slayer_taunu

iTrader: (3)

my current DD is an 88 GTA, which is in aweful need to be taken off the road to be restored. I was looking at getting a 'normal' car in the sub $4k range (ideally sub $3k if i can find a non-pos).

I was looking at 99-05 3.4L Grand Am's, and 97-03 3.8L N/A Grand Prix... I was originally look at the GA/GP for the real back seat and trunk... and then i saw that V6 4th gen f-bodies get about the same mileage as the GA/GP (at least according to the EPA), so they are now on the consideration list cuz honestly, i'd prefer a RWD car (just a personal bias), and i've managed to get by this long without a real back seat or trunk, so why start now?

so i tried searching for a list of differences between the V6 and V8 f-bodies, but couldn't come up with a comprehensive list. can anyone fill in the blanks here?

-when did the 3.8L become standard? 96? I'm really only considering 96+ anyways for the OBDII computer (tuning out codes and whatnot)

-did V6's ever get 4-wheel disc brakes standard? or is this an option i need to look for?

-did 2.73 gears ever come with an LSD? (on a V6, i view this more as a safety option rather than performance)

-anything else significant anyone can think of? (besides the engine and suspension)

i read a couple threads of people saying their V6 doesnt get any better mileage than an LS1, but i'm seeing a lot of conflicting information. i'm thinking that is right-foot dependent... the f-body weighs very close to the GP (about 3400lbs depending on trim), and the f-body has got to be more aerodynamic, so I can't imagine the mileage being much different.

Joshu

iTrader: (1)

Fact: My Ls1 gets better MPG than my old 3.4 V6 (and I took care of that engine).

And one difference to add to your list is different drive shafts.

elias_799

iTrader: (8)

just get an lt1 camaro. i am sure you can find one for $4000

lo_jack

iTrader: (27)

The short answer is it was available in 96, but if I were you I would aim for a 99+.


Yes, I think 98+ but 99 for certain - it was the same timeframe as the LS1 changeover. If you are in the mood, you are looking for a Y87 car, which comes with uplevel steering (quicker rack) and a limited slip rear, rear disc.

That I do not remember, but to be honest, but I do not think they put anything numerically lower than ~3.23 with the posi.

99+ has a straight upper intake manifold and drive by wire throttlebody.
HP tuners has good support of 3.8.


Everything else is the same as what you are used to, the engine and suspension are the only changes. There is really not much to the suspension, and everything LS1 is a direct swap anyhow, even your aluminum driveshaft (which I recommend). The stock one is either 2 piece (really sucks) or one piece steel (mildly sucks). Spring rates and sway bars are different, but direct swap.

The motor and transmissions are the nuance. A well maintained 3.8 is a workhorse, descent on the gas and super easy to repair or replace, all things equal. 3.8 is essentially the same from 97 to the current Lucerne, which STILL uses a 3.8 (with FWD accessories) when GM thought the 3.8 would be done years ago.

If you leave a well maintained 3.8 pretty stock, and do intake and exhaust, stay out of it and keep your tires properly inflated, you will do better than an LS1 at the pump. I got 40 highway in my bone stock 96k mile car when I got it. I started modding and it never got there again. Weight is ~3300.

www.fullthrottlev6.com has a pretty good FAQ on the differences between the 6s, what you are looking for and what the possibilities are. From what I hear, I'd skip the LT1 unless it is so cheap you can't pass it up. But unless you leave the v6 fbody alone, you will eventually drag the mileage down...it just happens.

Fact: The 3.4 is a wee bit slow compared to the 3.8 dbw 200 at the crank.

