what is it about nitrous the makes it break stuff?
04-29-2009, 01:45 PM
#63
I stole this from another site but its a VERY GOOD read and has alot of GREAT INFO......
I know the NOS suggested jetting is larger on the fuel and that will be dead rich. Will it run? Sure. Will it hurt anything? Likely not at these low HP levels. Are you getting near what you should from the kit? Absolutely not. It has been preached for years that "rich is safe" and most guys tend to believe it, but that could not be farther from the truth. Excess fuel just beats the crap out of the rings. 99% percent of nitrous related engines failures are from too much fuel, too much timing, or both. It is EXTREMELY rare to burn a motor by getting the nitrous system too lean. Barring a mechanical malfunction or an extremely bonehead tune up change, that is nearly impossible to do.
As far as A/F numbers, for some reason, people seem to think nitrous motors need to run way richer than they do in N/A form...again, not true. As an example, if your motor makes best power N/A at around a 13:1 A/F ratio, a moderate nitrous tune (less than 250 hp) will be fine at that same 13:1 A/F ratio, provided you get the timing correct. Although I would not suggest you go straight to these numbers, I run the 632 in the drag radial car, at about 13:5.1 A/F ratio, with about 600hp worth of spray. The Pro-Mod car also runs over 13:1.1 with over 900hp worth of juice. Anything in the 9,10, or 11 range, on spray, is DEAD RICH.
Fuel color on the end of the plug, on the flat face, the last couple threads, or whatever, has nothing to do with the tune up. That is from idling, driving it back, or something similar. The mixture is read at the very base of the porcelain and if you can see a ring of color with your naked eye, you are DEAD RICH. The base of the porcelain should be a clean white and if there is color there, it should take a magnifying plug light to see it and it should be very faint. At this point, you will be somewhat close. Dark specs is usually detonation and the fact that you described your straps as a "grey color" sounds to me like you have too much lead in the motor. If the strap or end of the plug looks like it has been hot, such as this "grey color" you describe, it is generally over timed. If the gaps open after a run or the sharp edges are no longer sharp, you are over timed. Depending on the plug you run, there will be no "heat line" on the strap. If you run NGKs (and you should) and see a "heat line", you are over timed. The proper tune will deliver a plug that is scary clean on the porcelain and a strap that takes on a little of a dusty cinnamon color on the strap....
You did not ask, but one other thing, the weather does NOT change your tune up. Does not matter if it is 30 or 130 outside, it is always cold in that intake. Once you have the mixture right, the only thing you have to change for good or bad air is the timing. And "rich" is not safe. You have to do something horribly stupid to get a motor lean enough to burn it. You will slow the car down before you get it lean enough to burn a piston. An overly rich tune, on the other hand will beat pistons out of the motor in short order. 90% of "burned pistons" are caused by a rich tune.
I know the NOS suggested jetting is larger on the fuel and that will be dead rich. Will it run? Sure. Will it hurt anything? Likely not at these low HP levels. Are you getting near what you should from the kit? Absolutely not. It has been preached for years that "rich is safe" and most guys tend to believe it, but that could not be farther from the truth. Excess fuel just beats the crap out of the rings. 99% percent of nitrous related engines failures are from too much fuel, too much timing, or both. It is EXTREMELY rare to burn a motor by getting the nitrous system too lean. Barring a mechanical malfunction or an extremely bonehead tune up change, that is nearly impossible to do.
As far as A/F numbers, for some reason, people seem to think nitrous motors need to run way richer than they do in N/A form...again, not true. As an example, if your motor makes best power N/A at around a 13:1 A/F ratio, a moderate nitrous tune (less than 250 hp) will be fine at that same 13:1 A/F ratio, provided you get the timing correct. Although I would not suggest you go straight to these numbers, I run the 632 in the drag radial car, at about 13:5.1 A/F ratio, with about 600hp worth of spray. The Pro-Mod car also runs over 13:1.1 with over 900hp worth of juice. Anything in the 9,10, or 11 range, on spray, is DEAD RICH.
Fuel color on the end of the plug, on the flat face, the last couple threads, or whatever, has nothing to do with the tune up. That is from idling, driving it back, or something similar. The mixture is read at the very base of the porcelain and if you can see a ring of color with your naked eye, you are DEAD RICH. The base of the porcelain should be a clean white and if there is color there, it should take a magnifying plug light to see it and it should be very faint. At this point, you will be somewhat close. Dark specs is usually detonation and the fact that you described your straps as a "grey color" sounds to me like you have too much lead in the motor. If the strap or end of the plug looks like it has been hot, such as this "grey color" you describe, it is generally over timed. If the gaps open after a run or the sharp edges are no longer sharp, you are over timed. Depending on the plug you run, there will be no "heat line" on the strap. If you run NGKs (and you should) and see a "heat line", you are over timed. The proper tune will deliver a plug that is scary clean on the porcelain and a strap that takes on a little of a dusty cinnamon color on the strap....
You did not ask, but one other thing, the weather does NOT change your tune up. Does not matter if it is 30 or 130 outside, it is always cold in that intake. Once you have the mixture right, the only thing you have to change for good or bad air is the timing. And "rich" is not safe. You have to do something horribly stupid to get a motor lean enough to burn it. You will slow the car down before you get it lean enough to burn a piston. An overly rich tune, on the other hand will beat pistons out of the motor in short order. 90% of "burned pistons" are caused by a rich tune.
