ChocoTaco369

this is just my opinion, but i wouldn't want to buy a supercharged f-body. if someone supercharged it, that means they likely rode it pretty hard or possibly even straight up beat the crap out of it as a track car. you don't know what they did for maintenance, how good the tune is, if they upgraded the driveline and drivetrain with the added power they're putting down...you may be walking into someone else's nightmare. if you want a blown f-body, i suggest undertaking the project on your own. that way, you know exactly what's gone on every step of the way and you know you're doing it right. i'd only buy a blown f-body if i knew the guy or had a very detailed history of the car and ALL the supporting mods (tranny, rear end, fuel system, driveshaft, etc) were upgraded with it.

wldesyWS6

iTrader: (2)

+1 for ALL that, damn right

Marky Mark

Well off the bat, I'm not going to be purchasing a M6, I'll be going the route of getting an A4. So if I was to S/C my SS it would highly recommened for new to upgrade the rear end, suspension, fuel injectors, and the transmission? So just running the D-1SC right off the get go on the stock SS itself could link me to damage to the car itself? Because I thought that some S/C kits were built to be put on the vehicle, dyno, tune, and your ready to run?

orangeapeel

iTrader: (18)

You will only break your rear end if you are dumping the clutch or leaving hard off the converter. I have run my z28 with the 250 shot on the fly and the 10 bolt did not break. All 12 or so times I have done it. a 12 bolt is a mandatory upgrade for racing, but for daily driving and spirited on ramps and highway runs...it is not a necessity.

Run the D1!!! Just keep the boost at a manageable level (5-6psi) until you get the car into the comfort zone for more power. If I recall I think that you can crank the D1SC up to 30#'s. IS that a good plan? Maybe not, but if you eventually have a 4 link suspension and back halfed car...sure! You would get over 1200 rwhp at that high of a level, and the procharger would still be at around 90% capacity. So you only limit yourself on how much power you are making only by the supporting mods and safety equipment you choose to run.

The 4l60e is not the worlds strongest tranny by any means! I run a 4l60 non-electric manual valve body and it is a hard hitter. Full internals and hardend shafts. It can take a railing for sure. I would suggest a TH-400 if you are serious....only if you are. This also brings to the table, converters. Make sure that you factor in the money for a stall. They are not tthe cheapest things in the world, but will make a huge difference in power...and sad to say, your more frequent business to the gas station. But, it seems as though you are concerned with gas mileage, so maybe none of this is for you.

Just a thought. You can really only have one or the other. Good gas mileage or great performance! Sure with endless money, you could probably work in a way with a 6 speed transmission to have awesome mileage, but you might want to ask yourself if this is something you are wanting to do?

Marky Mark

Yeah I remember in getting responses to get a shift kit, and a stall converter. The thing is that I just can't drive a M6, I just can't stick it. Well gas efficiency isn't really a problem, since I work, and I get some gas money to drive my nephew to school, and back. Not much but still some. (Yeah its my last few months in high school, but I'm already enrolling into a art center for courses on advancing in automotive design, and I might try to get into UTI for auto shop, but they don't have a chevy program...so I having second thoughts.) Plus the reason why I'm going to run 91 octane is because I know ill have enough money from my paychecks to put on gas.

ChocoTaco369

a few things. the 4L60E is a very strong transmission in stock form. stock transmissions on stock cars are known to go well over the 100,000 mile mark, sometimes over 150,000 on V8 LS1's. on V6's, they're known to go over 200,000 miles. the 4L60E is such a strong transmission that it can be put into nearly every stock car out there and be able to survive behind it. car, truck, import or domestic, a stock 4L60E can easily hold 300rwhp @ 6,000 rpm's for 100,000+ miles. that's impressive IMO. however, everything has its breaking point. people on this site bash the 4L60E because they put a heads and cam package on their car, raise their shift points 1,000 rpm's and throw down 100 rwhp over stock, then bitch that their tranny breaks? no ****?! who woulda thought!