Fotis

iTrader: (2)

1998-2008 got 4 wheel disk brakes and ABS is pretty standard
1993-1997 had rear drum brakes.

the V8 gets etter gas milage because you get the sixth gear but that again really applies to the LS eqipped 1998-2002 F-body the 1993-1997 had an LT motor the weighd 700 Lb and gas milage isn't that different then the 1993-1997 V6... also the reason why the V8 gets better gas milages is casue it has really wide gears for the manual,(ABOUT) 50 in first, 70 in second, 90 in third, 120 fourth, 150 fifth, 167 sixth (governed) so since it had wide gears your doing 80 on the highway at 2000 RPM which is 1000 more the idle so pretty much you stay at lower RPM


the 3.8L Series II V6 is a good motor though, it will easly go up to 150K or more

most 1993-1997 V6 Firebird's and Camaro's have un even tread wear in the front tires dow to the less weight on the front end, alignment wont help cause there is not enough room to alight in it really just needs the weight , the 1998-2002 are pretty good about alighnment

you don't get the G90 Posi Traction on a 1993-2002 V6 F-body

if you do go with a V8 and get the Lt just know its a cast iron block... iron rusts and often time cracks under stress, and it also weights about 700Lb were the Ls motor is aluminum, and only weighs about 300Lb

i agree with you getting a 1996+ OBDII cause its easy to figure stuff out with that

pretty much if you get a 4th Gen F-body try to get a 1998-2008
and in my opinon don't get and V8 with and Lt

most 1998-2002 V8 F-bodies came with a light weight aluminum drive shaft with the V6 came with steel

slayer_taunu

iTrader: (3)

Guys, forgot to mention that I'm looking to get an automatic transmission because this is a DD and will see rush hour traffic. My Firehawk is a 6-speed and is my weekend/fun car.

i do have a spare LS1 driveshaft, as i got a new 1350yoke DS when i got the 12-bolt for my Hawk.

not really considering an LT1, as i want to run 87 octane, and the LT1 engine bay looks even worse to work on than the L98 in my 3rd gen.

if i find a V6 f-body that i like, i plan on keeping it semi-bone stock. it seems like most of the ones i've seen for sale are bone stock anyways. the only thing i'd do to it is maybe use some of the low mileage take-off firehawk suspension pieces that i have sitting in my attic, and cheap/free mods.

remember, I have my firehawk for going fast, and my 88 for fixing up... so i just want something that feels nice to use as a DD.

redbird555

iTrader: (14)

As stated above 98-02 had standard 4 wheel disks. Standard gears were 3.08 with an auto or 3.23 or 3.42 optional. Manuals always got 3.23's posi was an option on all models. Also they became stand equipment mid 95.

Slvr00Bird

iTrader: (2)

This will help you with the options, packages, etc..

http://www.firebirdv6.com/

lo_jack

iTrader: (27)

I say get a stock 98+ auto v6 and call it a day. You will want a little suspension, just because you will not like the ride compared to the hawk if you don't. I forgot one other thing - the body style change over is also when the brakes went to LS1 front brakes standard instead of LT1 brakes.

JD_AMG

I know I will probably get flammed by the V6 guys, but IMO buying a V6 Fbody is like buying non-alcoholic beer, whats the point? You pay the premium car price, premium insurance price, and usually pay more at the pump than an average car but get none of the performance benefits of the V8 cars. And the V6 cars certainly don't "feel nice" especially when you are looking at the ones in the $3000 range. If you want to stick to RWD (which i can't blame you) I would look for a 240SX or something.

ghardester

I had a Bright Green Metalic '97 V-6 Firebird A-4 with the 2:73 rear end and it was a nice, pretty car. No complaints except that the gears were very slow on take off but just loped along at highway speed at low RPM.

Then I got a '01 Navy Blue Metalic V-6 Firebird A-4 with the Performance Package that had the limited slip rear with 3:42 gears. Really took off fast but was not a freeway cruzer because the gears were just too low for the freeway. Put a custom 3" exhaust on it and it sounded good but.....

Then I got the current '02 NBM Trans Am WS6. The difference in power is amazing. And my insurance went DOWN, a lot. Don't know why and didn't ask.

As for gas mileage, I see very little difference. Nothing worth getting a V-6 for again. Maybe a couple miles a gallon less. I still get about 25 mpg on the open road in the LS1.

