Stay away from Greg Welds!!!
09-20-2008, 01:08 PM
#21
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I'm with you, not taking them back because they were mounted? WTF? They said they would fit. Not like it's a custom application. It's a stock car with stock brakes.
I would take it up with my Credit card Co. The Credit card co, will be able to get their $ from Summit and credit your account.
If you want to sell the fronts, shoot me a pm. I do want a set of fronts.
Also, I have a full spare set of calipers off an 00 SS. (not mine) I was going to powder coat them and swap them with mine. Shoot me an offer if you want them.
I would take it up with my Credit card Co. The Credit card co, will be able to get their $ from Summit and credit your account.
If you want to sell the fronts, shoot me a pm. I do want a set of fronts.
Also, I have a full spare set of calipers off an 00 SS. (not mine) I was going to powder coat them and swap them with mine. Shoot me an offer if you want them.
09-21-2008, 08:47 AM
#22
I'm with you, not taking them back because they were mounted? WTF? They said they would fit. Not like it's a custom application. It's a stock car with stock brakes.
I would take it up with my Credit card Co. The Credit card co, will be able to get their $ from Summit and credit your account.
I would take it up with my Credit card Co. The Credit card co, will be able to get their $ from Summit and credit your account.
CC filing may work initially but not in the end. It in my opinion is not owning up to your own mistakes. Would anyone purchase a piece of clothing without trying it on even though a sale person said it would fit? Wear it, stain it or rip it then try to return the clothing stating it didn't fit as the sales person stated? ..Then try to bully the company with a false CC claim?
Here is their policy, very simple to understand.
http://summitracing.custhelp.com/cgi...p_sp=undefined
Whether a representative states a product should work for an application or not, it is the responsibility within reason to verify something actually works for the application. BEFORE the person alters or makes the part a "used" part, it cannot be resold as new. With some reasonable judgement, the wheels could have been returned easily if they were NOT mounted. It is 100% the fault of the purchaser they didn't at least take 5 minutes and test a wheel for fitment. Even the backspace being 4.5" was probably way off even IF they fit (unless the rear-end was shortened quite a bit).
This return policy is standard practice in the wheel industry for just about every wheel company. Whether it is custom or not. This would be just like the shoe comparison (though trivial) I made eariler. Simply put, typically most manufactures or vendors will not return something they cannot resell.
How can anyone expect or consider anything else. Think of it this way, if you or anyone else was selling parts, would you accept the part back if you cannot resell it? You guys complain about costs of things for the cars, do you realize how much more expensive parts would be if we as manufactures and vendors had to eat everything that a consumer altered/messed up. Who do you think pays for this? How would you like to know a new part you may want is 20.00 more to cover costs of good that people just try or "rent"?
09-21-2008, 05:02 PM
#24
I don't understand what apparantly seems confusing to some of you?
Once you mount the wheels, there's obvious mounting marks, chances of the wheel being damaged from mounting i.e. bending the wheel etc. Once again, it is very simple, don't mount the wheels, try them, if they don't work, they can be sent back for a refund or exchange.
This is no different then many vast amount of items in the world...you can't simple use a product alter it from original and expect to get a refund for the item.
There is SO much less work if a person just tried them before they went through the hassle of bringing wheels to a shop, having them mounted and balanced THEN try them...especially if it's a NEW product never used on a car which the buyer assumed. ...this is backwards in any way of thinking.
I'll get this every so often. We send out a set of our wheels...they are tested before they go out to the customer making sure they pass runnout as well as other criteria... the customer has them mounted, and THEN they say, "the wheel's bent" The tire installer states it "has to be the manufactures problem". Meanwhile, we get it back for review...and their are marks all over the wheel from the installer screwing it up. Where it's "out" is where the wheel was being held or clamped. So who's the responsible party??
Clearly, we are not going to cover costs from a tire installer screwing up wheels and covering the costs for their mistakes. It is the tire installer's fault. This is what I'll see "don't buy one of our Bogart wheels, they do not send straight wheels.".
Just like any product, you need to look things over to make sure they are ok before changes occur.
Everyone makes mistakes. We do as well. No one is perfect. As with this case, the owner purchased wheels, screwed up by mounting and balancing them before they even thought to possibly try them on the car to make sure they even worked. Now he is mad and posts for everyone to not buy a product from someone because he didn't think to actually test fit the wheels before he went through quite a bit of hassle.
