RedZoutlaw

The air coming up in front of the radiator, which is where the FRA mod gets the air from, is cool, not hot.

solocus

iTrader: (8)

I have to agree with RedZoutlaw that the air is comming from infront of the radiator. Sure there will be some minor heat transfer from the radiator and ac condenser but it has got to be minimal.

Think about all the cars with open element air filters under the hood, they must be dieing from heat soak. Heck, a black SS sucking some (albiet minimium) air through the scoop must super heat the air and heat soak the manifold.

I'm doubtfull that !FRA makes much of an improvement, and is it worth cleaning or changing filters more often, who knows, but I do belive the heat sink argument is BS for the most part. I may be wrong but I just don't see where all the extra (EXTRA) heat is comming from. Could someone explain this to me so it makes sense?

Mike

RedZoutlaw

You're not wrong. Sometime when you get done driving, go under the front end where the air comes up in front of the radiator. You'll feel the radaitor is cool if not cold even when its hot out and the car has been running a while.
Check it out.

black00TA

iTrader: (3)

prior to FRA i would observe 70-80 deg intake temps. and sometimes 90 at a stand still.

after the mod i would see as high as 120deg at a stand still.
while moving(30mph+) the temps were around the same area as without the FRA.
this was all observed with my own eyes on the SAME day, with my laptop using Autotap right next to me on my passanger seat.

-maybe this will help you understand where the heat comes from.
inlet air and the high pressure area infront of the condensor are seperated by a plastic shrouding which keeps these areas seperate from the temperature differences.
while at operating temperature the condensor and radiator are hot enough to burn your hands upon touching.
meaning the hot air never makes its way into your intake(heat rises)
the system was designed for air to flow THROUGH the condensor and radiator because be it may the air going through there is cooler than both.

if you remove the peice seperating these areas your mixing the temps in both areas. but obviously its going to get much hotter before it gets much cooler.

the top of your condensor(so hot you could fry an egg on it) sits literaly inchs away from your filter.

so if the system was designed for air to flow through the condensor and readitor as its only choice of direction in that area. then you open up the top and plug a highpower vaccum a.k.a your intake system to the top. what do you think is going to happen.

my .02

i cant deny what i see with my own eyes

tcossair

iTrader: (2)

Convinces me not to do it now. :-)

blacksnake

I'm going to be a little sarcastic here, but I think you guys are missing some basic science.

It's not that complicated.

The radiator gets hot. Radiators are like that sometimes, you know. Air flows past the hot radiator and gets, um, how can I put this.... hot. If you don't think that heat transfer occurs, think about how a home with radiant heat gets warm in the winter. Air flowing past hot radiators or baseboards! Anyway, with FRA, this hot air now flows upward, as hot air does, and gets sucked DIRECTLY into your lid. Without FRA, or with a good CAI, this air is blocked from going directly into the lid.

Ask the 04' GTO guys if heatsoak is just some "myth". If you used your car primarily for road racing or ORR, than heat soak from FRA probably wouldn't be an issue. For drag racing, street racing, or other stop and go activities, than heat soak becomes something to think about.

The point is, the FRA mod is a compromise. More air, but also more heat

Camaro_Z28

I cut out the front of the box and blocked most of the air coming through the radiator inlet, therefore most of the air is coming through the bumper and up and over the front grille support, thus being much cooler than the air coming though the condensor and radiator. Also heres a thought. To reduce temps dont run your a/c while you want max gains from this mod, if your a/s isnt on, the condensor is not hot.

300bhp/ton

This is all about understanding what the mod acheives. First off it is NOT Ram Air as it doesn't ram anything, but neither is it really a CAI either.

However it does make sense to do it for under certain circumstances.

First off take a look the standard air box and see how small the opening is along the front. I'm not sure how much air it flows but compared to the surface area of the filter it is substantially less.

Also there is no direct air flow to the front of the air box.

If you remove the air box you can see the rad, now air for cooling the rad does not come from the front of the car but underneith it.

If you look under the nose of the car you should see a vertical plastic spoiler sticking down, this is an air dam which creates a higher pressure area of air and channels it up towards the radiator.

