CAI info - 1/4mile, 60ft times, hp gain?
#41
Originally Posted by 300bhp/ton
150-200mph will be enough to promote a 'mild supercharing effect' on some setups. Such as the Bristol Fighter.
Not sure what cars you mean. Porshce 911 and the Renault A310 are the only rear engined cars I can think of. Neither have scoops on the roof.
Many mid engined cars do have side mounted scoups (including the Porsche 911). Now these can be mistaken for many things.
1. They could be and are regular air ducts for radiator cooling
2. Brake cooling ducts
3. A regular duct for an air intake
1. They could be and are regular air ducts for radiator cooling
2. Brake cooling ducts
3. A regular duct for an air intake
If you think about it, most cars have a duct or scoop that draws air. It's commonly know as a radiator grill. However behind that grill you may also find a oil cooler, transmission cool, intercooler, and an air intake.
In other instances, these side scoops will often be slightly lower or indented from the bodywork, often with a long track leading to it. Although not exactly they are a form of NACA duct, where they scavenge low pressure air from within the boundary layer. The reason is they allow an intake duct to be present while resulting in minimum drag.
See the side scoop on this Ferrari F360, it is preceeded buy a long depression, thus the scoop does not protrude into the air flow. Most 'exoctics' use similar methods
See the side scoop on this Ferrari F360, it is preceeded buy a long depression, thus the scoop does not protrude into the air flow. Most 'exoctics' use similar methods
#43
Originally Posted by luvmeZ28
ive seen some stock cars with just LTs and ORY put down some pretty interesting times. thats all i can really say about that.
#44
Originally Posted by saclay
They are not worth it. You will gain very little for what you are paying for it. I personally did not gain anything from my SSRA, but others have gained the most of .05 tenth in the 1/4. I have one for sale if anybody wants one thoa.
#45
Originally Posted by mark306ci
but if performance was your goal then why do you still have Flowmasters on your car? and what did those Flowmasters cost for that negative horsepower effect?
Those flowmaster were free. It came on the car when I got it. I left them on the car cause after I go down the track and turn a 12 second time slip people ask me what have I done to the car and I tell them FRA, Lid, and flowmaster muffler only, not knowing I have an electric cutout bypassing the muffler. So people are like damn I thought flowmasters were terrible and I'm like I must have the right combination for my car. But like I said the SSRA or FTRA is not worth the money. I have had both on my car and showed no improvement over the FRA mod. With the FRA mod I did pick up almost a tenth in the 1/4, but by adding the SSRA I showed no improvement.
#46
Originally Posted by mark306ci
it depends on what you mean by mild. mild can be .5 psi, 1psi, or one tenth psi. i don't want to oversell this overpriced $200 pieces of plastic and suggest some kind of mild supercharing effect. all i'm suggesting is that it is getting more air that's cooler in and there is a benefit.
Originally Posted by mark306ci
the Diablo and that new Murcia(something) has scoops (either on the roof or on the sides at roof height). even my old $1500 1987 Toyota MR2 had a ramair that scooped from the right side (behind the passenger door)...routing between the trunk and rear bumper.....and then feeding air into the air meter sitting inside the rear left trunk area (behind driver door). and this car only made an advertised 112 hp at the crank. but the 85-86 MR2s didn't have this ram air. why did Toyota go through all of this effort? btw, they didn't advertise about this ram air neither.
2. The scoops are there for reason's I have already described. In addition, styling shoudl also be considered. Not every thing on every car is there for a function reason. Such as the non functional blocked off bonnet scoop on the 99-04 Mustangs, or the non functional shaker scoop on the 73-79 Trans Am's.
3. Toyota didn't advertise Ram Air, because it was NOT RAM AIR. Go back and read what Ram Air is. It is not just a Scoop. You can not force air into an engine just by turning the intake duct into the wind.
Originally Posted by mark306ci
don't most of them have radiators in the front? my MR2 did.
Originally Posted by mark306ci
well isn't this the point of the SSRA, which now hooks up a tunnel contraption that's doing what the designed grill was doing, but is more tighter sealing and precise? why do many exotic cars have brake cooling ducts as you've pointed out? because it cools them better due to more air being directed there...same goes with the SSRA directing more air into the intake.
You can not cool air intake temperature the same way, as it is impossible to cool the air below ambiant temperature. If you did actually succeed to compress the air thus increasing the pressure it would also raise the temperture of the air, hence blower cars use an intercooler to try and bring the air back down to ambiant after it's been compressed.
