Ram Air Fact Or Fiction: Part II
05-08-2004, 02:51 PM
#41
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Good argument, but shallow in scope Ah, postings just to solicit arguments. The formulae of forum sites seeding new threads in quest for acquiring new subscribers.
The article seems to consider velocity, but a ram-air intake's intention is not to scoup fast air and keep it fast. Ram air works by bottle-necking a high-pressure front caused by the vehicle/intake pushing into the air, the same as what you want from a positive-displacement supercharger, and presents a large volume of available "boosted" air. Placed well, we scoup fresh cool air, and create a wake of "static" high pressure at the intake. The engine breaths a fraction of what is available.
That science wiz never eats breakfast, and has never traveled by airplane.
The article seems to consider velocity, but a ram-air intake's intention is not to scoup fast air and keep it fast. Ram air works by bottle-necking a high-pressure front caused by the vehicle/intake pushing into the air, the same as what you want from a positive-displacement supercharger, and presents a large volume of available "boosted" air. Placed well, we scoup fresh cool air, and create a wake of "static" high pressure at the intake. The engine breaths a fraction of what is available.
That science wiz never eats breakfast, and has never traveled by airplane.
05-08-2004, 04:20 PM
#42
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An engine creates a vacuum while running, and the surrounding air is pressurized at less than 1 atmosphere. Ram air/SSRA/FTRA just makes available more air pressurized closer to 1 atmosphere.
No one in their right mind thinks it is the same as adding boost!
No one in their right mind thinks it is the same as adding boost!
05-08-2004, 06:32 PM
#43
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Will a properly designed "ram air" setup creat a supercharging effect (meaning, will it create positive pressure in the intake manifold)? NO.
Will it reduce pumping losses by reducing the intake manifold vacume (meaning, it will bring it closer to atmospheric pressure)? YES. And you'll want a converging scoop to do it.
BTW, turbulence prior to the intake manifold IS NOT the same thing as turbulence in the intake runner, intake port, or combustion chamber. It does not help the fuel/air air charge to mix (remember where the fuel is added.)
Will it reduce pumping losses by reducing the intake manifold vacume (meaning, it will bring it closer to atmospheric pressure)? YES. And you'll want a converging scoop to do it.
BTW, turbulence prior to the intake manifold IS NOT the same thing as turbulence in the intake runner, intake port, or combustion chamber. It does not help the fuel/air air charge to mix (remember where the fuel is added.)
05-08-2004, 10:40 PM
#46
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Haha, Mrs. Daisy. It's great to hear '03 Cobra owners in denial. 
Great if you've outran some modded LS1's. I've outran some modded '03 Cobras. Quit your whining.
Great if you've outran some modded LS1's. I've outran some modded '03 Cobras. Quit your whining.
05-09-2004, 10:52 AM
#47
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Originally Posted by RealDealCamSS
Haha, Mrs. Daisy. It's great to hear '03 Cobra owners in denial.
Great if you've outran some modded LS1's. I've outran some modded '03 Cobras. Quit your whining.
Great if you've outran some modded LS1's. I've outran some modded '03 Cobras. Quit your whining.
05-09-2004, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by unit213
I'm not whining. I'm asking a question. Does your car run 10's?
05-09-2004, 01:10 PM
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No, you're whining. For some reason, you can't accept the fact that an LS1 can outrun a stoutly modded '03 Cobra.
And I can't answer your question, since I don't run my car at the track. I race from a roll so that I don't destroy my transmission and rear end. I also hardly ever run my car hard. However, there are local F-bodies around with much less power than I have, that run tens. However, your reference to tens is whether or not I could outrun YOU, not necessarily modded '03 Cobras. I have never said I could outrun you - I don't know what you have. But I HAVE outran a 550rwhp '03 Cobra, so there's an indicator. I've got nothing to prove that I haven't already proved - that '03 Cobras aren't the last word in performance. Frankly, I think they're a bunch of hype. They're nice, and I wouldn't mind owning one, but they definitely AREN'T head and shoulders above the LS1's.
