apathy

Yeah, you're right. It's also only easier to launch AWD if you know how to launch AWD.

Ludikraut

Food for thought:
The Audi R8 that won Lemans is a RWD car, not AWD. They can swap the entire engine on that thing in minutes!
Audi's AWD was banned from IMSA GT racing in the 80's due to it being an "unfair technical advantage."
All things being equal AWD is the superior system (find some interviews with the guys that got to drive the AWD IMSA GT car, they all concurred). Yes a RWD car can be more fun to drive, but then again AWD with enough power and balance = unlimited drifting .. anytime, anywhere.

ActionJack

Welcome to the site Ludikraut

Ludikraut

Thanks ... I think that's the first time I've actually gotten a "welcome" to my first post on a forum.

Now who sez LS1 guys aren't nice?

DeepBlueZ

to add my 2 cents....the f-body is a GOOD handling car, the vette obviously is better. with the right suspension parts and good tires, they will both handle like theyre on rails, just like any other performance car would with the same mods. most performance oriented cars can be made to handle extremely well..but anyhow in stock form, the LS1s handle pretty well...the WRX and STI handle better from the factory but then again everyone is comparing a pair of turbocharged AWD 4cyl, 4 door cars to a RWD, V8 2 door MUSCLE CAR. they are not aimed at the same kind of customer. STI/EVO buyers want a high-revving corner carver that they can fit 5 people in. F-body owners want a torquey, (basically) 2 passenger V8 that handles pretty well but does its best work blasting off in a straight line....they are 2 COMPLETELY different ideas.

IMO, the f-body wins out because 1) im a straight line guy ( i dont even HAVE a front swaybar) and 2) i cant stand the dumbass wings on the STI and EVO....its all a matter of opinion....

StoleIt

iTrader: (3)

if you want an fbody go out and buy one.

if you want an sti/evo go out and buy one.

Stop insulting other people's intelligence trying to convince them what they bought was worse. You bought it because thats what YOU liked.

apathy

Thank you.

You can tow a trailer with your ls1 if you'd like. It doesn't change the fact that when it was being designed, the engineers didn't say "hmm, how can we make this car best tow a trailer?"

I'll agree with you about the wings, they look pretty silly in my opinion as well.

1BADFNZ

Probably one of the best posts in this thread

absolut_speed

iTrader: (1)

apathy,

Time to put your apathy to use. Some people refuse to believe that any import, or a car some misguided folks call "rice," could be as good as, or better than an f-body in one or more aspects. They'll never believe it, and they'll never be convinced otherwise. Some people find it hard to take their blinders off.

That said, I love my F-body, think it handles fairly well after $2000+ worth of suspension modifications, and would never trade it for an EVO or STI. However, I know my car has limitations, and that some imports will out perform me, and that's okay. I can't have everything.

And yes, stoleit has one of the best posts in this thread.

hotcar_mama

Thats exactly why I have what I have in my car.........because I wanted it.....and I knew it would be all worth it

Ws6Transam2002M6

i want speed (1/4 mile and top end) and i want braking / handling... Have you ever started comming onto a turn real soft and start pushing it harder and harder and harder and felt the g's loading on you as you car hugs the corner, its one of the best feelings ever ... Its not that the evo is "better" in handling its that its more amatuer to drive it.
its easier to drive an evo to its max limits than an f-body however that doesnt meen the f-body is worse... also the evo came out with handling as a priorety ... the f-body really didnt.... the evo is running 19 MUTHAFUCKIN LBS OF BOOST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! STOCK!!!!!!!!!!!!
give that to your f-body and see what happens
Bottom line F-body has more potentiall.... and i think they can handle damn good especially after sinking some cash into the suspension and tires department.... as far as speed goes... 19 lbs of boost speaks for itself.
The evo is a great car but its just a factory "Tuned up car"
yes sit 10 drivers in an evo and 10 in an f-body and yea probly 10/10 evo would do better, but put 10 pro racers behind the cars, and than its a different story.
the other thing i want to add is if you are trying to Accelerate through the corner yea AWD is better. but if you hammer into a corner Real fast to the point where you have to possibly brake a little and your handling is at its limit Drive train will not matter.
I want a car that can do it all, and i want that car to be my f-body screw all of you who have told me to give up or that i can't do it or should try another car because i WILL make my Ws6 outhandle outbrake and outAccelerate some of the best cars ever built.
BTW as much as i like the above, i would NEVER do any of those in the RAIN and i dont know why anyone would racing is racing, you cant just be good at one thing or the other it has to be an all around car... but when it comes to weather conditions that's just a whole new level and i refuse to play on that field.

