a viper.... one with 500hp and 500tq vs one with 500hp and 250tq, so using your logic the second viper should be every bit as fast as the first? Yes, you can overcome a lower torque number with a higher hp number, but in no way is torque a meaningless number. yes a supra with 800hp and 650tq will beat a ls1 with 650hp and 800tq, but that is no comparision! take the same cars but the ls1 has 800hp and 750tq, and you still think the supra will win? For someone who throws up these math equations to explain things, you're suprisingly stupid .

Prey4Me

iTrader: (2)

Oh yeah, almost forgot, good races and quick little hatch.

JD_AMG

Thats an over exaggerated curve to simply prove a point. BUT N/A engines can certainly have a near flat curve:
Check out the stock line, pretty flat.
http://www.roeracing.com/images/dyno_srt10.gif
Same here:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y20...osite_Page.jpg
http://www.dragtimes.com/images_dyno...amaro-Dyno.jpg
http://www.madz28.com/cars/thannum.gif
Let me guess, you have a turbo car? Thats turbo lag that making it *seem* like its pulling harder up top, but its really pulling its hardest where its making the most torque.
Take an N/A engine, better to find one like in a truck, where its making most of the torque down low, and very little up high. In a single gear (lets say 2nd) take it to the RPM where the most torque is, and smash the throttle. Now take it to the RPM where the most hp is, and smash the throttle. You will notice the car/truck jolts forward much harder where the torque is, and very little where the torque is low. DO NOT bother doing this with your turbocharged car, the turbolag will mess with the results.

bdr_ws6

My F150 does that. Pulls MUCH harder down low in the rev range than up high.

GMmexican

iTrader: (7)

25 psi

25psi

Look dumbass. Your the one that said 8-1000hp supras run 12's. Those turbos you depict, clearly DO NOT SHOW IT! Any reasonable minded person on thia forums, can decipher the trap speeds in those times do not illustrate a 800rwhp+ supra. Come on limp dick, 116 traps is more like 400-450rwhp and 123mph is more like 500rwhp. Far from 800-1000rwhp!

It truely amazes me how ignorant you are. Nothing you have said makes any sense to me. I've counteracted everything you proposed and broke it down to the simplest of terms, but you still fail to see what I am saying.

Quote from #25 (never said torque wasnt important)

The point I'm trying to advocate is that there is no reason to look at the torque. If you want an engine that produces 1000hp a@ 8,500rpm you will need 617ft/lbs of torque. The misunderstanding is that you are thinking that I'm saying you will never need torque at all. This is not the point I was trying to make. I was trying to say that you can throw out your torque numbers, they are unimportant. Now for the car to make X amount of horsepower it will need Y amount of torque at Z rpm. So you will need torque to make horsepower. However the torque, as a number, is useless to brag about. It is useless to say "Oh yeah, well my car makes 400ft/lbs of torque. Now if that same person was to say "My car makes 400ft/lbs of torque at 8000rpm" its a different story. But thats only because that means he's making 609RWHP. Which is definitely a force to be reckoned with. So in the end I think we were arguing totally different points (atleast I hope I've caught the problem here). I'm saying Torque as a number means nothing but rather that horsepower is what you should pay attention to because that is what makes your car go down the track. You're saying that torque is necessary for an engine to make good horsepower. So in the end we're both correct. Obviously the better your torque, the better your horsepower. But high torque is nothing without a good amount of RPMs. I'm just tired of V8's throwing their torque numbers around when it doesnt prove anything.

25psi

PLEASE REREAD! PLEASE REREAD! PLEASE REREAD! PLEASE REREAD! PLEASE REREAD! PLEASE REREAD! PLEASE REREAD! PLEASE REREAD!


Take an extreme example to illustrate why the torque number is meaningless. Compare in the same car with two different engines, an engine that puts out 50 ft lbs of torque and an engine that puts out 500 ft lbs. Say we are going to race the cars for a given distance with a 1 speed transmission. Which engine will be faster?

Hmmm, can't say right?

Lets say the 50 ft lb engine puts out it's 50 ft lbs to 10000 RPM, and the 500 ft lb engine puts out it's 500 ft lbs to 1000 RPM. Now we are getting somewhere, because before, with out knowing the speeds at which the engines produce those numbers, we don't know how much power they can produce, which tells what gearing they can support in the race to distance without hitting redline.

Now, for the 50 ft lb engine we put in 20:1 rear gears and when we run it on our racetrack we just get to 10,000 RPM right at the finish line. Everything looks good; the gears maximize the potential of the car as it sits for this combination.

Now we put in our 500 ft lb engine, and leave the gears the same. Now the engine redlines about a tenth of the way down the track, the 20:1 rear is no good. We look at the first combination and we know to go the same speed with 1/10 the redline we need 1/10 the gears, right? So replace the 20:1 rear with a 2:1 rear. Now the car will run the same, because both cars have the same HP (RPM x T)/2525 in both cases. They also have the same torque at the rear wheels (50 x 20= 500 x 2). So what number told the tale, the torque numbers, which varied by a factor of 10, or the HP number, which is the same?

In order to not have to calculate rear wheel torque every time you want to compare two cars, or even the same car, you can just look at the calculated HP number. The HP number tells the whole story.

25psi

Who cares how power is achieved! Different cars have different power curves. It doesnt mean that one is better than the other.

Since you seem to mock a supras torque curve, but what has taken as ls1 so long to run 6.4's at 220mph? Despite having twice the liters and a two more cylinders, one would think a supra with such a peak torque curve would have a hard time running those number eh!

25psi

Your a dumbass! All you do is use smiley faces to address your thoughts. You have no sensibility whatsoever! You prove me wrong then! Say something for a change, instead of agreeing with someone elses arguements. Your a losers who juggles other peoples nuts to make yourself seem more intelligent than you actually are. So free up those jaws and say something.

koolkoreanked

actually my car is n/a. The car pulls hardest when I mash the pedal at 6 grand or higher when the hp is highest and flatest. When I do a low rpm roll where tq is highest I usually get pulled on by about a fender if I'm racing a bolt-on ls1. Its not until 6k where I actually pull that fender back and pass whatever it is I'm racing. What you fail to understand or didn't mention is that there is too ways to make power... High tq low rpm motors... Or low tq high rpm motors like mine. Tho I make all my tq down low its not until the motor is spinning do I actually start pulling hard.

JD_AMG

You seem to still not understand.
For starters, here same setups as above:
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/a...0b0105702f.htm
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/3...5e0123c68d.htm
These cars are making that power with the same setup.

Ok now listen this is the last time Ill go over this with you. Judging by that joke powercurve t-shirt link I gave you, can you not see how car like that would show those times? With such a peaky curve your only making power for a fraction of a second, then you have to switch gears and wait for the spool again. I told you these cars are not tuned properly, there the dumb kids who buy the biggest turbo, and do nothing else, so they can brag about making 1000hp.
Right... and thats why your still avoiding my question?
And the point im advocating is you shouldnt always judge by peak hp, it doesnt always tell the whole story (my dyno example, and the badly tuned Supras).
And that still doesnt say much, because you dont know what that torque curve looks like, you can assume its generally flat, but it may not be, like my dyno chart example shows, peak numbers can show very little.
Your still fixated on peak numbers, thats the problem here.