Lastly, I only posted my first reply in response to your worthless post about ram air not working. Even if it didn't work, you outrunning LS1's has nothing to do with it. Don't go out of your way to make condescending remarks - especially when it has nothing to do with the thread at all. I posted at first because I knew you'd start whining. It's funny how you say something, then I repeat what you say, and you get all defensive. Look man, you've outran some LS1's. That's great. Good for you. I've also taken some '03 Cobras. You're gonna have to accept that.
And I can't answer your question, since I don't run my car at the track. I race from a roll so that I don't destroy my transmission and rear end. I also hardly ever run my car hard. However, there are local F-bodies around with much less power than I have, that run tens. However, your reference to tens is whether or not I could outrun YOU, not necessarily modded '03 Cobras. I have never said I could outrun you - I don't know what you have. But I HAVE outran a 550rwhp '03 Cobra, so there's an indicator. I've got nothing to prove that I haven't already proved - that '03 Cobras aren't the last word in performance. Frankly, I think they're a bunch of hype. They're nice, and I wouldn't mind owning one, but they definitely AREN'T head and shoulders above the LS1's.
Lastly, I only posted my first reply in response to your worthless post about ram air not working. Even if it didn't work, you outrunning LS1's has nothing to do with it. Don't go out of your way to make condescending remarks - especially when it has nothing to do with the thread at all. I posted at first because I knew you'd start whining. It's funny how you say something, then I repeat what you say, and you get all defensive. Look man, you've outran some LS1's. That's great. Good for you. I've also taken some '03 Cobras. You're gonna have to accept that.
05-09-2004, 01:21 PM
#50
Administrator
Originally Posted by RealDealCamSS
No, you're whining. For some reason, you can't accept the fact that an LS1 can outrun a stoutly modded '03 Cobra.
And I can't answer your question, since I don't run my car at the track. I race from a roll so that I don't destroy my transmission and rear end. I also hardly ever run my car hard. However, there are local F-bodies around with much less power than I have, that run tens. However, your reference to tens is whether or not I could outrun YOU, not necessarily modded '03 Cobras. I have never said I could outrun you - I don't know what you have. But I HAVE outran a 550rwhp '03 Cobra, so there's an indicator. I've got nothing to prove that I haven't already proved - that '03 Cobras aren't the last word in performance. Frankly, I think they're a bunch of hype. They're nice, and I wouldn't mind owning one, but they definitely AREN'T head and shoulders above the LS1's.
Lastly, I only posted my first reply in response to your worthless post about ram air not working. Even if it didn't work, you outrunning LS1's has nothing to do with it. Don't go out of your way to make condescending remarks - especially when it has nothing to do with the thread at all. I posted at first because I knew you'd start whining. It's funny how you say something, then I repeat what you say, and you get all defensive. Look man, you've outran some LS1's. That's great. Good for you. I've also taken some '03 Cobras. You're gonna have to accept that.
And I can't answer your question, since I don't run my car at the track. I race from a roll so that I don't destroy my transmission and rear end. I also hardly ever run my car hard. However, there are local F-bodies around with much less power than I have, that run tens. However, your reference to tens is whether or not I could outrun YOU, not necessarily modded '03 Cobras. I have never said I could outrun you - I don't know what you have. But I HAVE outran a 550rwhp '03 Cobra, so there's an indicator. I've got nothing to prove that I haven't already proved - that '03 Cobras aren't the last word in performance. Frankly, I think they're a bunch of hype. They're nice, and I wouldn't mind owning one, but they definitely AREN'T head and shoulders above the LS1's.
Lastly, I only posted my first reply in response to your worthless post about ram air not working. Even if it didn't work, you outrunning LS1's has nothing to do with it. Don't go out of your way to make condescending remarks - especially when it has nothing to do with the thread at all. I posted at first because I knew you'd start whining. It's funny how you say something, then I repeat what you say, and you get all defensive. Look man, you've outran some LS1's. That's great. Good for you. I've also taken some '03 Cobras. You're gonna have to accept that.