Once you mount the wheels, there's obvious mounting marks, chances of the wheel being damaged from mounting i.e. bending the wheel etc. Once again, it is very simple, don't mount the wheels, try them, if they don't work, they can be sent back for a refund or exchange.
This is no different then many vast amount of items in the world...you can't simple use a product alter it from original and expect to get a refund for the item.
There is SO much less work if a person just tried them before they went through the hassle of bringing wheels to a shop, having them mounted and balanced THEN try them...especially if it's a NEW product never used on a car which the buyer assumed. ...this is backwards in any way of thinking.
I'll get this every so often. We send out a set of our wheels...they are tested before they go out to the customer making sure they pass runnout as well as other criteria... the customer has them mounted, and THEN they say, "the wheel's bent" The tire installer states it "has to be the manufactures problem". Meanwhile, we get it back for review...and their are marks all over the wheel from the installer screwing it up. Where it's "out" is where the wheel was being held or clamped. So who's the responsible party??
Clearly, we are not going to cover costs from a tire installer screwing up wheels and covering the costs for their mistakes. It is the tire installer's fault. This is what I'll see "don't buy one of our Bogart wheels, they do not send straight wheels.".
Just like any product, you need to look things over to make sure they are ok before changes occur.
Everyone makes mistakes. We do as well. No one is perfect. As with this case, the owner purchased wheels, screwed up by mounting and balancing them before they even thought to possibly try them on the car to make sure they even worked. Now he is mad and posts for everyone to not buy a product from someone because he didn't think to actually test fit the wheels before he went through quite a bit of hassle.
09-21-2008, 06:19 PM
#26
Mounting/balancing a tire on a wheel is completely different then test fitting a wheel on a car to see if it may work for your application.
I'll go back to the shoe example, when you purchase shoes, do you wear them out on the town before you're sure you like them? Or do you try them in the store or in your home on your carpet where they show zero signs of damage? This way when you ask for a refund, they can be resold if returned.
Would you want to purchase a pair of shoes that looked used? Would you want to purchase a set of wheels that were used where when they were mounted, the previous person could have bent them? Are you willing to take that chance?
I'm not discussing anything new in the world. These return policies have been in place for years and years. Not only for wheels...but for most products.
I'll go back to the shoe example, when you purchase shoes, do you wear them out on the town before you're sure you like them? Or do you try them in the store or in your home on your carpet where they show zero signs of damage? This way when you ask for a refund, they can be resold if returned.
Would you want to purchase a pair of shoes that looked used? Would you want to purchase a set of wheels that were used where when they were mounted, the previous person could have bent them? Are you willing to take that chance?
I'm not discussing anything new in the world. These return policies have been in place for years and years. Not only for wheels...but for most products.
Last edited by SJM Manufacturing Inc; 09-21-2008 at 06:27 PM.
09-21-2008, 10:59 PM
#27
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CC filing may work initially but not in the end. It in my opinion is not owning up to your own mistakes. Would anyone purchase a piece of clothing without trying it on even though a sale person said it would fit? Wear it, stain it or rip it then try to return the clothing stating it didn't fit as the sales person stated? ..Then try to bully the company with a false CC claim?
Here is their policy, very simple to understand.
http://summitracing.custhelp.com/cgi...p_sp=undefined
Whether a representative states a product should work for an application or not, it is the responsibility within reason to verify something actually works for the application. BEFORE the person alters or makes the part a "used" part, it cannot be resold as new. With some reasonable judgement, the wheels could have been returned easily if they were NOT mounted. It is 100% the fault of the purchaser they didn't at least take 5 minutes and test a wheel for fitment. Even the backspace being 4.5" was probably way off even IF they fit (unless the rear-end was shortened quite a bit).
This return policy is standard practice in the wheel industry for just about every wheel company. Whether it is custom or not. This would be just like the shoe comparison (though trivial) I made eariler. Simply put, typically most manufactures or vendors will not return something they cannot resell.
How can anyone expect or consider anything else. Think of it this way, if you or anyone else was selling parts, would you accept the part back if you cannot resell it? You guys complain about costs of things for the cars, do you realize how much more expensive parts would be if we as manufactures and vendors had to eat everything that a consumer altered/messed up. Who do you think pays for this? How would you like to know a new part you may want is 20.00 more to cover costs of good that people just try or "rent"?