SparkyJJO

iTrader: (11)

No premium car price here, no premium insurance here, and don't really pay more at the pump than an average car (well, if I keep my foot out of it).

BrianSearles

To the original poster, FYI the 3.8L was standard in 1996 and up, but also was an option in 1995. So, it is possible to find a 3.8 in a '95, but probably not easy.

david068513

iTrader: (2)

just get a grand am GTP. supercharged 3.8 good MPG and descently fast. good room and trunk. come in 2 and 4 doors.

Wesmanw02

iTrader: (4)

You mean Grand Prix GTP

And yes, they make good DD's, I have one for that purpose.

VF1Skullangel

Word of advice steer clear from the 3.4's and get a 3.8 if you go with a V6 car.

Does it get better gas mileage than LS1's Id say they are about the same but the only major diffrence is when you pay at the pump. back when gas was $4 it took me only 40bucks to fill up my car while all my ls1 buddys where paying much more to fill it up. Thats the only serious diffrence I see.

I also had a GTP and that car is what made me love the 3.8 engine so much, great power, reliablilty, sadly I didn't have it long enough to enjoy it.


Your absoutely right! its like Root beer vs real beer. Root beer is ******* awesome! I can't deal with true regular beer like most people can. I can tell you I did pay the premium price for my car but as far as insurance goes, gas I'm not paying for it here. Had I bought a V8 id be broke as a joke, since I bought this car I've manage to actually save some money and invest which is something I would only be dreaming about right now had I got a V8.

Having owned Fbody V8's in the past they where great cars but I love my V6 knowing that its something "Diffrent" you know everytime I go out to the car meets there's plenty of V8's out there and I'm the only V6 most of the time. There's just not a place right now in my life for a V8, the V6 seems to fit my life style like a glove.

slayer_taunu

iTrader: (3)

GTP requires 93 octane, right? i'm trying to go for a vehicle that will run on 87. car has to be able to get out of its own way, but by no means am i looking for a full blown 'performance' vehicle. if i get a GP, i'd get the NA version.

i've never even owned a non-V8 vehicle before, so i feel this is pretty bold of me to even be looking at 6cyl vehicles, never mind <gasp> non-performance vehicles

despite what the thread title is, i'm not looking at a V6 F-body as an alternative to a V8 F-body... i'm looking at the V6 F-body as an alternative to a GA/GP. I just wanted to know how the V6 F-body differs from the V8 versions so i know what to expect so i can give it fair consideration

samson_420

iTrader: (1)

The only true upside to buying a v6'er is the dirt cheap price. . . . They really are piles of crap in my opinion. . . But, piles of crap make good DD cars. . . .

You can get a 98' or so v6 Camaro or a Firebird for about 3k and push that bastard to about 200k miles with minimal maintanance. . . .

SparkyJJO

iTrader: (11)

Well basically almost everything is the same setup parts-wise in suspension and steering so all that would be familiar. The V6 does have a little softer springs in the front and a different steering rack, but overall the powertrain is the only big difference. #6 plug is similar to #8 on the LS1, a bear to get to and replace.

If you get one, 99+ has a straight throttle body vs the angled on the 98 (leftover from the 96 and 97). You can put an LS1 lid on the 99+ without too much difficulty. I believe starting in 2000 they changed the exhaust manifolds to a better tubular design that made changing plugs easier, prior to that they had the "log" design which makes plug changes harder (ask me how I know).

They all use 87, actually what I found interesting was I lose a little mpg running on anything higher. I went to get gas and the station was out of 87 but they had 89 at the same price so I got that. Car ran just fine but mpg dropped. Put 87 back in next fill up and mpg went back up. Wasn't a big difference, 1-2 mpg max, but noticeable.

Hmm... I'd sell ya my V6 if I had enough money to put towards an LS1.

C Murda

iTrader: (24)

[QUOTE=samson_420;11733982]The only true upside to buying a v6'er is the dirt cheap price. . . . QUOTE]

and the dirt cheap insurance especially when you swap it over to an LSx "SS"