RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

I bought my '74 Cutlass with the intent of making it a 3-season daily driver. I did this for the first summer, driving it several times per week, but mostly this was road testing to work the bugs out and fine tuning the repairs as I went. I love driving the car, it's extremely comfortable and more fun than something modern (to me), and I've gotten it to the point of being pretty reliable, but the car is just a bit too nice to take this sort of constant risk with it. I should have bought a lesser condition car, something that I wouldn't be as worried about. So what I ended up with instead was just another weekend toy to add into my rotation.

I don't really feel like it's reclined, but it does put your legs pretty much straight out. This is not uncomfortable for me though, but maybe that's body-type/personal preference dependent.

I was the primary caregiver for my grandmother back when I still had the '02 Z28 as my daily driver. Funny thing is, she was ~90 years old at that time, and somehow it was easier for her to get in and out of my Camaro vs. pretty much any other car. Her knees had been replaced (though one was starting to bother her again), but her original hips were fine. Granted, she was only about 4'10" though...I wonder if that had something to do with it?

Even my current 2010 daily driver doesn't have any of those gadgets. I don't really see a personal need for any of that, and would rather stick to the simplicity of a 4th gen or other cars from that era if given the choice. I would agree that my '70s cars are lacking in the braking/handling/defensive maneuvering department vs. the modern stuff, especially as it applies to the battlefield of commuting, but I don't feel that a 4th gen F-body really leaves anything on the table in that regard. I guess if one has become used to relying on all those modern features, then it might be a bit daunting to jump back into a 20-25 year old car.

If I could still buy a brand new 4th gen today, with all factory-fresh parts and a full warranty but same general level of technology as the original, I would pick that over any other new car currently offered. I've driven many current new/newish cars, and nothing feels as "right" to me as my 4th gens have. Only advantage, at least that matters to me, of the newer cars is the stock performance (when speaking of something like a 6th gen V8 car, etc.), so I guess what I would really like to see would be a "brand new" 4th gen with a factory-fitted LS3. That would be about the best possible blend of all applicable categories that I could imagine for myself and my preferences - and I would certainly pick that over any of the current generation of performance/muscle cars.

JC316

iTrader: (1)

Pretty much the same problem as me. I love the car, it drives amazing, and gets tons of attention. I was on an open two lane blacktop, visibility for at least a mile, I was stopped and waiting for traffic to clear so I could turn left, blinker on. Traffic clears, I look in my mirror and all I see is Ford Fusion grill FLYING up my rear, I dump the clutch and move into the oncoming lane, right as this fusion is sliding into the ditch. I threw my hands up in the classic "WHAT THE **** ARE YOU DOING?!?!?" pose and the guy won't even make eye contact with me. If didn't check my mirror before turning, he would have slammed into me at 30+mph. That was the one that really spooked me, the rest would have been fender benders, which probably would have caused me to have a stroke from the anger.

RevGTO

iTrader: (12)

I daily drove 64-72 Pontiac LeMans, GTOs, and a Grand Prix for 9 years or so mainly in the 90's. it was the brakes that finally made me give them up as dailies. One final near miss rear-ending a guy did it. Like you, I still cruise my GTO's on a regular basis, but only in conditions where I'm likely to have plenty of room around me. I'm no big fan of hi-tech in today's cars, but anti-lock brakes do get my ringing endorsement.

JC316

iTrader: (1)

The front disc/rear drum setup on the GS isn't too bad, the rear will try to come around if you stomp on them, but I haven't had my issue with stopping power. My 69 Lesabre convertible on the other hand....downright spooky, it's like having air in the lines, right up to where they lock up. I'm seriously about to convert to manual brakes and call it a day.

RevGTO

iTrader: (12)

I've discussed this on other threads on here, but the primary failing of that disc/drum set up is premature rear lockup. There were in-line proportioning valves marketed back in the day to solve it, but i never got that far into it.

JC316

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, I had a dude pull out of a parking lot without seeing me. Slammed on the brakes and almost did a 180. I want to replace the rear axle eventually and I will switch to 4 wheel disc.

RevGTO

iTrader: (12)

I've seen those conversion kits advertised and I've wondered how well they work. I could consider doing that on my automatic GTO as it is semi-modified anyway. But like anyone else, I wouldn't want to spend the big bucks on a kit like that only to find out it doesn't make much of a difference.

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

Height might play a role. My mom is 90, ~5'3" and has had both knees replaced. She fairly recently ~ 6 months ago drove my 02 Z28 out of necessity. She hates everything about the 02 Z28, but most especially getting in and out of it.

My wife is also 5'3", one knee replaced and one due next year. Likewise same issues getting in & out.

​​​Myself, 6' both knee caps are bad plus arthritis & one knee surgery. No issues getting in but have to perfectly line up exit (no twisting) or have knee pain.

Have you actually driven one of the newer cars or trucks with the technology for a few months consistently to form an objective evaluation of the "gadgets"?

With nearly a million miles driven in C3's, 3rd Gen's, 4th Gen's and 1st Gen Tundra, I had or felt no desire for rhe technology. No AC in the 72 vette or 91 RS so I'm on the hardcore side of what's needed not spoiled by comfort etc.

Anyway, my wife had knee surgery and I had to drive her around in her Cadillac XT5 with all the technology for several months to physical therapy & doctor appointments etc. Maybe 1,500 miles worth of driving total. The technology won me me over that it has a place and is beneficial.

​Sadly, the 4th Gen's and other older cars leave a lot on the table because part of safety is accident avoidance and the new technology can help with the accident avoidance. Likewise, the additional airbags in the newer vehicles tend to provide additional safety.

That's probably one of the most condescending things I've seen you write in a long time.