Now the FRA taps into this air source as well as opening up the air box to allow for more flow.

However at idle while the car is stationary it requires little air and the air flow is not moving hence you may see some heat soak. Having ducting like the FTRA will help draw air from further away from the engine compartment which means less heat soak.

Once moving the FRA will work and help to offer cooler air and creater air flow. However I would expect to see little or no gain on a rolling road dyno because of course the car isn't moving and the air dam will not function as intended.

I would expect slightly better throttle response and improved breathing at speed. When I performed the FRA mod on my car it was quite a noticable improvement at speeds of 120mph and even more so at 140mph.

For a drag racer at the 1/4 mile I don't think it will really show any real benefits, for a road course racer and street use (roll racing) then IMO it does help.

silverTA2002

iTrader: (1)

Anyone with dyno evidence one way or the other?

Ok, so it can make the air hotter.

Ok, so it can free up a restrictive intake a little.

Ok, so FTRA and SSRA are better.

But, does it make more power than a stock setup?

99Hawk262

iTrader: (19)

This issue will always be beat around. There are people who claim more heat, there are people who claim more power. There are many who did this on day one and 70K miles later have no issues. I did it....I may not if I had it to do over again, but the point is it probably won't hurt anything for a very long time if ever. And it does most likely allow more air in. It's a toss-up....you choose.

300bhp/ton

Check my post above.

I honestly believe that dyno testing will be inclusive in this instance as you CAN NOT truly simulate the correct conditions on a rolling road.

KOS

i did the same thing...........sounds the most logical

black00TA

iTrader: (3)

your right, but dyno numbers WILL read lower due to lofting hot air.
MUCH higher IAT while stationary.


on another note, the FTRA being a metal peice, will not reflect heat very well while at the track(staging lanes) or on the dyno. which may only negate its ACTUAL performance increases only noticed otherwise.

TwistedSS

iTrader: (3)

Just do it...Yes your IAT temps are going to go up, but its great until you can afford the FTRA or another type. No need for this mod on Ram-Air cars like WS6's or SS's

LANDONZ

iTrader: (23)

I did the FRA mod and noticed a little difference, not much worth having a dirty K&N every 3 weeks and hot air coming in..I noticed my IAT temps driving everyday were about 88-90 degrees, I bought a SLP CAI package and the results were amazing..I noticed 20 degree cooler air coming in at all times..Now my IAT says 71-75 all the time..The faster you go the cooler the air..I agree with the guy above, I would do this mod until you have some kind of Cold air kit. I did that and a TB bypass...just my .02

senicalj4579

iTrader: (41)

This is very true; I also have the ssra and it does not heat sink and it also angles away from the heat source. And at the same time takes in cooler air from the front of the car. Combine these while doing 65 mph and you have some extra ponies

HeapaShifter

iTrader: (2)

I said it's worth it.

I think it helps at higher speeds, but won't show anything on a dyno. If more air is entering the engine, you're going to get more power.

The condensor and radiator are mentioned as putting the hot air on the filter and raising the IAT temp up to 120 degrees. But what if the condensor is no longer there? I think the temperatures would be a good deal cooler then and even more air would be going into the intake.

I've never monitored my IAT temperature before. Tomorrow I'm going to monitor my IAT at idle (at engine operating temperature) and while driving with a Tech 2. I don't think I'll see 120 degrees. My car has the FRA, a lid, and no condensor.

marcdez

iTrader: (2)

Just my 2 cents if you put a peice of paper in front of the radiator while the fan is on the paper sticks to it right so there is no hot air in front of the radiator since cool air is being pulled in not pushed out so the hot air going up in to the air filter is minimal if and again I quote if the fan is on if the fan is off then yeah there could be an issue with some hot air going in to the air filter. But the fan is usually on so It would say it would be minimal. I liked the mod and have a ram air hood and air box and still have the bottom cut out. That is just my opinion though.

98charlize

its one of those mods that will do more as you do more to your car. as for the higher intake temp. bypass the coolant that goes through you tb and that will help a little more.

Abe99

iTrader: (2)

I have the SLP cold air intake, and I do have to clean the K & N filter more often.