Don't get cocky saying you beat a 550rwhp Cobra. You beat the driver, because if you can't run 10's...you didn't beat the car. End of story.
05-09-2004, 02:43 PM
#51
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Cant we all just get along..... no matter how fast your car is today, you may lose to a honda tommorrow. technology is what drives the industry today. pushrods have worked since the beginning but modular motors are the new wave technology. maybe someday GM will come up with there version but until then the modular motors have technology on there side. we on the other hand have many years of trial and error on our side, and we come closer and closer to perfection everyday. modular motors are new. With new things comes new bugs to work out. new surprises by the slightest of tweaks to the motor. GM will have there new and exciting new cars out with the newest technology available within the next couple of years, and you can kiss pushrods goodbye. they will always have a few pushrod motors in there lineup. who knows what the future will bring all I know is that I may line up to a 550 rwhp cobra or SS or T/A or Viper, etc. if I win that would be great but you never know i may pull up at that very next light to a WRX or NSX, or EVO and get it handed to me. it is all for the adrenaline rush, or the thrill you get . lets just run them all and have a good time.
05-09-2004, 03:15 PM
#52
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Originally Posted by unit213
Just so you know, I had a LS1 that ran 11.50's so you don't have to defend them.
Don't get cocky saying you beat a 550rwhp Cobra. You beat the driver, because if you can't run 10's...you didn't beat the car. End of story.
Don't get cocky saying you beat a 550rwhp Cobra. You beat the driver, because if you can't run 10's...you didn't beat the car. End of story.
But back to the '03 Cobra race, the race was from a roll. It wasn't like who won was totally dependent on the driver. We shifted twice - that's the only "driver" part to that one. I beat the car... End of story. And running at the track is all about hook-up anyways. If anything, the '03 Cobra would have the advantage from a roll.
Anyways, we're arguing about nothing. And I only posted initially because I misread your first post. Sorry about that. What it comes down to is that A. I apologize for aggrivating you in the first place, and B. I beat the '03 Cobra with pure power.
05-09-2004, 05:25 PM
#53
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Originally Posted by RealDealCamSS
Actually man, I owe you an apology. I misread your first post and thought you meant you outran LS1's in your Cobra. Sorry bout that - it was a wee bit late. BUT, outrunning them in your Z28 doesn't point toward ram air working or not, either.
But back to the '03 Cobra race, the race was from a roll. It wasn't like who won was totally dependent on the driver. We shifted twice - that's the only "driver" part to that one. I beat the car... End of story. And running at the track is all about hook-up anyways. If anything, the '03 Cobra would have the advantage from a roll.
Anyways, we're arguing about nothing. And I only posted initially because I misread your first post. Sorry about that. What it comes down to is that A. I apologize for aggrivating you in the first place, and B. I beat the '03 Cobra with pure power.
But back to the '03 Cobra race, the race was from a roll. It wasn't like who won was totally dependent on the driver. We shifted twice - that's the only "driver" part to that one. I beat the car... End of story. And running at the track is all about hook-up anyways. If anything, the '03 Cobra would have the advantage from a roll.
Anyways, we're arguing about nothing. And I only posted initially because I misread your first post. Sorry about that. What it comes down to is that A. I apologize for aggrivating you in the first place, and B. I beat the '03 Cobra with pure power.
05-09-2004, 08:46 PM
#55
Administrator
Originally Posted by cgworth
How in the hell did GM get by all these years with out the help of you experts
Your sarcasm is noted however.
05-09-2004, 10:12 PM
#56
TECH Senior Member
"Actually, they didn't. Many of us at LS1Tech.com, including myself, work in the automotive industry"
That's true. We actually have staff members that work FOR GM.
That's true. We actually have staff members that work FOR GM.
