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To cam or not to cam?

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Old 08-04-2018, 08:19 PM
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Default To cam or not to cam?

My car runs great with the stall, gears & dynotune but I am debating on putting in a low to midrange cam like a TSP 220R 112 LSA. The thing is I don't want headers. Without cats is too loud for me and I don't want to deal with emissions in NY as in another $2,000 header/ high flow cats that may or may not fit. I like it with the cat back and muffler.-Also, I am smart enough to know there is no way I am installing it. Will I feel 20-30 hp in drive-ability because I just cruise. Most of my trips are between 50-100 highway miles. I will step on it and go through the gears but I don't race. Between the parts, labor & re-tune I am figuring roughly $2,000. I am sure it will sound nice is it worth it? I don't expect a race car but will there be a noticeable difference? I did read posts on here that some people said don't bother but the posts were ancient.
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Old 08-04-2018, 08:34 PM
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Honestly a cam that small with an almost stock exhaust is not worth the cost and labor IMO
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Old 08-04-2018, 08:51 PM
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I appreciate the feedback. I just don't want to say what did I do.
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Old 08-04-2018, 08:57 PM
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Yep I hear you. I mean obviously its a matter of opinion, and in mine spending that much money to gain a fraction of what you could gain by doing a proper cammed setup just doesn't seem worth it.
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Old 08-05-2018, 04:48 AM
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A 224/224 580 112 at minimum and a good tune to go along with it, will really wake the car up. You don't "need" headers. Even with a restrictive exhaust, it'll still gain. I've had all sorts of ls1 combinations in different guises over the years. I once had to pass one of my previous ls1 cars through an inspection and put a stock cat back on it..... but i didn't remove the 224 XE-R camshaft that was in it, and man the car still flew.

It's all up to you, you want a quick car... or not.
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Old 08-05-2018, 07:56 AM
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Cam it, headers, and stock catback are the way to go to keep the noise in check. Put a cutout on it for when you want to be loud. Even something like the GT2-3 will really wake the car up.
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Old 08-05-2018, 05:46 PM
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It's too bad it is soo much ime and money for a guess.
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Old 08-05-2018, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Launch View Post
A 224/224 580 112 at minimum and a good tune to go along with it, will really wake the car up. You don't "need" headers. Even with a restrictive exhaust, it'll still gain. I've had all sorts of ls1 combinations in different guises over the years. I once had to pass one of my previous ls1 cars through an inspection and put a stock cat back on it..... but i didn't remove the 224 XE-R camshaft that was in it, and man the car still flew.

It's all up to you, you want a quick car... or not.
My buddy bought a 334/224 112 so I guess I can see what his does but he does have headers.
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Old 08-05-2018, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by ddnspider View Post
Cam it, headers, and stock catback are the way to go to keep the noise in check. Put a cutout on it for when you want to be loud. Even something like the GT2-3 will really wake the car up.
My question is where in the powerband would I feel the wake up and how much of a difference is the wake up.
Cutouts are not for me, they leak and don't sound good.
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Old 08-05-2018, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Carguy8888 View Post
My question is where in the powerband would I feel the wake up and how much of a difference is the wake up.
Cutouts are not for me, they leak and don't sound good.
The entire powerband if it's the right cam. The GT2-3 had a tabletop torque curve when I had it. I was 350whp and 350ftlbs with intake and exhaust. Cutouts don't leak if they're quality.
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Old 08-05-2018, 06:18 PM
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There's other things you should do before you cam it that would give you better overall performance. The car would also be prepped better for the cam if you decide to later down the road. It is not uncommon or even very difficult to get auto cars in the 11s with bolt ons.

since you are worried abput emissions do things to free up power. Lots if times that is more effective than a cam anyways. A fast intake, ewp(with tensioner delete), ati balancer, 1.8 roller rockers with ls6 valve springs will net you better acceleration than a cam. It will drive up mid range tq which is exactly what you need with that tight of a stall. All that would work better with your basically stock exhaust than a cam also.

don't over look some of the little things either. Like a bigger descreened maf, smooth bellows, sealing your hood to the air box. Even something like opening the mouth of the ls6 intake up from 74mm to be a actual 78mm opening it a pretty good difference if you want to keep a stock intake on it.
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Old 08-06-2018, 06:01 AM
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Originally Posted by ddnspider View Post
The entire powerband if it's the right cam. The GT2-3 had a tabletop torque curve when I had it. I was 350whp and 350ftlbs with intake and exhaust. Cutouts don't leak if they're quality.
That that that is about 20 more HP and torque than I have.
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Old 08-06-2018, 06:04 AM
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Originally Posted by HioSSilver View Post
There's other things you should do before you cam it that would give you better overall performance. The car would also be prepped better for the cam if you decide to later down the road. It is not uncommon or even very difficult to get auto cars in the 11s with bolt ons.