now, on a P1SC, assuming Bob's 140 rwhp number is correct, and i assume it is because bob knows his stuff, that means you'll be throwing down ~430 rwhp from just the supercharger! port your throttle body, get lid, a catback and a cold air kit such as the FTRA and you'll surely be putting down over 450 rwhp. now, the STOCK 4L60E's biggest enemy is high rpm power. a stock 4L60E, IMO, will be better at holding 450rwhp at 4,000 rpm's than it will be able to hold 400 rwhp ~ 6800 rpm's. the reason why the 4L60E doesn't like high rpm's is because it has a design flaw where the spring for the pump can't provide tranny fluid over 5500 rpm's. that means over 5500 rpm's, your tranny becomes starved for lubrication and cooling and things fail and fly apart. now, with the STOCK shift points of 6,000 rpm's for 1-2 and 2-3 and 5,900 rpm's for 3-4, the 4L60E can get away with that. however, upping your shift points to 6,800+ rpm's is a death sentence. you'll smoke your clutches, break your sun shell, crack your input drum, break the pump, chip the planets and all kinds of nasty things.

now, if you get your car supercharged, even with 450 rwhp, your 4L60E will be better off than a cam only car running 400 rwhp. reason being is, when you supercharge your car, you usually keep the stock shift points. KEEP YOUR SHIFT POINTS STOCK and your tranny may last a little bit. however, it's still a slow death sentence. if you truly intend to supercharge your car, you WILL need a built 4L60E and a new rear end (a 12-bolt will be fine for your application). the good news is, you can get the built tranny WITH a 3500 stall from the sponsors for only around $2,000 with a pretty good warranty. 450rwhp is definitly pushing it on a stock tranny, but on a 4L60E built by the pro's, it's not that much.

i would strongly recommend going to a sponsor in this case and not your local shop to get your 4L60E toughened up. reason is, building a 4L60E isn't easy. just replacing stock parts for better ones isn't enough. a better sun shell, GM 5 pinion planets, better clutches and all the best materials isn't cutting it. you need someone who has a lot of experience with these transmissions because feed holes need to be enlarged to promote better lubrication and cooling. you need to modify the trans a little bit, not just replace parts. from what i've heard so far, FLT and performabuilt are two of the best guys in the industry for making tough 4L60E's, so if i were you, i'd go with one of them and you should be just dandy.

sorry for the long post.

Marky Mark

FLT and Performabuilt toughen up 4L60E, like how much would it cost for it to with stand over 500 RWHP? And also get the 12 bolt rear end? Because I'm planning on builting my car to run pretty good on the track, but tear it up on the street. I'm pretty much going to go all performance, and like no cosmestics on my SS. For the exception of some nice rims, and tires.

408 z28

iTrader: (1)

you can always cruise up here to kc and come visit the procharger guys...i love having them right down the street

Marky Mark

I wish I could have a LS1 Shop right here my house, or somewhere kinda close. But oh well, beggars can't be choosers...I'm really starting to look forward to going to EPP very soon. From all the good news I hear, I think I'll be happy in the long run. But right now I'm very hyped about getting my SS soon. So would the D-1SC might just be my pick over the P-1SC.

EPP

iTrader: (22)

The D-1SC does not have the carb tag on it, because ATI does not offer a tune with it like they do with the P-1SC. ATI had to have it certified with the supplied tune. Since ATI does not offer the D-1SC with a tune, Ca officials don't know if it will end up with a clean tune or not. Bob

EPP

iTrader: (22)

This is not to say I haven't sold D-1SC's to Ca residents, some know who to pay off, and others may have two years before they have to get recertified. Bob

1BadAzzWS6

iTrader: (11)

+1 I'd say build the motor and supporting mods and then go with the spray instead.

