DarthQuaider

I have a '01 SS with the 3.23s, slp lid, long tubes, or-y, hooker catback, a tune, and on Falken Ziex 275/45-17s I ran a best of 13.34@105mph with a 2.0 60'. Six out of eight passes I ran 13.5@106, one run I put it to the floor on takeoff just to see what would happen and I spun thru 2nd, got out of it and then rolled back into it and got a 14.1. My other runs I stalled to 1500rpm and rolled the throttle to the floor around 30-40mph so they wouldn't break loose too bad. Hope that helps, but a stall will do you no good without traction, traction will do you no good without a 12-bolt.

TXZ28LS1

iTrader: (5)

so should i keep my 2.73 or bump up to 3.42? i do plan on getting a 3200 stall.

300bhp/ton

Depends on what you:

a) want from the car
b) use the car for?

I love the ability to shoot up to 150mph, which really won't be possible with 3.42's not unless you up the shift points and limiters. But the 4l60e doesn't like high revs so expect to have to pay for a rebuild or for a built tranny fairly soon.

If you're not really worried about going much above 100mph then 3.73's would probably be a better bet.

But in reality, a stall will make a bigger difference than gears. And there are plenty of chaps running 2.73's with a stall and running as good times as those with 3.73's. So I'd be tempted to stick with what you have to begin with and see how you get on.

Also if you pay out for a gear swap and then blow your 10 bolt up, it means it was a waste of money. It might be worth waiting until you upgrade to a 12 bolt/9" Ford.

Personally I'd probably look at a 3600rpm stall, driveability shouldn't be massivily different, but it will give you better performance and will match up better if you ever get a cam.

darrensls1

I wouldn't consider it dramatically different. 142 is all ready faster then any sane human being should be driving anyway. Like I said, if the race isn't over by 142 then god help you.

Look at my sig. I actually have 3.23 gears. So let me tell you the real deal about the dead spots. 0-30 is a beautiful place to start from. 31-40 sucks. 41-49 is a step in the right direction. 50-70 is another beautiful place to start from. It's not hard to only race from a dig, low speed roll or highway speed. In fact, it's quite easy.

Two words for you. Torque Converter. Bye bye dead spot

Absolutely NOT. Many people who are traction limited love to start races from a 10-30 mph roll. I have read many street kill stories that start in that range.

That only occurs over 70 mph. Ask me how I know. And anyone that wants to start a race at over 70 mph is just a little bit crazy. So at the end of the day the only real bad spot for 3.23's that actually matters is say 31-45. Below and above that are just fine. And a 3500 stall is all anyone needs to fix that problem and then some.

3.42's are generally considered a waste of time in an auto. Most people will tell you to go straight to 3.73's so I'm not really sure why you are bringing this up. We are supposed to be debating 3.23's vs 2.73's.

They become even more ideal when you raise shift points to 6700-7000 which many of the LS1's with bigger cams tend to do.

You don't need gears to get rid of the dead spot. You just need the right converter which EVERY auto LS1 should get anyway. Plus it's very well known that 2.73's make bigger stalls feel looser then they do in cars with 3.23's. This fact along the 142 mph third gear pull, 0-30 sweet spot and the 50-70 sweet spot is why I consider 3.23's > 2.73's while in the bolt on phase.

Drag racing applications usually benifit from 3.73's. I myself want to get a 9" with 3.55's inside

darrensls1

Keep them. If and when the 10 bolt breaks you can get a free gear upgrade (so to speak) if you upgrade to a 12 bolt or 9". The converter will make way more of a dramatic difference then gears would anyway.

Just don't forget the tranny cooler and get TM deleted.

02NHRAtransAm

iTrader: (17)

Yea TM is a bitch

darrensls1

Not any more it isn't

300bhp/ton

Yeah but remove the SPEED limiter and 2.73's will se over 160mph in 3rd. Now that's a BIG diff. Fair do it may not b what you want, but everyone is different. I want the ability to run with Ferrari's and Porsche's and not run out of gears/revs.

wow you sound really butt hurt. Maybe don't take it so personal.