Other than the LS/LT engines the 4th Gen's were pretty much half assed re-skins of a 3rd Gen which showed its age in 1992. 4th Gen's do have their charms for sure but they were lacking in areas. Add quality materials for a better interior and a new chassis & suspension (or at least a factory watts link) plus LS3, I'd buy a new 4th Gen again.

[/QUOTE]I've driven many current new/newish cars, and nothing feels as "right" to me as my 4th gens have. Only advantage, at least that matters to me, of the newer cars is the stock performance (when speaking of something like a 6th gen V8 car, etc.), so I guess what I would really like to see would be a "brand new" 4th gen with a factory-fitted LS3. That would be about the best possible blend of all applicable categories that I could imagine for myself and my preferences - and I would certainly pick that over any of the current generation of performance/muscle cars.[/QUOTE]

There's a roughness & simplicity in the 4th Gen & C5 Corvette and older cars that's endearing and fun to drive for sure. That's why there's still a 72 vette, 91 RS LS swapped, a 99T/A w/416 & 02 Z28 still in my garage. However, my fondness for the older cars doesn't cloud my perception of the newer cars & trucks. They have many good points too and some are worthy of considering.

Eventually, the 91 RS & 02 Z28 etc may get a back up camera 📷 😅

RevGTO

iTrader: (12)

You're not going to miss what you've never had. For example, back in the 80's living in San Diego, my wife suggested we have a remote control garage door opener installed. My response was, "C'mon, is it really that hard to get out of your car and open the garage door?" I'd never had a a garage remote and so I didn't see the need for it. Of course now it would seem ludicrous to be without it. I'd never had it and thus didn't see the need for it.

Same thing with cars. Over the past 5 decades I've driven 70's BMW's, 60's Pontiacs, 4th gen Formulas and G8's. The G8 was technologically behind the times when it was introduced; I knew enough to be aware of that but I didn't care because I wouldn't miss what I'd never had.

But to your point, there is a lot out there that can bring 4th gens closer to the modern world - LED lighting, rear cameras with modern HU's. bluetooth, etc. But sophisticated traction control, yaw control, and electronically adjustable suspension settings will never be in the mix, not to mention lane tracking and accident avoidance. I keep considering doing the rear camera and upgrading the HU, but as for most of the rest of it, I don't miss it because I've never had it

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

The problem with gadgets is that they break, and they are often not easily serviceable, and when they fail they can cause functionality issues with more necessary features - to the point where you can't just ignore the failure. I guess that's not a problem if you don't plan to keep the car for decades, and I'm sure the OEMs would prefer that you don't.

Condescending? Where did I imply superiority?

I drove a small car as a daily driver for a period of time, then one day I jumped into a '70 Cadillac and had to drive it home for a friend. Years before, I had daily driven cars of this magnitude for a very long time, it was no big deal, but after not having done so for quite some time it was a bit daunting at first to drive a car that big after having spent 10s of thousands of miles in a Cavalier. I had to be actively aware of the epic size of this vehicle, it was no longer second nature because I hadn't done it in so long. A similar thing happens to me when I spend all winter driving my 2010 & 2012 daily drivers around and then jump back into my '71 for the first time in ~6 months - all of its "rawness" seems amplified, like, "has it always been like this?", but then I get used to it again. My point was simply that you get used to what you do every day so, in this case, when you're no longer used to "old" cars as daily drivers then the lack of those gadgets and technology might seem daunting - at least at first.

Y2K_Frenzy

Everyone is trying to compare old vs new as if they were both new and the only differences are the tech packages. The biggest drawback to driving an old car is always having to fix something.

Treburkulosis

This!

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

I agree; it's the age-related wear (and reliability concerns therein) that makes me a bit leery of an "old" car for true daily driving. And with that, I still stand behind my statement here:

I couldn't care less about the newest technology packages, there is nothing I need or want in that regard which can't be found in a 4th gen F-body. But there is something to be said for the reliability of factory fresh parts, and that's the only draw to something newer in my case. Unfortunately, with all that extra technology also comes the extra nightmare of dealing with such when those parts are no longer "factory fresh" - and that's where I value simplicity (especially when it's a "toy" that I plan to keep for decades).

lees02WS6

iTrader: (5)

I prefer the simplicity of "older" cars, to a point. Touch screens and all that I'll pass on, but I do like fuel injection, disc brakes, modern link suspension, rack and pinion steering, and the general higher reliability of newer approaches. I can recall a time when changing water pumps was a fairly common occurrence, as an example, for dear old dad in the earlier 80s. Modern components, by that I mean the last 30 years or so, seem to be much more consistently built. Anecdotal sure, but it seem that way to me. All I ever do with my 18 year old VW is change the oil, and it runs and runs.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

This is exactly what I was getting at regarding a 4th gen F-body; in terms of a daily driver it has all the "modern" stuff that I do want without having hyper-tech that I don't want (touch screens, etc.)

I love my '70s cars as toys, and not just the styling but also the primitive simplicity/rawness of them which is why I'm not into pro-touring, but I can certainly appreciate many of the advancements that a 4th gen has to offer when it comes to daily usage in all conditions/roles. I just don't have any need or desire for the tech overload and gadget craziness of the current newest vehicles - I'd be happier with a factory fresh 4th gen if that was still an option.

Y2K_Frenzy

Until your A/C goes out and the only compressor option left on the market is a Four Seasons brand. If you’re lucky.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

LOL. I see what you did there...I've been following that AC thread.

01CamaroSSTx

iTrader: (3)

As with my original starter the A/C compressor and dryer are also the original. I replaced the o-rings on the entire system and installed a new orifice tube before vacuum and recharge.

Y2K_Frenzy

Mine is all original too. I think it’s even still on the original R134a. But it’s only a matter of time before that Four Seasons is in our lives. Nothing last forever.

Y2K_Frenzy