Originally Posted by mark306ci
well i never refered to this F360 in my comment about the ROOF HEIGHT scoops....because there AREN'T any on this F360...maybe because it'll break every time the oldguy owner puts his top down. so i don't think i was confusing the difference between a ROOF LEVEL air scoop and one that is at the same level as the TIRES.
Originally Posted by mark306ci
did you know that Vietnam was the second largest producer of rice in the world? and that the dictator of N. Korea sends a private jet to Japan just to buy fresh sushi? any other random facts? :p
All that I quoted is from reliable sources, it is ALL PROVEN FACTS. If you personally disagress please find information/data/evidence to back up the claim.
#47
Unless I just read something wrong, whoever said the ram air t/a's are crap are wrong. Common sense would tell you this. *When sealed* there is no way that it could be worse than the other cold air induction's. It is picking the air up straight from the outside. It doesn't have to go by the radiator (which is hot) and it is a straight shot unlike the cai you are talking about. I don't believe in "ram air" though. Just the lower intake temps. Again if I read this wrong just tell me and I will apologize. Either way this is what I believe about ram air and cai systems.
#48
Originally Posted by mark306ci
but the point was, you included FRA, lid and filter (along with SSRA) as a waste and piddly. do you know of anyone who've only had LT's but no Lid, filter and FRA...and cut .4-.5 off of their ETs as you've suggested?
and yes, i do know someone who hasnt purchased a lid or a filter, but has LTs, and i think a catted Y, that dropped .4 or .5 off his stock runs. there are other variables in that, but they dont include any other mods. take that as you will.
its good to open up the air intake, but you can go overboard. take someone that purchases a lid,filter,bellow,maf, and SSRA. that person spent $500-$600 and they arent going to see(IMO) a gain over what just the lid and filters would have been. i feel that the others are dressup items. if you are so worried about the air intake, take all the money you waste on that stuff, and just buy a ported TB, lid and filter. thats money better spent.
#49
Originally Posted by 300bhp/ton
mild would mean, noticeable but NOT overwhelming. I don't have figures to hand but .6psi sounds familiar.
1. The Lambo's are ALL mid engined not rear engined.
2. The scoops are there for reason's I have already described. In addition, styling shoudl also be considered.
Not every thing on every car is there for a function reason. Such as the non functional blocked off bonnet scoop on the 99-04 Mustangs, or the non functional shaker scoop on the 73-79 Trans Am's.
3. Toyota didn't advertise Ram Air, because it was NOT RAM AIR. Go back and read what Ram Air is. It is not just a Scoop. You can not force air into an engine just by turning the intake duct into the wind.
Yes, many do. But those scoops will be there as a simple air intake and air circulation, not to try and ram anything.
Brake cooling ducts are designed to circulate the air, promoting heat transfer and cooling. In much the same idea as heat sinks or cooling fins (like an air cooled engine has).
You can not cool air intake temperature the same way, as it is impossible to cool the air below ambiant temperature. If you did actually succeed to compress the air thus increasing the pressure it would also raise the temperture of the air, hence blower cars use an intercooler to try and bring the air back down to ambiant after it's been compressed.
This was an example of a scoop type, not location. You said side scoops, and it is in fact a side scoop. But the basic prinicples of how it works can be applied anywhere on the car - roof, bonnet, sides.
If you want a serious discussion keep it sensible, if you have to resort to this level then it is quite clear that it is beyond you and evidently you can find nothing to contrey the information I supplied to you.
All that I quoted is from reliable sources, it is ALL PROVEN FACTS. If you personally disagress please find information/data/evidence to back up the claim.
thanks for proving my point. ram air does work.
#50
Originally Posted by luvmeZ28
the lid and filter are fine mods. not the greatest, but good. and maybe the FRA is too, maybe. but adding the "ram air" of the SSRA, FTRA, or SLP CAI i believe is a waste. i dont believe there will be a "noticeable" gain over the lid and filter, at least not $200 noticeable.
and yes, i do know someone who hasnt purchased a lid or a filter, but has LTs, and i think a catted Y, that dropped .4 or .5 off his stock runs. there are other variables in that, but they dont include any other mods. take that as you will.
its good to open up the air intake, but you can go overboard. take someone that purchases a lid,filter,bellow,maf, and SSRA. that person spent $500-$600 and they arent going to see(IMO) a gain over what just the lid and filters would have been. i feel that the others are dressup items. if you are so worried about the air intake, take all the money you waste on that stuff, and just buy a ported TB, lid and filter. thats money better spent.
#51
Originally Posted by mark306ci
well you don't even have one to be able talk about it.
lol, i'm pretty sure you're lying. unless you thinkg that 20 rwhp can cut .5 secs off.
nice try with the slipping of the $40 bellow and $150 maf in there to inflate the total to $500-600. lol.
