transamman400

iTrader: (1)

Which usually yields the most favorable power for getting up and going faster, more horsepower or more torque?

For example, let's say you have a car with 260 horsepower and 305 torque, and a car with 305 horsepower and 260 torque. Same redline. Assume that both make their peak horsepower and torque numbers at the same RPM, if it's possible that is (my physics is rusty). Which one will be faster? I would think the higher horsepower one because torque is just the ability to move and horsepower is the action of moving, correct? I had an argument with somebody about this.

Also, does this change with numbers? Say that you get low enough numbers, or high enough numbers, that eventually that the deciding factor changes (i.e.: lower power requiring more torque then horsepower to move quicker?).

One more question: Is there a point where the torque becomes just a number and not of any benefit? Like say you have one car with 1000 horsepower and 1200 torque, and one car with 1000 horsepower and 800 torque. Since there is so much torque to get it moving, and torque is only the ability of moving, isn't there little need of more if the horsepower is doing all the pulling? I know that horsepower is a function of torque, and this isn't a thread of "Which is better" but I just would like a better understanding of these two power measurements.

Sorry if my post is confusing, or that I am ignorant and am completely mixed up and off track, just thought I would pose a few questions on the matter.

zamboxl

iTrader: (1)

to answer your question consider this susuky has a rally car with 148 foot pound of torque and like 17k or 16k hp it's only a prototipe but it kick the living out of our high torque cars, and i supose you would get to the point where you just wouldn't be able to put all that torque on the ground, and extra horsepower to pull longer would be more effective.

slow

iTrader: (7)

you can't have the cars you describe. "Assume that both make their peak horsepower and torque numbers at the same RPM"

the car with more HP than torque, will almost always make the HP number higher than the max torque

and the car with more torque than HP will normally make the max torque lower than the max hp

Ryan

John95Z28

It's a complex topic, and it's not a question of "which is better" because you need both torque and horsepower to be fast. High torque gives you that quick throttle response, and the burst of acceleration when you're doing a burnout from a stoplight. But it's the high horsepower that gives you low elapsed times, and high top speeds.

In your example, I think the 305 hp car would ultimately win the 1/4 mile, although the other car would pull ahead at the beginning, but that's just a guess.

Colonel

HP is a function of TQ and RPM. HP is a measure of WORK. TQ is not. Think about it. HP = TQ x RPM / 5252

jrp

iTrader: (16)

beat me to it.

and this thread seems vaguely familar

https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...ght=max+torque

16nrollininaws6

*sigh*

ddelallata

iTrader: (2)

how's this? horsepower is how fast your car hits a brick wall, and torque is how far you take the wall with you.

transamman400

iTrader: (1)

You got me wrong. I'm using the Mustang GT as an example here. I meant that the torque peaks at the same in both cars and so does the horsepower, but the numbers are switched.

I know the formulas for HP and TQ and such, I wasn't asking that. And I said this was NOT a debate about which is better. I'll try to simplify what I meant.

Is there a point where an increase of torque doesn't benefit acceleration anymore?

Does the amount of horsepower you make affect the importance torque has on your acceleration?

Stone0fFire

what in the hell.
now i understand why jrp is a "search ****"
i dont really understand what that means,
but i know the only time i hear it is with the name "jrp"

sorry jrp!

maybe there should be more stickies?
someone consider more stickies before someone asks,
"whats better, m6 or a4?"

even though we all know its **



oh yeah, about hitting a brick wall,
isnt the former velocity,
and the latter momentum?
or the weight of the car?
how can you measure hp or tq from those incidences?
it sounds like a misdirecting example.

transamman400

iTrader: (1)

^ I'll try not to get mad at that post since you probably didn't see the one above it or something. I don't think everybody got my point at first.

DRACO911

LOL. I was wondering when someone was going to bring that up. But hey gotta talk about something.

1BADFNZ

BadAndy

Actualy torque is a measurement of work over a certain distance, hp is a measurement of power: work over a period of time.

The answer to the question is horsepower. Given the correct gearing in the differential and transmission hp will always win. However, this idea is WAYYYYYYYYY more impractical than it sounds. To make it true you have to a transmission kind of like on a lawnmower. That or one hell of a lot of gears. The susuki engine may make a ridiculous amount of power, but it is also at a ridiculous rpm. Not a problem on a dyno when gearing isn't really a signifigant factor. Theoreticaly, it could be really fast. You would either need a weird transmission or just one low drive ratio and rev the everloving **** out of it. The problem is that you need torque to initiate and continue motion, and hp to accelerate. Thats where rpm come into play.

P Mack

iTrader: (6)

He doesn't have you wrong, the math makes it impossible. I looked up the ratings on the mustang gt and it was 260 hp @ 5250 rpm and 302 tq @ 4000 rpm. Now it is not possible to just switch the numbers to a peak of 302 hp at 5250 and 260 tq @ 4000 rpm because 302 hp @ 5250 rpm is almost exactly 302 ftlb of torque. That means peak torque is not 260, but 302. The switch is not possible. Get it now?

And to answer your question, neither is better, it's just personal preference. Do you want a torquey car (ls1) or a revvy car (s2000). Given identical cars with engines that make the same average horsepower, they will get through the quarter mile at the same time.

Whitten

iTrader: (1)

You buy HP, you drive torque. Torque moves weight.

BadAndy

The phrase I liked was "Torque moves the car, horsepower sells the car."

Sure, torque moves the weight (diesel engines), but horsepower Accelerates the weight.

Clipper

HP is theory and advertising. It is a result of an equation that contains the TQ numbers. If you do not have the TQ to begin with, you cannot arive at HP numbers. It sells products and produces more revenue than forward motion. Torque is measured, like a piece of rope, you don't need any other numbers to find out how long it is, just the rope.

Colonel

"Actualy torque is a measurement of work over a certain distance,"

Incorrect.

Ok, I'm talking to whoever is reading. Not anyone in particular.

TQ in and of itself *decribes* the movement or accleleration of NOTHING. Digest that for a minute. TQ does not describe movement (work)...................ok, got it?

It's a measure of rotational force in this case. A measure of F-O-R-C-E. NOT movement, NOT action, and NOT work (these things HP describes.) Ok, here's a little example that might help to put things in place in your mind (you, the reader.)

HP = TQ x RPM / 5252

You can have 100,000,000 ft/lbs of TQ at ZERO RPM (but obviously you CAN NOT have HP at zero RPM)....but yet no work has taken place....no movement, and no acceleration. No HP has been made. Now, make it 100,000,000 ft/lbs of TQ at 1 RPM and you have 19,040 HP!!!...with just 1 RPM! Or, you could have 100,000,000 RPM with 1 ft/lb of TQ. Let's do the math....HOLY COW we have 19,040 HP again!?! Yep. Makes sense when you stop thinking of TQ and HP as two different forces. One is a force. The other is the measure of the rate of work that force performs once movement takes place.

Force = TQ
Movement = RPM
Work = HP

This subject is rehashed about once every other month so for more info (I'm tired of explaning it in great depth) use the search button.

BadAndy

rightio