Flyer

iTrader: (1)

I've been debating about this for a while now. I guess about 2 weeks now I've been trying to decide if I really want to do this. Here it goes.

I'm going to post up an ongoing email I've had with Allen about getting me a tune. Let's keep i mind this is after a month and a half of going back and forth with small talk and getting no where.

I mentioned something to Allen about Speartech may being able to help out.

What follows will be the complete email, one reply per post.

Flyer

iTrader: (1)

From: flyer@*.com [mailto:flyer@*.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 11:28 PM
To: allen@*.com
Subject: Starting to give up on you



Allen, It's been more than a month since I first came to you with the programming problem. I have to say, I'm more than a little disappointed in the service I've gotten. Just to recap, I've yet to get an actual tune from you. I originally met you in SA to get tuned, but due to the mechanical problems, it just wasn't happening. I know we did spend some time working on it and trying to get it all sorted out, but it just wasn't happening. I did get a PCM from you with a new tune, but was unable to use it so it was promptly sent back to you. After that I had been promised several flash files from you for a performance tune for which I had provided more than enough log files. I never got any of them. The only thing I have ever received was for idle quality, even those I had to go through and at least raise my rev limiters and WOT shift points. I feel that I have hardly gotten my money's worth for what the services I paid for. I hope you understand my concern and that we can come to a resolution. Thank you for your time.



Nathan

Flyer

iTrader: (1)

From: Allen Nelson-LS1Truck

To: flyer@*.com

Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 11:34 PM

Subject: RE: Starting to give up on you



Hi Nathan,



I’m almost giving up trying to find your seg id, and have Speartech send me a file. I must have flashed about 10 pcms and read them and no luck. He does it the same way as I do, he said he just go lucky with that seg id.

If I can’t get the seg id tomorrow, I’ll just buy the file from Speartech. He said he got one the other day.



What I do is, flash a pcm with an 03 HD and hope it has a seg id like yours, if not it’s on to the next vin.



I’ll let you know something tomorrow.



Btw, the dyno should be up tomorrow, I’m going to play with it for the rest of the week then it’s open to the public, would you be interested in coming down, I’ll treat you right on the price,





Thanks,



allen



Nelson Performance

Dyno Tuning

99-04 GM Trucks/SUV

LS1Truck

Your Community for late-model

GM Trucks and LS1 Conversions



Please reply with all previous correspondence

Flyer

iTrader: (1)

From: flyer@*.com

To: allen@*.com

Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 12:34 AM

Subject: Re: Starting to give up on you



That sounds fine about the file ... I don't really care what happens, I'm just ready to get this part behind me. I think we can both say that it's going on for some time now. I'm sure you are just as ready as I am to get this part over and done with. I don't mind getting the file from Speartech if that's what I need to do to get it done. It's worth 40 bucks to me to have the file if that's what I need to do.



The dyno runs do sound tempting. I was thinking maybe I could make it down again, and get a before and after run on the tuning that I still haven't gotten at no extra charge. Let me know what you think.



Nathan

Flyer

iTrader: (1)

This is 2 different responses from me trying to get an answer since Speartech was waiting on me

From: flyer@*.com [mailto:flyer@*.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 10:39 PM
To: allen@*.com; allen@*.com
Subject: Fw: Starting to give up on you
Importance: High



Allen ... I'm still waiting for a response.



Nathan

----- Original Message -----

From: flyer@*.com

To: allen@*.com

Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 1:45 PM

Subject: Fw: Starting to give up on you



Allen, let me know something please. Speartech is waiting on an answer from me.



Nathan

Flyer

iTrader: (1)

From: Allen Nelson-Nelson Performance

To: flyer@*.com

Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 11:46 PM

Subject: RE: Starting to give up on you



Man, what a day, I burned 4 pcms tonight and not one has the seg id, what a pita, lol.



What do you need to do from here?



Talk to you soon,



allen



Nelson Performance

Dyno Tuning

99-04 GM Trucks/SUV

LS1Truck

Your Community for late-model

GM Trucks and LS1 Conversions



Please reply with all previous correspondence

Flyer

iTrader: (1)

From: flyer@*.com [mailto:flyer@*.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 12:05 AM
To: allen@*.com
Subject: Re: Starting to give up on you



I think it would be easier for you and I both if it just came from Speartech. I don't mind paying him for it if that's what it's going to take to get the file.