ChocoTaco369

you can get a performabuilt transmission with a 3500 stall for ~$2100 rated to ~700 rwhp. the comparable FLT transmission costs something liek $200 - $300, but the FLT comes fully assembled. i BELIEVE with the performabuilt trans, you need to take the bell housing off your old transmission and put it on the new one where the FLT trans comes with one already attached. with FLT you need to send back your trans as a core charge. performabuilt has no core charge. there are a few trade-offs with each and each company has their benefits in terms of each other, but both make a fine product from what i've heared.
i would get the 12-bolt. if you buy an M6, a 12-bolt is a mistake as it will probably break. however, on an A4 i would go 12-bolt as the A4 is half as rough on your rear end as the murderous M6 T56 trans. the M6's you have to get a stronger 9" rear end. so what are you thinking? why not get a 9" since it's the same price and stronger?! well, you could do that. the 9" is the stronger rear end, is the same price and is generally quieter than the 12-bolt. however, your car has to be slightly modified to fit the 9" whereas the 12-bolt is a direct bolt-on. plus, the 12-bolt is a lot lighter than a 9" and you will save weight and lose less horsepower via parasitic loss by going for the 12-bolt. in short, it'll take A LOT to break a 12-bolt in an automatic, it's a direct bolt-in and it's lighter and takes away less hp via parasitic loss. plus, if you have 3-channel ABS (meaning you DO NOT have traction control), you lose anti-lock brakes with a 9" rear. if you have traction control (TCS on firebirds, ASR on camaros), which is 4-channel ABS, the 9" KEEPS anti-lock brakes. if you intend on having some 700+rwhp, i'd advise a 9" regardless of your transmission choice, but for 400 - 500 rwhp, a 12-bolt is fine in an A4, IMO.
you will be. EPP is a great company. hundreds of positive reviews don't lie. get the P-1SC. you don't need the D-1SC. the P-1SC is legal and will put down more than enough horsepower than the D-1SC in smog-**** california. you can only run ~7psi safely on the LS1 anyway, so there's no use for the D-1SC. it's probably more efficient than the P-1SC, but all you have to do is forge your motor and you can run more boost and make up for it. with a blower cam, something like a 222/224 or something, a good set of heads and 10 psi intercooled with a forged internal LS1...let's say you'll be the fastest car in the neighborhood or damn close. 9's anyone?

Marky Mark

Well should I just go with the 9" rear end? Since I'm not planning on stopping at the 500RWHP mark. Because after the S/C I'm planning on getting the transmission toughened up, stall convert, the rear end, headers, cam, heads, and exhaust. I'm planning on making my SS in a pretty damn fast strip/street car.

And Chocotaco...for that 9 Second beast. What parts would exactly be needed for all the power? Especially on an A4 LS1?

ChocoTaco369

well, this is all just my estimation because i know as much about supercharging a car as OJ simpson knows about living a life without murdering someone, but i'll try my best.

if you are NOT planning on stopping at 500rwhp, i urge you to find a car with traction control. that way your car will have 4-channel ABS. 9" rear ends get along well with 4 channel ABS. if you choose a car without traction control (ASR in camaros, TCS in firebirds), you will lose your anti-lock brake system. this doesn't bother some people, but it's something i personally would like to keep. then again, if you have an 800rwhp car, you probably won't be driving in the snow and rain

the 9" rear end is a fine rear end. it's probably the quietest aftermarket rear end you can buy and is arguably the strongest. it should easily be able to hold whatever hosepower you throw at it unless you start hitting 4-digit levels

as for the transmission, if you plan on this being a race car and not a friendly daily driver, don't even bother with a 4L60E. a 4L60E can handle 500rwhp all day if built properly, but with the power level you'll get out of heads, a cam and a blower, we're talking the 700+rwhp level over here. i mean you can easily hit 500 rwhp on just the blower alone, so imagine what a good blower cam and a good set of heads and full bolt-ons will net you if you want your car to be streetable, i'd look at a 4L80E. for that, i'd recommend FLT. GMHTP did an article on FLT and they have built 4L80E's that hold over 1,000 rwhp. a 4L80E is a WHOLE DIFFERENT BEAST than a 4L60E. it's much stronger and built correctly, it can hold 1500+ horsepower. for your high horsepower application, get a built 4L80E from FLT and never worry about your transmission again. it's a very heavy transmission (~200 lbs), but you'll keep your overdrive and streetability, have good gear ratios for the track and have a nearly bulletproof driveline if paired with a 9" rear end and a chromoly driveshaft (do NOT forget a good driveshaft!!!)

this is what i would do if i were in your situation:

1.) ATI Procharger P-1SC from bob at EPP
2.) moser 9" rear end with a TrueTrac differential, also from bob at EPP, w/3.55 final drive gear ratio. why 3.55? (i think the moser 9" takes 3.55's) why not steeper? because with a blown setup, your boost builds at ~3,000 rpms and you don't want your gears to rpm too quickly or you miss out on all that boost.
3.) some type of 220/224 cam. with a blower, you want a cam with a longer exhaust duration than intake duration, and while a 220/224 is a rather "small" cam, you can tune them for smog **** california. unfortunately, in california, you can't go much bigger
4.) TFS heads. they outflowed AFR 205's on a test i just saw. looked pretty good to me. of course, you can't go wrong with tried-and-true AFR 205's, also.
5.) kooks 1 7/8" headers. you're going for top of the line here, may as well get the best headers on the market.
6.) 3200-3600 stall. again, you don't wanna go too big or you miss out on all that boost. make sure you go with a very strong stall with tough lockup clutches, or you'll have problems with all that power. a normal stall you see the average joe running around with on this site isn't going to cut it.
7.) 3" true duals w/dynomax bullet mufflers or flowmaster single chambers and an X-pipe. the dynomax bullet mufflers will probably give you the freest flowing and best performing exhaust out there, while the single chambers will give you the best sounding exhaust out there. take your pick. personally i like the H-pipe sound a lot better, but X-pipes seem to perform better on LS1 cars.
8.) new shocks, torque arm, 3-point subfram connectors, driveshaft loop and A-arms. your brands of choice is up to you. i know UMI performance (board sponsor) makes some of the best suspension gear out there so i'd go to them for most of the stuff.
9.) SLP lid and Fast Toy's Ram Air kit.
10.) NGK TR-6 sparkplugs w/ MSD wires.

that's what i'd do if i were in your position. again, this would be just my plan. it's your car, mod it however you want it and have a lot of fun. just note that my plan of action would probably cost in excess of $20,000. take it one day at a time, there's no rush. if you're anything like me, you'll keep your car forever best of luck to you.

EPP

iTrader: (22)

All good choices, thanks for sending him my way. Bob

Marky Mark

Also yeah I'm that type of person who keeps things forever. Especially since things are getting rather expensive now a days. But I'll be taking it day by day on those performance parts since I'm going to be paying for them out of my paychecks. Also how consistent and efficient is the 4L80E over the 4L60E?

Heh, from all this good reviews, and references. I'll be going to you for alot of my LS1 performance parts.

ChocoTaco369

the 4L80E is just a heavier, stronger version of a 4L60E...in short. they'll perform very similarly. you'll just gain 50 lbs or so of dead weight from a 4L80E, not that it'll matter if you're toting 700rwhp.

it's not that it's more efficient, it's that it's twice as strong and easier to build.

Marky Mark

Ohh alright, its just build stronger to with stand the 700RWHP gain? Correct? Should I start out with the S/C or the heads and cam? Something to beat to hefty amount of cars on the street. Like what's the HP gain of heads and cam? Any recommendations on any?

ChocoTaco369

i would get the supercharger done first. reason being is:

1.) it's the biggest expense, it'll be your biggest power adder and it's nice to get that out of the way
2.) when you do heads and a cam, you should forge your internals so you'll be able to up the boost

the only problem i can see with doing the supercharger first is when you do do the heads and cam, now you have the blower in the way of things. if you decide to do the heads and cam first, make sure you forge your internals at the same time so you can run a good amount of boost from the blower.

as for the 4L80E vs. the 4L60E, 700 rwhp is pushing the limits of even the strongest built 4L60E. it's just warming up for a 4L80E. a STOCK 4L80E can hold 500 rwhp. the 4L80E is in every way superior to the 4L60E and the 4L60E, no matter what you do will NEVER have the potential of a 4L80E. reason being is the 4L60E is a medium-duty transmission made for cars and light trucks while the 4L80E was designed for heavy-duty applications, such as silverado 2500's and application where towing thousands of pounds is necessary. the 4L80E was designed to pull weight and have lots of power run through it. build it up and it'll take 1000 rwhp all day long. the 4L80E and 4L60E are two totally different beasts, and the 4L80E squashes the 60 in every category.