And if it's not an issue, why do so many people always complain about it? Just read the street race forum here or over at SVTPerformance.


Yes a stall will help but it will never overcome gearing deficencies.


Yes they do, and I'm baffled as to why.

Roll racing is not really racing. A dig should ALWAYS be the preferred choice. Sometimes it's not possible, but if you can roll from 10mph why the hell did they not pull to a stop first.


Lots of races occur at many different speeds. It's not every race that stages at optimal speeds. When tht jerk in the Civic cuts you up at 70mph do you floor it or slow down and hope to get out of the dead spot?

Again it's all personal choice.


[QUOTE=darrensls1]
3.42's are generally considered a waste of time in an auto. /quote]
Again that would be arguable. And it depends what you use the car for - if this is too hard for you to understand then I'm at a loss.

Since when has most people ever been right for EVERYONE ********!!!!

Yes many do, but not everyone is happy too and not every cam is suitable too.


If that's your view why are you getting so up tight because I said I prefer 2.73's for high speed and roll racing.

6 of one half a dozen of the other.

Some of the races I've had 142mph would NOT be good enough. And if you are at the bolt on stage then why the **** waste money on gears instead of more sensible mods.

Again it depends, 4.10's or even 4.56's may be the best for 'x' setup but then again 3.08 or 3.90 may work better.

Intent and use of the car combined with setup will affect which gears work best.

There is no one single best final drive ratio!

darrensls1

The law is pretty clear that 160+ is not an acceptable speed on public roads

And in that case then why not just get rid of the auto and go M6? Problem solved assuming you don't end up dead or in jail.

Not at all. I just call it as I see it.

It's not an issue once you put the right stall in the car

A stall does more then just help. The right stall with the right shift extension does more for the car then gears alone ever could.

I agree with you here. I only race at NYIRP so I only race from a dig. I also believe that street racing (which includes) roll racing is a waste of time and a bad idea.

But I can also say from personal experience that if I go WOT from a dead stop on the street I go sideways. If I go WOT from 10 mph I will spin some but not to the point that I'm not moving forward. And unless it's a real cold day I can dead hook at 25-30 while still being in my sweet spot. So I could understand why guys with less then 400 rwhp and especially on street tires would want to start a race from 10-20 mph vs a dead stop.

The best personal choice you could make is to not endanger your life or anyone elses with a very risky and illegal high speed race on a public street. The next best personal choice you could make if you like to high speed roll race is to dump the auto and get an M6.

You may very well be at a loss I merely pointed out that when most people want to switch thier stock gears (2.73's or 3.23's) the number one most popular answer is 3.73's is the best choice. It's obviously not going to be the best choice for every setup but as a general rule of thumb they work pretty good for most.

Now lets not reduce ourselves to personal attacks. Lets try to keep the replies mature and on topic.

"most do" and "most are". Of course every setup has to be evaluated as to what stall, what gears and what shift point best suits the intended use. But we can still use "general rules of thumb" as guidlines.

Why are you getting so up tight that I prefer 3.23's as an overall gear? We simply disagree on which gear is better and thus a debate has started.

I never said anyone should waste money on gears. In fact I made it quite clear that I believe gears should only be purchased as part of a new rearend and that a converter was a far better way to spend mod money.

I agree with that. For drag racing applications you have to factor in things like cam specs, tire size and which transmission you're using (4L60E, TH400, ect). But for a street car that has a stock motor you can still resort to the old rule of thumb of 4.10's in a M6 and 3.73's for an A4.

Absolutely true. But there was a reason that they called the 3.23's a performance upgrade to the 2.73's and not the other way around

300bhp/ton

Yeah but the speed limit here is 70mph and not too long back was 55mph in the US. It never stopped anyone then.

