I love my VicJr setup....I noticed a little lost < Seat of pants dyno N/A > on the intial hit but with the 4200 stall screw lowend it but it pulls with no end insite up top.



-Chris

 

I posted this question in a different section with no responses.

Ok with the ram air setup that chrs1313 posted up results on, he said thru his testing that he was able to get positive pressure. Wouldnt that help elevate the low air speed that hinders the "elbow" setups?

I would think that with ram air,nitrous the vic jr would be the safest and definitly viable on stock cube cars. Plus for the average DD car the better distribution would be more forgiving i would think.

This is all based on what i have read so dont kill me please. And dont take anything as offensive. Simply brainstorming for knowledge sake and maybe my personal f-body.

 

Got a link to original?

 

Get one of Edelbrocks engineered elbows, not those restrictive back yard hack job elbows.

There is only a small few that still claim that fuel puddling is a non issue, or rather it does not happen. I have been collecting info for some time by many of the worlds true nitrous companies and in fact it does exist and the data proves so. It's a fact that our style intakes have puddling, or fall out issues. I challenge anyone to prove it doesn't happen, and i will back up my mouth with data from many of the worlds leading nitrous experts. I have been waiting for this for some time.

The main reason for going with an aluminum single plain is the simple fact that they can take the occasional hic-up and all whom have truly had experience with nitrous will have had one. Our plastics intakes can not take the ever expanding explosion which is often fed by the fuel that drops out.

Let the games begin.
Robert

 

chris with that elbow you have on there, does it help to increase the volume of the intake? And does that help with the hit of the N20?

 

That style elbow was developed for hood clearance on C5 models (allows hood closure on some, but did not on mine). But this was at the expense of flow. It actually cuts the volume able to be consumed by the motor. I have one and if your set on getting one you can have it for 1/2 price. The ones that flow at least exceptable will have the same volume as the opening at the TB all the way to the carb flang, but then hood cutting is needed on Vettes and cowl cutting on the F-bods. That is why i rec the Edelbrock style now, they three different heights and do some engineering tricks for the lower ones, though they still will not floe like the high hieght models.

Robert

 

Here is my personal example for everyone to think about. I had 2 LS2 camaro's, both had bone stock LS2's in them. Both were tuned on the same dyno. Car 1 363 rwhp Car 2 390rwhp. I will try to find the sheets, car1 and 2 were even until 3500 or so and the car2 then made more power. What gets me is Car2 has th400 and 9in that has to eat more power vs 4l60e and a 10bolt.
Car 1
stock ls2
ls6 intake
pacesetter heraders & y
cutout
circle d converter
10 bolt with 3:42

Car 2
stock ls2
vic jr with Nitro Dave elbow
NW 90 TB
Kooks 2 inch headers with 3in flowmasters
TH400
ford 9 with 3:90

 

Robert,
I would be interested to see any data you have to back up this statement.
The inner volume of our elbow is bigger than the 90mm throttle body. There is no flow restriction. The throttle body is the only restriction.

Dave

 

Dave,

Is the housing on a 92mm TB the same as a 90mm? I guess what im getting at is, will your intake elbow accept a 92mm TB? And also whats the difference in the design if any between your boosted elbow and you N/A elbow?

 

The difference will be in 2mm of the opening in the flange. If you have a used one that was made for a 90mm it will bolt up just fine. There would just be alittle lip. You could gring out the lip with a die grinder. If ordering new we build to suite.

There is a differemce in the thickness of the aluminum between the boosted and NA. Also the boosted is welded inside and out.
Dave

 

That's an old Vinny elbow, but i will see if I can find the data. They have been flowed, IIRC, along with Aaron's Elbows. Same thing with the Edelbrock elbows, anytime you choke the the radius down in volume you will slow the flow and when it's as long as this it becomes a restriction (Venturi effect will not apply here), but they keep the volume linear and smooth radius' so it's not as bad. Look at any race car and we will see the full turn radius style sheet metal or cast elbows as it's the proven HP maker. Seems yours is about the same, you must have flow data proving it flows as well as the wide radius style, if I read your contention correctly?

I think it becomes pretty obvious that we need to maintain the same volume the entire radius of the turn. It looks like (I don't have my car to measure) that we are trying to squeeze a free flowing 4inch by 4inch square into a 1 1/2 inch by 4inch rectangle and trying to turn it at the same time. It just will not work as well as 4x4 in the beginning and 4x4 at the radius.

Here's what I will do. I have my car currently at Turbo technology in Tacoma. it's going on the dyno and my n/a tuner Dr Phil (Roadrebel), a GM engineer will in fact be fine tuning with this elbow. I have a Edelbrock cast elbow coming and we will find out how much of a HP/TQ difference there is. Like always I will back up my input with actual data, and it's coming from a 3rd party with no dog in any fight. Good, Bad or Ugly, I will share my data as I have done in the past. Who wants to bet that the engineered elbow (I do know what was done to the Edelbrock elbow to make it work) will make more power? Now could this same engineering be adapted to the low square sheet metal intakes? Maybe? But I doubt the gains would put it in the same power producing range.
Robert

 

What do you mean its an old Vinny elbow. I dont remember Vinny ever using one of these elbows? Ofcourse Im getting old and dont remember everything these days.

Keep in mind that our elbow was built for a stock replacement part so that you would not have to cut the car. Man that had to be atleast 4 maybe 5 years agop or more.

Common since tells me that Just like with anything the easier or straiter the curve the higher faster it will flow. However on something as mild as the curve in that elbow I just simply can not see there being much of a flow difference if any. I know for a fact that the elbow will flow more than any street car application is going to throw at it.

I have had the eldelbrock elbows in on intakes we were plumbing. They have a devider down the middle of the unit. My guess is to keep seperate some of the flow with the thought process that with out it you would be over flowing the back runners compared to the front. Would you aggree? I was not real impressed with the Edelbrock when I looked at it.

On Tonys car (our shop car) we use a C&L elbow. Only reason for that is beacuse he bought that before we started building the sheet metal ones.

Wilson builds a nice elbow as well.

Ohh I almost forgot. Edelbrock has a low rise cast elbow now as well. It does not have the tall radias bend like the ones listed above. I have not seen one in person yet but damn they are cheap. If I remember correctly they sale for under a 100 dollars.

Dave

 

What about aarons elbows, has anyone tested them and our they worth buying?

 

I have seen them in person. He does a nice job. Between any of these elbows I just can not see any of these street cars hitting a wall of needed flow with any of them. Hell the airfilter and airbox is more of a flow restriction than any big passage way like that.
Dave

 

I really liked the quality of my elbow from Aaron. I went with the 4150 TB is the only reason I sold the combo. Don't expect a wet shot to flow great through the elbow though. Go with a carb plate and/or a direct port setup for the best hit.

 

Im glad you told me that i was just going to re-use my old tb plate tell i went direct port. Well then Dave i have another question for you, do you have a 2 stage carb plate?

 

^^ ya he does.... check out his website

 

here's my vic jr set up. cost right at $1000.00. perform at least as good as a FAST 90/90 for less money.

http://www.stealthram.com/vicjr.htm


edl-29086 intake w/fuel rails $420.00
edl-3847 elbow for f-bodies $115.00
edl-3867 90mm TB $294.00
total $829.00 all prices from summit racing

the FAST 90 intake is $879.00 at summit.