since you are worried abput emissions do things to free up power. Lots if times that is more effective than a cam anyways. A fast intake, ewp(with tensioner delete), ati balancer, 1.8 roller rockers with ls6 valve springs will net you better acceleration than a cam. It will drive up mid range tq which is exactly what you need with that tight of a stall. All that would work better with your basically stock exhaust than a cam also.

don't over look some of the little things either. Like a bigger descreened maf, smooth bellows, sealing your hood to the air box. Even something like opening the mouth of the ls6 intake up from 74mm to be a actual 78mm opening it a pretty good difference if you want to keep a stock intake on it.
Good suggestions, I do have an sop intake with that silver tube that goes below. I would do an intake tomorrow unfortunately then I need another tune just for doing that.
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Old 08-06-2018, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Carguy8888 View Post
That that that is about 20 more HP and torque than I have.
LPE claims 25-30hp. Area under the curve gains in this range can definitely be felt.
https://www.lingenfelter.com/product/L210085297.html
i just realized youre an auto. Gains below 3k are not very useful if you have a 3k stall so focus on gains from 3k to redline. You also need to take into account that 4l60e's do NOT like rpm. If you get a good sized cam like the standard 224r, it's going to push the powerband up. If you decide to do a cam and don't want to rev higher or build the 4l60e, you will want to look at the smaller Titan cams, or triple 12 cams, or possibly even truck cams that will gain area under the curve but peak close to stock. Just depends what you're willing to do.
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Old 08-06-2018, 09:25 AM
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On the side note, have you considered Forced Induction? Its more expensive definitely but you will have alot of power without the noise (unless you want the noise too)
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Old 08-06-2018, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by HioSSilver View Post
T

don't over look some of the little things either. Like a bigger descreened maf, t.
OP

don't do a larger, descreened MAF.

1. you don't need a larger MAF with your, or most, builds
2. you would need to get it re-programed if you did and it would yield little if any power gain
3. the screen is there for a reason. It "stabilizes" the air flow over the MAF wires for better, more consistent, readings
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Old 08-06-2018, 03:01 PM
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Op....listen to them. Not someone who went 10.7 with a bolt on ls6. It had a stock cam and descreened ported slp maf.
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Old 08-06-2018, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by HioSSilver View Post
Op....listen to them. Not someone who went 10.7 with a bolt on ls6. It had a stock cam and descreened ported slp maf.
Stock cam meaning, Intake LID, TB, Descreened MAF, Intake Manifold, and full exhaust ? ...Sorry no offense or anything but even with a tune thats kind of hard to believe... Any time slips? Even without the screen I can't see a car like that trapping more than high 11's on a good day....maybe mid 11's for a freak car.
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Old 08-06-2018, 05:11 PM
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It's a ls6 not a ls1. But the same stuff would apply to a ls1. It's pretty easy to get a bolt on ls1 car in the 11s.

here's a friends bolt on ls1 m6 car. It was on the stock tune other than secondary o2s, air pump and egr was turned off. It didn't even have headers. Made 340whp/360wtq


it wasn't shifting real good that day bec6he ran it out of clutch fluid somehow or it woulda went faster. Only had a 3.73 gear to. It had a ported granetelli maf.

here's my own bolt on ls6 4gen m6 car. Don't have the 10.7 run on vid but it has had a best trap of 131.


it made 417whp/395wtq at the time of that run. But some changes bumped it to 451whp/423wtq(through a 9") but i didn't get to run it like than. Descreened slp maf stock ls6 cam that came in it.

we also did a bolt on ls3 1le 5gen and a bolt on ls3 c6 for my buddy phil. Both made in the 470whp range. 5gen went [email protected] and the c6 has been a best of [email protected]

ls engines are powerful. Thinking you need a cam for good performance is not ghe right train of thought. If anything it may aggravate your situation.

nothing freak about any of these cars. Just paying attention to what it takes to make them accelerate.
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Old 08-06-2018, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by ****** View Post
OP

don't do a larger, descreened MAF.

1. you don't need a larger MAF with your, or most, builds
2. you would need to get it re-programed if you did and it would yield little if any power gain
3. the screen is there for a reason. It "stabilizes" the air flow over the MAF wires for better, more consistent, readings
Very accurate post and I outlined it in my sticky in sig. When you remove the maf you skew the maf transfer function, and typically end up running leaner, so a tune is usually a good idea. But you can gain a couple hp on a max effort setup.

​​​​​​​
Originally Posted by Need4Camaro View Post
Stock cam meaning, Intake LID, TB, Descreened MAF, Intake Manifold, and full exhaust ? ...Sorry no offense or anything but even with a tune thats kind of hard to believe... Any time slips? Even without the screen I can't see a car like that trapping more than high 11's on a good day....maybe mid 11's for a freak car.
He's very modest and doesnt like to brag about mods like a faceplated trans with 5.5 inch clutch, crank scraper, roller rockers, FAST intake with ram air etc . Also says it cut a 1.2 sixty foot on that pass as well. Apparently no one should ever cam a car....
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