Plus I plan to go to Germany on the Autobarns where section have no speed limit.

In a way, except I have an AUTO and it costs far too many £££££ to change to a M6, even more so when parts are not readily available here. Plus finding a M6 Fbody is like looking for hens teeth.

Gearing still has an affect. But the right stall can cover it up very well. But again it depends on use and intent.


Dig racing is great, but the roads in the UK don't permit it very often and the nearest drag strip is a long way off and expensive.

So roll racing is the most likely scenario. One thing roll racing does show, is which car is actually quicker as it removes nearly all of the driver involvment. From a dig a slower car being well driven can often easily beat a badly driven faster car. This is unlikely from a roll.

The debate for street racing should not be part of this thread. But if you seriously expect me to believe you have never open the taps on the street (by your self or when others are near by) then your bonkers.

I mean if you are so against driving quick on the street why have a fast street car? You should buy your self a 1.2 litre Honda and a track only slingshot dragster, best of both worlds then.

As already stated this is not applicable. And besides if you are caught by surprise on the street an auto will react much quicker than a manual. Not every race has time to stage. In fact 98% of street racing in the UK is cat and mouse style and there will be no lining up and waiting to go.

They can be, but they are very very very general. So much so as the fact they are pretty useless.

If you go for a turbo or PD blower, or maybe even a long stroke large displacement n/a motor you will want taller gears (numerically lower). If you go high revving h/c or centrifugal blower then shorter gears (numerically higher) will be a better bet.

This is why you rarely see Termintors running 4.10's where as all the centrifugal GT's will be (or 3.73).

Again I still think it depends.

It may be an "old rule" but it is very narrow minded and flawed.


Yes because from a dig it will be faster, and theoretically better in gear accelaration. However I do believe that from certain speeds a stock 2.73 geared LS1 will beat a stock 3.23 geared car from a roll. And if you did race on a 2 mile runway (not public road) from 0-150mph the 2.73 geared car would most likely win, providing both cars are stock.

darrensls1

It's not 70mph by me. Most highways out here are 55 with some being 65. But that's beside the point. Street racing is against the law period.

That's fine. But just because you could doesn't necassarily mean you should. Driving at speeds in excess of 142 mph is extremly dangerous. Sometimes you need to stop and think about the people that would get hurt if you killed yourself so needlessly.

Nothing wrong with that. I'm happy with what I have and never wanted a M6. I enjoy taking advantage of a stalled auto at the drag strip

Big stalls are awesome. Whatever the use and intent is a 3400-4000 stall is just what the doctor ordered. Without an aftermarket stall the feeling/effect of gears on performance is a lot more noticeable then it is when you have a stall. I can't stress enough how a stall/tranny cooler should be the the third mod any auto LS1 gets.

1). Lid
2). Catback/cutout
3). Stall with tranny cooler
4). Crow bar to pry the smile off your face

That sucks. But you have to keep in mind that most of the people you are giving advice too are in the united states where drag strips are usually not too far away, usually not too expensive and penalties for getting caught street racing are usually severe.

I agree with you on all of that. That's one reason a lot of people liked the 10-20 mph roll race. It removes the hassle of launching/traction but still allows you to race the cars from first gear.

I must be bonkers because I don't know what opening the taps on the street is

I personally chose an F-body because I have loved Trans Ams since I was a kid. Back then it was the Smokey and the Bandit car. By the time I had the means to get one the LS1 version made a lot more sense. Since I like to drag race the F-body made a good choice. Auto, SRA, RWD, ect.

Well then that sucks too. Most people here do the three honk thing so you can get a semi fair roll race. But I agree with what you said yesterday. Real races are from a dig.

Not at all. They are very useful to most people. Why? Because very very very very few LS1's get blowers, stroker motors, turbos, ect. Most stay stock cubes and never get beyond bolt-ons or basic heads/cam setups. The extreme expense of the bigger mods is the main reason. It can cost $20,000 or more USD to build a car like you're describing. That's out of most peoples mod budget.