What did you think about the dyno deal? I think another board member is going to come if I make it down there.



Nathan

Flyer

iTrader: (1)

From: Allen Nelson-Nelson Performance

To: flyer@*.com

Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 12:16 AM

Subject: RE: Starting to give up on you



Ya, it’s now tomorrow, so I guess you better, man what a bummer, sorry about that, I probably have almost every seg id except that one, what luck.



I think it was 40 or 50 bucks, I’ll paypal you the money for all the trouble. The last thing I want is for you to think I’m not supporting you, so let me know.



Here’s an option on the dyno, bring your truck down and let’s get a lot of data on it. I need to send chevy hi performance some dyno data comparing all the pulleys, intake air, timing, a/f , coolant temp, etc and see what pulley makes the best power and when does the smaller pulley start to loose power.

I’ll cut you a badass deal on the dyno tune if you want. The other board member can get a dyno tune for the price of a shop/mail tune.



On yours we’ll need it for a few hours, how long do you think you can stay?



allen



Nelson Performance

Dyno Tuning

99-04 GM Trucks/SUV

LS1Truck

Your Community for late-model

GM Trucks and LS1 Conversions



Please reply with all previous correspondence

Flyer

iTrader: (1)

From: flyer@*.com [mailto:flyer@*.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 12:32 AM
To: allen@*.com
Subject: Re: Starting to give up on you



What kind of deal are you talking about on the dyno runs? Keep in mind I have yet to get a good tune from you ever since I originally paid for the tuning.



I don't think that mine would be a good test sample for the testing since it's got the cam and a few other modifications that would skew a 'base' test. What would I get for being the test mule for the magazine if you did end up using mine anyways?



I think <board member> and maybe a couple other Houston guys would be interested in coming over too.



Nathan

Flyer

iTrader: (1)

From: Allen Nelson-Nelson Performance

To: flyer@*.com

Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 8:07 PM

Subject: RE: Starting to give up on you



Hi Nathan,



I wouldn’t mind at all giving your truck a good tune on the street (which is the best in my opinion), then fine tuning it on the dyno. Existing customers will get a discount for a dyno tune, and new customers will pay normal dyno tuning prices. I would just charge you an hour of dyno time no matter how long it takes.



I’m still getting details on the magazine, but we are looking for data , not really if the truck is stock. Things like iat, timing, etc.



The dyno is almost ready for the public, I’ve been playing with it for two days now, man what a lot of tables and buttons, lol.



Talk to you soon,



allen



Nelson Performance

Dyno Tuning

99-04 GM Trucks/SUV

LS1Truck

Your Community for late-model

GM Trucks and LS1 Conversions



Please reply with all previous correspondence

Flyer

iTrader: (1)

From: flyer@*.com [mailto:flyer@*.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 8:38 PM
To: allen@*.com
Subject: Re: Starting to give up on you



Allen,



I think I would prefer to get a refund. I've been considering this for some time now. I think that might be the better thing to do. I have recieved 2 files from you, both of which I had to fix after you sent them to me. We did go through the tuning when I was down in San Antonio, but after all was done, the only thing different was 1* of timing added to what I already had in there.



This issue, I've tried to get a file from you for around 2 months now. I have had many many emails ignored and several phone calls not returned. I would say this has been less than desirable to say the least. I mentioned a long time ago that John @ Speartech may be able to shed some light on it. I thin that might have been one of the emails that never got a response.



Anyways, I was willing to work something out, but to be honest, I think I would really be happier with a refund.



Thanks,

Nathan McDaniel

Flyer

iTrader: (1)

From: Allen Nelson-Nelson Performance

To: flyer@*.com

Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 10:55 PM

Subject: RE: Starting to give up on you



Hi Nathan,



My policy is anyone can receive a full refund, minus shipping, before 30 days is up; no questions asked. It’s been far too long for a refund, more than 3 months. I see my tune as a modification to your truck and there’s no way you can remove your other mods after 30 days and return them.



I understand you came down for a tune and your truck had problems before the tune. If you were to of asked for a refund right after the tune (before 30 days) I would have been more than happy to give you a refund. I have to be fair on the tunes, however what you’re asking is way more than any tuner would go for.