ChillnV

I accept that some imports ARE better than my car...in regards to performance(all of it in some cases), however if I have to look at another car w/ one of those wings I will *on that note...yeah, some call my spoiler a 'wing', well it looks like it goes w/ the car to me...unlike some other things *

ok...continue on w/ the arguing

Blakbird24

iTrader: (24)

The real problem here is that everytime I read this thread, there is a completely different argument going on. All things being equal, an LS1 can be driven to win against the STI/EVO in handling, and no one here will argue about it's straight line performance. My qualm with this whole comparison is that we are comparing maxed out factory econo sedans to cars that, in their factory form, are just the starting point for all out road warriors.

Your opinion is your opinion, if you like cars like the STI/EVO then great, i'm not going to insult your intelligence. However I will NEVER understand how you can compare the cars and say the STI or EVO are better than any of the LS1s. Just goes against everything that makes sense to me. A WS6 or SS or ZO6 is the kind of car that kids have on posters on their walls...an STI or EVO? Doubt it. That's what i'm talking about...the overall image. You can't deny the importance of image when it comes to fast cars.

And who can forget the females...you can't tell me that when you are out cruisin that you're not hoping to impress the girls. Right? Which car is going to really get attention? The STI and EVO are cars that a girl would look at and say, hey that's a neat little car! The WS6, SS or ZO6 are cars that would make a girl straight out speechless, simply based on the aura the car creates.

In fact, I know there are some females on this board...would any of you ladies be brave enough to break into our brawl here to offer some insight?

I hope I got my point across this time.

DeepBlueZ

normally id agree with you, but lately it seems like the hottest chicks are getting out of slammed hondas and stuff...annoys the s**t out of me. dont tell me its not true. have u ever read an import magazine???? there are SMOKIN hot chicks on every page....you dont find that in super chevy or GM hi tech....why? because a lot of girls are into the import "party" scene. with a lot of those cars (including the STI and EVO although they perform better than most of their company), image is everything.....what do u think is going to peak a ditzy chicks interest? chrome 19s and a stereo system or a tubular lower control arms and an LS6 intake manifold???? it takes a rare breed of girl to maintain interest in cars like ours....(btw: to all those girls who do like cars like ours....THANK YOU)

Blue2002SS

iTrader: (13)

The test was with a C5 not a Z06. But there is still no way the WRX will out handle the C5. or out accelerate it for that matter

ChillnV

maybe our cars don't need girls crawling all over them to get attention

jRaskell

iTrader: (1)

Woa. Drawing some BAD conclusions there buddy. Import mags have hot chicks laying all over their cars cause the mags pay MODELS to lay all over their cars for the pics. The Import mags do it cause it sells issues. And it sells issues cause a large portion of the Import scene is all about image, and they like the image of hot chicks laying all over their cars.

There is a much smaller portion of the GM/Domestic scene with that mentality, however. When I buy my GM or Pontiac mag, I'm buying it for the cars and articles. If I want to look at hot chicks, I don't sugar coat it, I grab my Playboys. You can slap a hot chick on a WS6 on the cover, and it's not going to get the money in my wallet without any interesting technical content.

So don't go making assumptions.

apathy

I didn't understand why we were comparing them in the first place, since they are designed for different things. Why aren't we have a discussion of interior space?