This debate all started about you saying that 2.73's were way better then 3.23's in a LS1. How the heck Mustangs, 4.10's and 3.73's fit into that is a mystery to me. Lets get this back on topic.

Nothing could be further from the truth. Remember that most cars actually stay with just bolt ons and maybe a cam. That means most cars can and do benifit from the basic rule of thumb. 3.73's for an A4 and 4.10's for an M6.

You might be right and you might be wrong. If the 3.23 gear car builds enough of a lead in the 0-142 (where is has the advantage) then it shifts into 4th (ouch for the 4L60E). The shift slows you a bit but if the lead was sufficient you can still drive another 8 mph and win that race. Or if the lead wasn't enough then you might lose that race. Either way the regular person spends way more time under 142 MPH then over. And a torque converter completely extinguishes any dead spot advantage you may have previously had.

But here are my problems. There is no road here in Rochester, NY USA that I can drive 0-150 legally. There is no cop here in Rochester, NY USA that will not throw my *** in jail if he catches me trying to hit 150 mph. There is no words of comfort that will console my wife and three children if I were to kill myself driving 150 mph. And there is no words of comfort that would console me if I were to kill someone else because I had to drive 150 mph.

It's just not worth it. And for 99% of the people out there 3.23's are a slightly better gear, 150 mph is not an option and tracks are viable alternatives. If you fit in that 1% that has to roll race, has to drive over 142 mph and has to do it on public streets then I just hope your life insurance is paid up and may god be with you.

TXZ28LS1

iTrader: (5)

my car is a daily driver street car. its never gonna see the track at all. its used for going to work and back.. and every once in a while, street race. so should i keep my 2.73 and get a stall, or go with both? i heard 3.42 are the best all around gear. i want something that pulls hard like a ****.

300bhp/ton

get a stall first ~3600rpm.

I personally think gears will cost more than they are worth if you already have the stall. This will allow you to spend the money on other mods until you decide to upgrade the rear or go for a wild cam which requires minimal of 3.42 gears.

TXZ28LS1

iTrader: (5)

im leaning with mti x1 cam. 230/227. i think that cam would need atleast a 3.42 gear.

darrensls1

That cam definately needs a stall more then it needs gears. As long as you are running a 3400-4000 stall you'll be fine. Since you never go to the track I wouldn't worry about the rear end. Get the stall and tranny cooler first and then see how you like the streetability with the cam.

If the cars acceleration seems too loose for your taste then I would consider either 3.42's or 3.73's to tighten things up a bit. Otherwise just keep the 2.73's and enjoy the better gas mileage.

Good luck.

black00TA

iTrader: (3)

most consider this stall a tad big for a 2.73 car,
a 4000 stalled car with a 3.42 gear seems a good mix and will have hardly any dead spots.

TXZ28LS1

iTrader: (5)

so are you guys saying 2.73 are better than the other gears for roll racing? i can see where it makes sense cuz at higher speeds!!

darrensls1

Yes and no.

If you want to race 50-150 then yes. If you want to race 30-130 then no. But no matter what the M6's have a clear advantage at any speed other then a stop

TXZ28LS1

iTrader: (5)

so the 3.42 would be overall better than the 2.73? damn..this is an actually interesting thread. cuz alot of people say the 2.73 blow... but i do get damn good gas mileage with the 2.73, and they do pull pretty hard.

darrensls1

Sure they pull pretty hard. It's still a decent gear for an auto. There are two reasons most people say the 2.73's suck.

1). Because they offer the least performance in quarter mile drag racing which is the number one form of racing F-bodies like to do.

2). Because they tend to make bigger stalls feel even looser which causes a lot of people to dislike them.

But on the other side of the coin you get better MPG and can hold third gear till 160+. I think overall a 3500 stall + 3.42's make a real sweet combonation. But if your not into drag racing the 2.73's are a pretty nice gear to have.