I do propose this. Let’s get your truck running badass now that you have that file, let’s send some logs back and forth and we’ll get it perfect. Since you have edit, it’s going to work out just right. I’ll be here for any tech support and any mods you need done to your file.

I will say this before we begin on the tuning; I consider my tunes confidential and I asked any customer that has ls1edit to treat my tunes as confidential and not share them with other board members.



I said I would paypal you the cost of the file Speartech has sent you but in all fairness I don’t understand how you can ask for a refund. Like I said before it’s been too long and you’ve had problems with your truck to give any tuning a chance.

Btw, I do have your file now, I wasn’t going to give up until I got it, I figured I would need it sometime in the future for another customer. So if for any reason you need to load a stock HD file let me know.



Let me know when you want to start on the tuning, I’m sure we can get it running pretty fast.





allen









Nelson Performance

Dyno Tuning

99-04 GM Trucks/SUV

LS1Truck

Your Community for late-model

GM Trucks and LS1 Conversions



Please reply with all previous correspondence

CHAGO

iTrader: (1)

well, looks like I'll have to find someone else to do my tuning, because I'm in no way near as patient as you.

Flyer

iTrader: (1)

This one is 2 reply's in one as well. The black text is what I originally wrote, and the blue is Allen's reply.

From: flyer@*.com [mailto:flyer@*.com]
Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 8:47 AM
To: allen@*.com
Subject: Re: Starting to give up on you



I think I understand what you're saying, but I think you should take the time to understand where I'm coming from as well. While, you are right, there is no way to remove a modification after 30 days and return it. In my case, there is no modification to move. The ONLY tunes I have gotten from you were for a modified idle to work with the cam. These were not even that great. I had to go through and raise all shift points and rev limiters to at least run half way decently, which I made very sure you were very aware of what I was wanting to shift at. You even asked me on more than one occasion. These 2 tunes that you sent me for the idle that were still heavily changed by me because they didn't run right, took me a long time and several emails to get because I kept getting blwon off, ignored, or lost, whichever you prefer to call them.

[Allen Nelson] Nathan, as soon as a customer purchases a PCM/Tune the policy applies. A customer can request a refund before 30 days is up. My policy does not state, once a customer figures out his truck problems and becomes familiar with LS1Edit he can request a refund. Can you imagine if I sent tunes out via email, customers read them and got familiar with what is changed, then requested a refund, how that would affect me?? If you could tune your truck yourself, you would have never come down to SA for a tune.



This recent tuning issue is what really pushed it over the edge for me. It has taken 2 months for you to come up with anything, and a very stern email before I got a timely response and some kind of progress towards the problem. The progress made was half done by me already. I contacted Speartech long before this and asked them about it, them saying that they should have no problem doing getting the file. I held off as it wasn't absolutely needed at the time thinking you would be able to get it for me. In the end, I ended up getting the file myself for $50. [Allen Nelson]You mention you needed a file for two months, but them you contacted Speartech when you absolutely needed the tune. So, you really didn’t need a tune until just last week, I’m just questioning that because it doesn’t make sense to me.



If there will be no way of getting timely emails, at least more than one reply a week and only getting that one reply after several emails, I honestly don't want to work with you like that. Please understand that while you do present a good reason for not giving a refund, your reason does not apply to me whatso ever. If you remember I had the PCM flashed which wiped out all programing. I had to go through and re-program the entire file because I could not get a response out of you to provide me with the programming. Therefore, there is none of you're work done to my truck currently.

[Allen Nelson] Like I’ve told many others that have understood, I had computer problems for about a month and lost tons of emails. I even had something on my website that said so. So, if I missed any of your emails, that is why. I’m sure you’ve had computer problems and understand that.

If I were to refund your money, how on earth could I get my tune back? After it has been looked at, passed around and used, then destroyed, I’m left with nothing except refunding you. My policy is, when a refund is given to the customer, I receive my tune and a stock pcm is returned.



Thank you for listening and understanding. I hope that we can come to a resolution quickly and agreeable upon both of us.


[Allen Nelson] now that my computer hasn’t messed up for weeks now, I’m sure we can email one another with no problems. I’ve replaced everything on my computer and no problems.

My offer still stands; send me some logs and we can get your truck running just right. You can even bring it down and I’ll take care of you on the dyno.





Regardless of all that was said above and in previous emails, what it comes down to is the policy is 30 days. It’s been very long and if you would have said something just a few days after 30days, I would have considered a refund.