Here is their policy, very simple to understand.
http://summitracing.custhelp.com/cgi...p_sp=undefined
Whether a representative states a product should work for an application or not, it is the responsibility within reason to verify something actually works for the application. BEFORE the person alters or makes the part a "used" part, it cannot be resold as new. With some reasonable judgement, the wheels could have been returned easily if they were NOT mounted. It is 100% the fault of the purchaser they didn't at least take 5 minutes and test a wheel for fitment. Even the backspace being 4.5" was probably way off even IF they fit (unless the rear-end was shortened quite a bit).
This return policy is standard practice in the wheel industry for just about every wheel company. Whether it is custom or not. This would be just like the shoe comparison (though trivial) I made eariler. Simply put, typically most manufactures or vendors will not return something they cannot resell.
How can anyone expect or consider anything else. Think of it this way, if you or anyone else was selling parts, would you accept the part back if you cannot resell it? You guys complain about costs of things for the cars, do you realize how much more expensive parts would be if we as manufactures and vendors had to eat everything that a consumer altered/messed up. Who do you think pays for this? How would you like to know a new part you may want is 20.00 more to cover costs of good that people just try or "rent"?
The 2 front rims fit with no problem.. I mounted 1 rear tire and tried to put the wheel on and it didn't fit. Thats when I broke out the grinder on the caliper. I wore holes in the caliper grinding so much. After taking the tire off of the rim there was no marks what so ever on the rim. After speaking to Mike Herzog over at Greg Welds he assured me they would make this right. Even offered to pay for the blown caliper, which I kindly declined. It wasn't them who grinded the caliper down it was me. But the site did say it would fit without grinding and it didn't!! That then becomes false advertisement!! Why should the customer be made to eat the cost of a product that doesn't work the way you said it should or be forced to sell the product for a fraction of what they paid for it?? After waiting 5 months on Mikes word he backed out on it because I decided I needed to make a move. I am racing in pinks allout in December and I need to finish getting the bugs worked out of my car and these stupid rims were holding me back!! A company is only as good as it's word!! And if you continuously screw the customers you won't be in buisness for long. If you buy something that doesn't work the way it should or the way they said it would work you would want your money back to!! The examples you are using is not even in the same ball park of what I am trying to say. I didn't put these rims on my car and wear them out, they wasn't even used. One of them didn't even have a tire mounted on it. 2nd Mike said he would make things right and didn't follow through!! If this is how you also conduct your buisness I'm sure most folks on this site would find there Bogarts somewhere else!! Don't say your going to do something then not follow through.
Last edited by odarabla; 09-21-2008 at 11:11 PM.
09-22-2008, 10:00 AM
#28
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Either way it boils down to this man, right on the box it states in BIG letters, RIM CANNOT BE RETURNED IF MOUNTED.
I was in the same boat as you, I got my wheels in and was so anxious to put them on that I ALMOST mounted them up that day, but instead I took them home and fit them first and guess what, they didn't fit.
No matter what Mike at Greg Weld said, and no matter how much you complain, you mounted up the wheel before test fitting it, so now it CANNOT be returned.
Is it wrong? Yes, they should take it back.
But do they have to take it back?? No.
Your best bet would be sticking them on ebay and try to sell them there.
I was in the same boat as you, I got my wheels in and was so anxious to put them on that I ALMOST mounted them up that day, but instead I took them home and fit them first and guess what, they didn't fit.
No matter what Mike at Greg Weld said, and no matter how much you complain, you mounted up the wheel before test fitting it, so now it CANNOT be returned.
Is it wrong? Yes, they should take it back.
But do they have to take it back?? No.
Your best bet would be sticking them on ebay and try to sell them there.
09-22-2008, 10:21 AM
#29
Either way it boils down to this man, right on the box it states in BIG letters, RIM CANNOT BE RETURNED IF MOUNTED.
I was in the same boat as you, I got my wheels in and was so anxious to put them on that I ALMOST mounted them up that day, but instead I took them home and fit them first and guess what, they didn't fit.
No matter what Mike at Greg Weld said, and no matter how much you complain, you mounted up the wheel before test fitting it, so now it CANNOT be returned.
Is it wrong? Yes, they should take it back.
But do they have to take it back?? No.
Your best bet would be sticking them on ebay and try to sell them there.
I was in the same boat as you, I got my wheels in and was so anxious to put them on that I ALMOST mounted them up that day, but instead I took them home and fit them first and guess what, they didn't fit.