Bottom line is the f-body is designed as a drag mobile. They wanted a car that would sit your *** down in the seat. And they succeeded. I'm not saying it doesn't handle well. I'm saying that comparing that car to a rally inspired car doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Lunacy

And those posters the kids have on the wall are already changing. Why do you think they got rid of the f-body? Times change, tastes change. In many years, kids will be having a discussion of why you'd have ever wanted to buy an f-body. It's just how it goes. Car marketers are always going to try to make the most money.

I'll take the ***-in-the-seat factor over handling for right now. Love that feeling of hammering it to the floor.

apathy

That doesn't really make a lot of sense.

Does that mean that the f-body is more amateur down the line than a honda civic? Because it's easier to hit 13s with it?

Blah blah blah, how many times are we going to hear this. Why are you comparing a stock car vs a modded car? You can drop a million dollars in your f-body and turn it into a formula car. It won't change that stock for stock, the Evo is going to eat it through a real road course with a ton of different drivers.

I don't think you can compare the potential of a car that has been around since 1998 to one that has been around since 2003. But whatever pal.

The Evo is running X lbs of boost. It also isn't running an LS1 pushrodded V8. It isn't pushing 290hp at the wheels stock. What does it matter if it's making its power from a turbo or displacement? You aren't saying that's an unfair advantage are you.... (rice *cough cough*)

Didn't realize you were judging handling by pro racers. I would still be surprised, though not saying it isn't possible, that the f-body would finish ahead in times. You can't say it's a different story, because you haven't done this, and haven't a clue what the outcome would be.

I'm judging handling by me, and you, and Bob over there. We want to drive cars. We aren't pro racers.

If you drive your car off a cliff, drivetrain will also not matter. What's your point?

The situation you are talking about is a traction controlled situation. Just like launching a car from a dead stop. And the AWD helps significantly to keep your car planted on the road and pointed in the right direction.

It's your car, you can do what you want with it. And nobody is going to judge you for it.

I just know if I were shopping around and was like "Hmm, I want a car that handles really well," the f-body isn't the first place I would look. And I bet that a significant number of you would agree. But you'd have to ask them.

It is a whole new level, but just because you refuse to play there doesn't mean that other people will want to.

Rally racing is what those cars were designed based on. That's what they do.

Excal

umm KIDS in america buy import tuner more than they do GM highperformance..it's a fact. KIDS are not really impressed by numbers or real powerful engines. They want Fast and the furious and the evo was the star of the second installment in it. Supra and skylines adorn american households nowadays.
A STOCK 60s lotus would make the the Ford GT 40 seem like a boat inthe twisties, according to an owner of both. So Good luck taking a car GM designed to be a pony car in the 60s, take out a Lotus today..a C5 would have problems, modded. a f-bod won't outhandle a c5 ever also.

The F-body suspension is old and kind of inadequate..It's a PONY car, with a 1/4 mile mindset, the corvette is to handle the F-bods just to go.

the GTO is a great improvement as far as that though.
there's several classes running at Lemans, if it is RWD, don't know why they would bother Stamping QUATTRO on it. The RS4s are still quattros, and factory spec have been taken 16+ hours 175mph.
Difference is...the limit of a f-bod is reached WAYYY sooner than any AWD, specially monster chassis cars like the evo and STI. or those mega controlled audis. Drive one, then tell me the difference. It's all in engineering not opinion...Bob lutz would tell you the same.
that pro racer would reach the limits of the uneven F-body eve faster, meanwhile the EVO is designed to be raced stock BY pro race cars, in RAIN SLEET or SNOW.
umm Women are SUPERFICIAL and STUPID some times, and a honda with a bodykit is "CUTE", and the like that. They would love the vette to, because it "looks expensive". Otherwise they LOVE the import scene, sorry. a rough muscle car is not as appealing to them.
this is a usually true statement if we were talking about an s2000 or some n/a honda. But these cars sTi and evo, are built for boost and while they're no supras, they have alot of potential with just turning the **** up.
No it actually has a SUPERIOR chassis, better weight distribution, less weight suspension worlds above ect ect. let alone limited slips and ECU, the EVO IS A RACECAR...the one you see on TV racing is not exactly drastically different, i've seen the mods they allow and it's barely anything sometimes.