Last edited by luvmeZ28; 09-24-2005 at 04:45 AM.
#53
Originally Posted by luvmeZ28
and i wont ever waste that kind of money on a mod that isnt worth it.
there may have been other factors involved, like i already said, but we definitely saw it. i dont need to/care to lie about anything, especially as pointless as this.
oh, and 20rwhp is the lowball end of the spectrum anyway. ive personally seen cars get alot more than that on the dyno.
so tell me, how many more RWHP are you suggesting that you've witnessed from LT's? what exactly is "alot more" than 20 RWHP.
numbers please.
why not slip those in? i was talking about someone going overboard and wasting money, and they are pointless mods too. but every little bit helps right?
#54
Originally Posted by mark306ci
yet you still spent money on a lid and filter which gains about the same or less.
since you've continuously stayed on this thread with almost immediate response ....and especially when i almost completely forgot about it for the past 2 weeks or so...thus my not responding until last night...i'd have to say that you really CARE a lot about this and enough to lie about knowng someone who would go through all that trouble putting on LT's but not bothering to swap the stock lid and filter with aftermarket ones.
days is immediate huh? if youd like i will ask the guy why he only did exhaust if its really that important to you.
there we go again with your personally unicorn eyewitness accounts.
so tell me, how many more RWHP are you suggesting that you've witnessed from LT's? what exactly is "alot more" than 20 RWHP.
well guess you've been caught trying to inflate the numbers. and now you're trying to laugh it off, lol. dude, you're ability to remain consistent with your arguments is diminishing by....well, probably since the beginning, haha.
anywho, this is my last post in this thread, and im terribly sorry that i hurt your feelings.
in closing, CAI NOT WORTH THE MONEY!
#55
To the believers of underhood cold air induction, I can't believe nobody even posted a link to the install university article. Shame on you guys, because you could have saved your time and the nonbelievers' time. This should shut everybody up. Click on the link below, click on Tech Articles, and find the FTRA link. This is as technical as it can get.
http://www.installuniversity.com/ins...sity/index.htm
http://www.installuniversity.com/ins...sity/index.htm
#56
when i got my FTRA installed i noticed a pretty big difference in the WOT, I also had a lid installed with it too, because thats what they suggested and it makes sense, however this mod also made my car run lean-basically it was too much air for the MAF to read and it wasn't compensating it with the right amount of fuel. So i had the MAF recalibrated and wow! it woke the car up a great deal, so basically, yes this mod is worth it if you take the time to make it work for you.
#57
Originally Posted by damon_Z
To the believers of underhood cold air induction, I can't believe nobody even posted a link to the install university article. Shame on you guys, because you could have saved your time and the nonbelievers' time. This should shut everybody up. Click on the link below, click on Tech Articles, and find the FTRA link. This is as technical as it can get.
http://www.installuniversity.com/ins...sity/index.htm
http://www.installuniversity.com/ins...sity/index.htm
They performed two tests on the FTRA. First, they used Autotap and four runs--2 runs without the FTRA and 2 runs with the FTRA. They took the average numbers logged for both types of runs and discovered that the average intake temperature dropped by 11 degrees Farenheit and the Average Volumetric Efficiency (%) increased by 0.9%.
The second test consisted of the following (quoted from their article):
After many passes down the track testing out our kit, we sit down and averaged out the results. Our local track is an 1/8th mile track so we miss out on a full run down the quarter mile but we still showed nearly a tenth and one half mph (see Table 3). A one half mph gain in speed results in a nice 5 rear wheel horse power increase in the 1/8th. This should be greater for those running the quarter mile because the VE would increase even more as you achieve much higher speeds.
The only thing more important then being the fastest you can be at the drag strip, is getting an increase in gas mileage from a part that helps you go faster. After a day of driving on the interstate we ran the numbers on our gas receipts to see how much of an improvement would be had from the FTRA kit. With the FTRA kit blocked off and not in use we average 26.5 mpg. When the block off plate was removed and the front of the air box sealed off, we hit 28.1 mpg for a 5.7% increase in fuel economy. This alone will pay for the kit within 3,000 miles of driving with gas prices as high as they are these days.
#58
Originally Posted by damon_Z
the average intake temperature dropped by 11 degrees Farenheit.
(FYI, the SSRA2, or the SSRA without the scoop, is only $129 without the shipping charge of $12 from Al Austin, aka SS1le02, and is made out of plastic--eliminating any issues with heat soak.)