No matter what Mike at Greg Weld said, and no matter how much you complain, you mounted up the wheel before test fitting it, so now it CANNOT be returned.
Is it wrong? Yes, they should take it back.
But do they have to take it back?? No.
Your best bet would be sticking them on ebay and try to sell them there.
09-22-2008, 10:27 AM
#30
You don't seem to understand what you did. If the manufacture did suggest they were going to do all of this for you… what you are stating, they would have taken it back. It seems apparent that you've had misunderstanding with them the entire time. Now that you don't get your way, you want everyone else to boycott their products. I don't design their wheels, nor do I have anything to do with your transaction or their products...but what you're doing struck a chord with me.
It is people like you who bitch because they screwed something up and can't take the blame for what they did. IF any product did not work the way you "thought" it would, then you don't alter or damage it in any way. If you would have put a little thought into your purchase and maybe tested it first before changing anything, you wouldn't be in here bitching.
Other members had the same thing happen to them when the test fitted their wheels…then sent them back to Summit Racing because they TESTED the wheels and didn’t mount or alter them. You didn’t so you bitch. You even went as far as to do what it takes to make it fit and ruined your calipers…another indication that you made poor decisions. Your false advertisement statement is another indication you are wrong. Welds site probably stated something to the extent that their wheels fit many late model applications easier or something to that extent. No 15” wheel will fit every application especially for a vehicle like yours that uses floating calipers!!!! For that matter, every wheel is not going to fit every application …thus the reason why you TEST it first. Stop crying about it and take the loss due to your negligence and sell them used which is about the only think you can do.
As far as purchasing our wheels or any other vendor’s products, people who try strong-arm tactics bitching because they screw something up are not customers that any of us want. Now you’ll probably go out and boycott our wheels too even though everything I’ve stated thus far makes sense (at least to others.).
Go back and REAREAD my statements and my direct link to companies wheel policies. They are instilled for a reason…not to screw the original purchaser, but to PROTECT the other customers by not allowing them to purchase a used item thinking it was new!
It is people like you who bitch because they screwed something up and can't take the blame for what they did. IF any product did not work the way you "thought" it would, then you don't alter or damage it in any way. If you would have put a little thought into your purchase and maybe tested it first before changing anything, you wouldn't be in here bitching.
Other members had the same thing happen to them when the test fitted their wheels…then sent them back to Summit Racing because they TESTED the wheels and didn’t mount or alter them. You didn’t so you bitch. You even went as far as to do what it takes to make it fit and ruined your calipers…another indication that you made poor decisions. Your false advertisement statement is another indication you are wrong. Welds site probably stated something to the extent that their wheels fit many late model applications easier or something to that extent. No 15” wheel will fit every application especially for a vehicle like yours that uses floating calipers!!!! For that matter, every wheel is not going to fit every application …thus the reason why you TEST it first. Stop crying about it and take the loss due to your negligence and sell them used which is about the only think you can do.
As far as purchasing our wheels or any other vendor’s products, people who try strong-arm tactics bitching because they screw something up are not customers that any of us want. Now you’ll probably go out and boycott our wheels too even though everything I’ve stated thus far makes sense (at least to others.).
Go back and REAREAD my statements and my direct link to companies wheel policies. They are instilled for a reason…not to screw the original purchaser, but to PROTECT the other customers by not allowing them to purchase a used item thinking it was new!
09-22-2008, 10:33 AM
#31
09-22-2008, 10:44 AM
#32
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Either way it boils down to this man, right on the box it states in BIG letters, RIM CANNOT BE RETURNED IF MOUNTED.
I was in the same boat as you, I got my wheels in and was so anxious to put them on that I ALMOST mounted them up that day, but instead I took them home and fit them first and guess what, they didn't fit.
No matter what Mike at Greg Weld said, and no matter how much you complain, you mounted up the wheel before test fitting it, so now it CANNOT be returned.
Is it wrong? Yes, they should take it back.
But do they have to take it back?? No.
Your best bet would be sticking them on ebay and try to sell them there.
I was in the same boat as you, I got my wheels in and was so anxious to put them on that I ALMOST mounted them up that day, but instead I took them home and fit them first and guess what, they didn't fit.
No matter what Mike at Greg Weld said, and no matter how much you complain, you mounted up the wheel before test fitting it, so now it CANNOT be returned.
Is it wrong? Yes, they should take it back.
But do they have to take it back?? No.
Your best bet would be sticking them on ebay and try to sell them there.