I’m sure you’re comfortable with edit and can tune your truck on your own now, but if everyone did that and then wanted a refund, I might as well not even charge for email tunes. I’d like to mention that if you’d like, I’d be more than happy to send you that 6L file and we can continue tuning your truck. If $50 is what you paid for the file, then I’ll paypal that money to you.

I don’t like bad blood between fellow truck enthusiasts, nor do I want any enemies, so please take a look at it from my side and understand that I cannot refund customers just because they don’t want the tune anymore when it’s been more than 30 days.



Let me know if we can get started on tuning your truck and how you want to proceed. I’m very interested in being a part of making your truck faster.



Thanks,



allen





Nathan

CHAGO

iTrader: (1)

shady shady shady

Flyer

iTrader: (1)

These emails are completely unedited except for the *'s just to keep him and I from getting hoards of mail.

Now that it's out, here's my side of the story.

I tried offering an easy way out, Allen would have been out dyno time, and I would have been a happy customer, since I would have gotten my tune I paid for months ago and never recieved, initially not completely his problem, but later became solely because of him. I even mentioned I was going to bring 1 new customer for sure, and a few other guys may have come over for some dyno pulls.

What he offered me in return was charging me for an hour of dyno time for him to use and abuse my truck on the dyno for his benefit to supply the magazine for info promoting him. I think that for the troubles I've gone to, the free dyno time would have been more than fair. I think for using my truck for the mag article, I think there should have been a kickback to me for supplying the test mule, that was never mentioned by me or him though.

I think Allen has some very valid points for not giving a refund, but as I told him in the email, I think they don't apply to me. Let's keep in mind that I have not gotten a tune from him that was usable. He did send me a PCM, I sent it back within a week, and got 2 notices from him asking for it back. This was some time ago. During that time, he kept promising me a performance tune, and never followed through. I did get 2 tunes from him strictly for idling with the cam. These tunes I still had to go through and change all the shift points and rev limiters as well as some TQM stuff that should have never been there to begin with.

When I initially paid for the tuning and made the 6 hour drive for him to tune my truck hands on, we did make a very legitimate and valid attempt to get it tuned. Due to some mechanical difficulties though, that never happened. We agreed we would continue through the email and get the tune dead on that way. Needless to say, that never happened, it kept getting put off regardless of a few emails sent back and forth.

Flyer

iTrader: (1)

Because of the time that was spent initially, I would even be happy with a 75 - 60% refund.

moregrip

iTrader: (8)

I'm sure your not the only one flyer.

It's more balanced to hear "the good" and "the not so good" about a company/business. Also, thanks for posting the above, I know that took some guts as there are alot of very happy allen tuned customers round here.

and lastly, sorry about your troubles, it does tend to sour the excitement.

8100hammer

What was the tuning did he ever did or that you brought in the first place?? So when I buy a Whopper combo and only get the fries, I am not intitled to a refund? One thing is not right here, the customer is always right always. Am I wrong to say that if he(nelson) had given you the right tune from the start, would this had happen??
But on other hand sound like he wants to make it right. But if I were nelson, I would pay for everything. heck rent a car hauler so you would not to have to put the miles going to the shop. I bet that if he did that, you would have nothing but praise for him. Thats the right way of take care of customers.

I am losing faith in these mail-order tunes, I have a westers tune, I order an update on the 28th of july. I have yet to see a box on my door step. I did get tracking number, nope. I did get charge $200 for the core, yep. Will this be my last mail -order tune, yes!! Can't stand buisness that make sure they get your money first, reguardless if your not happy with their serivces. Not thinking that people will not buy again from them. The machine company I work for, we are always higher price than competion, but can't make parts fast enough and jobs keep coming in why, Extemely high quality work and First Rate Customer Service. Thats what SELLS PEROID!!!!!!!

Sorry for long .02 cents

CHAGO

iTrader: (1)

I agree with you 200%
problems will occur eventually, no doubt. the problem I see is the lack of customer service, and the lack of desire to make the customer happy and try to change shoes and see where they are coming from. a company should never get so big as to where they start forgetting about people and thinking that they can do that because of new customers coming in. one bad experience in my business and you'll loose many new potential clients, because after hearing a horror story no one wants to run the risk of being a victim.