I got the box right here in front of me and no where on this box does it have that!!
09-22-2008, 11:12 AM
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I suppose eveyone will have there own views. Should I have checked them first, yes!! But I didn't on a companies word. Then I've waited for the last 5 months to get the revised wheel and I didn't on a companies word. If people think it's acceptable to give your word and then back out of the deal then thats fine with me. Will I ever do buisness again with this company? NO! Will I ever recommend anyone to do buisness with this company? NO! Will I go on different web sites and complain about them not keeping there word? YES!! Had they told me from the get go they couldn't take these wheels back I wouldn't have been as pissed as I am now after 5 months of waiting!! It's chicken **** and no matter if I should have checked them or not he gave me his word and backed out!! 
This is the way I feel and if this would have happened to anyone else they would feel the same way after waiting as long as I did!!
This is the way I feel and if this would have happened to anyone else they would feel the same way after waiting as long as I did!!
09-22-2008, 11:26 AM
#34
The 2 front rims fit with no problem.. I mounted 1 rear tire and tried to put the wheel on and it didn't fit. Thats when I broke out the grinder on the caliper. I wore holes in the caliper grinding so much. After taking the tire off of the rim there was no marks what so ever on the rim. After speaking to Mike Herzog over at Greg Welds he assured me they would make this right. Even offered to pay for the blown caliper, which I kindly declined. It wasn't them who grinded the caliper down it was me. But the site did say it would fit without grinding and it didn't!! That then becomes false advertisement!! Why should the customer be made to eat the cost of a product that doesn't work the way you said it should or be forced to sell the product for a fraction of what they paid for it?? After waiting 5 months on Mikes word he backed out on it because I decided I needed to make a move. I am racing in pinks allout in December and I need to finish getting the bugs worked out of my car and these stupid rims were holding me back!! A company is only as good as it's word!! And if you continuously screw the customers you won't be in buisness for long. If you buy something that doesn't work the way it should or the way they said it would work you would want your money back to!! The examples you are using is not even in the same ball park of what I am trying to say. I didn't put these rims on my car and wear them out, they wasn't even used. One of them didn't even have a tire mounted on it. 2nd Mike said he would make things right and didn't follow through!! If this is how you also conduct your buisness I'm sure most folks on this site would find there Bogarts somewhere else!! Don't say your going to do something then not follow through.
I bought a set of custom forged wheels for my car. I have not mounted tires due to the fact that they are 4th gen spec wheels and will not fit without adapters on a 3rd gen. Its not a hard concept to grasp.
It is also not false advertisement because it doesn't fit. It means that they were wrong on fitment. Its not false advertisement unless they knowingly sell something incorrect.
Suck it up, admit you're wrong and move on.
09-22-2008, 12:10 PM
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I say post up pics of the box, I just went out into storage and there are over 50 boxes all from DIFFERENT companies and each and every one of them says the same thing, Rim is non-returnable if mounted. That is the case with every company no matter what and every company will not take the rim back if it has been mounted.
09-22-2008, 01:47 PM
#36
Should I have checked them first, yes!! But I didn't on a companies word. Then I've waited for the last 5 months to get the revised wheel and I didn't on a companies word. If people think it's acceptable to give your word and then back out of the deal then thats fine with me. Will I ever do buisness again with this company? NO! Will I ever recommend anyone to do buisness with this company? NO! Will I go on different web sites and complain about them not keeping there word? YES!! Had they told me from the get go they couldn't take these wheels back I wouldn't have been as pissed as I am now after 5 months of waiting!! It's chicken **** and no matter if I should have checked them or not he gave me his word and backed out!! This is the way I feel and if this would have happened to anyone else they would feel the same way after waiting as long as I did!!
This is the way I feel and if this would have happened to anyone else they would feel the same way after waiting as long as I did!!Maybe they don't want to further invest time in the wheel, maybe they tried and they couldn't find a solution to keep the price of the wheel low or other reason. They don't owe you a damn thing. They provided you with a product that has no defect or functionality issue. It just didn't work for you!
You have at least a buyers responsibility (as quoted earlier) to test to make sure it fits YOUR application BEFORE you mount it or modify your car to TRY to make it work. So go on now and bitch on all the other boards.
At this point, you are nothing but a disgruntled buyer attempting to slander and strong-arm a company for doing nothing wrong. Hopefully, Billet Speciality doesn't have to deal further with you once you get your new wheels.