04-29-2009, 02:57 PM
#64
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I stole this from another site but its a VERY GOOD read and has alot of GREAT INFO......
I know the NOS suggested jetting is larger on the fuel and that will be dead rich. Will it run? Sure. Will it hurt anything? Likely not at these low HP levels. Are you getting near what you should from the kit? Absolutely not. It has been preached for years that "rich is safe" and most guys tend to believe it, but that could not be farther from the truth. Excess fuel just beats the crap out of the rings. 99% percent of nitrous related engines failures are from too much fuel, too much timing, or both. It is EXTREMELY rare to burn a motor by getting the nitrous system too lean. Barring a mechanical malfunction or an extremely bonehead tune up change, that is nearly impossible to do.
As far as A/F numbers, for some reason, people seem to think nitrous motors need to run way richer than they do in N/A form...again, not true. As an example, if your motor makes best power N/A at around a 13:1 A/F ratio, a moderate nitrous tune (less than 250 hp) will be fine at that same 13:1 A/F ratio, provided you get the timing correct. Although I would not suggest you go straight to these numbers, I run the 632 in the drag radial car, at about 13:5.1 A/F ratio, with about 600hp worth of spray. The Pro-Mod car also runs over 13:1.1 with over 900hp worth of juice. Anything in the 9,10, or 11 range, on spray, is DEAD RICH.
Fuel color on the end of the plug, on the flat face, the last couple threads, or whatever, has nothing to do with the tune up. That is from idling, driving it back, or something similar. The mixture is read at the very base of the porcelain and if you can see a ring of color with your naked eye, you are DEAD RICH. The base of the porcelain should be a clean white and if there is color there, it should take a magnifying plug light to see it and it should be very faint. At this point, you will be somewhat close. Dark specs is usually detonation and the fact that you described your straps as a "grey color" sounds to me like you have too much lead in the motor. If the strap or end of the plug looks like it has been hot, such as this "grey color" you describe, it is generally over timed. If the gaps open after a run or the sharp edges are no longer sharp, you are over timed. Depending on the plug you run, there will be no "heat line" on the strap. If you run NGKs (and you should) and see a "heat line", you are over timed. The proper tune will deliver a plug that is scary clean on the porcelain and a strap that takes on a little of a dusty cinnamon color on the strap....
You did not ask, but one other thing, the weather does NOT change your tune up. Does not matter if it is 30 or 130 outside, it is always cold in that intake. Once you have the mixture right, the only thing you have to change for good or bad air is the timing. And "rich" is not safe. You have to do something horribly stupid to get a motor lean enough to burn it. You will slow the car down before you get it lean enough to burn a piston. An overly rich tune, on the other hand will beat pistons out of the motor in short order. 90% of "burned pistons" are caused by a rich tune.
I know the NOS suggested jetting is larger on the fuel and that will be dead rich. Will it run? Sure. Will it hurt anything? Likely not at these low HP levels. Are you getting near what you should from the kit? Absolutely not. It has been preached for years that "rich is safe" and most guys tend to believe it, but that could not be farther from the truth. Excess fuel just beats the crap out of the rings. 99% percent of nitrous related engines failures are from too much fuel, too much timing, or both. It is EXTREMELY rare to burn a motor by getting the nitrous system too lean. Barring a mechanical malfunction or an extremely bonehead tune up change, that is nearly impossible to do.
As far as A/F numbers, for some reason, people seem to think nitrous motors need to run way richer than they do in N/A form...again, not true. As an example, if your motor makes best power N/A at around a 13:1 A/F ratio, a moderate nitrous tune (less than 250 hp) will be fine at that same 13:1 A/F ratio, provided you get the timing correct. Although I would not suggest you go straight to these numbers, I run the 632 in the drag radial car, at about 13:5.1 A/F ratio, with about 600hp worth of spray. The Pro-Mod car also runs over 13:1.1 with over 900hp worth of juice. Anything in the 9,10, or 11 range, on spray, is DEAD RICH.
Fuel color on the end of the plug, on the flat face, the last couple threads, or whatever, has nothing to do with the tune up. That is from idling, driving it back, or something similar. The mixture is read at the very base of the porcelain and if you can see a ring of color with your naked eye, you are DEAD RICH. The base of the porcelain should be a clean white and if there is color there, it should take a magnifying plug light to see it and it should be very faint. At this point, you will be somewhat close. Dark specs is usually detonation and the fact that you described your straps as a "grey color" sounds to me like you have too much lead in the motor. If the strap or end of the plug looks like it has been hot, such as this "grey color" you describe, it is generally over timed. If the gaps open after a run or the sharp edges are no longer sharp, you are over timed. Depending on the plug you run, there will be no "heat line" on the strap. If you run NGKs (and you should) and see a "heat line", you are over timed. The proper tune will deliver a plug that is scary clean on the porcelain and a strap that takes on a little of a dusty cinnamon color on the strap....
You did not ask, but one other thing, the weather does NOT change your tune up. Does not matter if it is 30 or 130 outside, it is always cold in that intake. Once you have the mixture right, the only thing you have to change for good or bad air is the timing. And "rich" is not safe. You have to do something horribly stupid to get a motor lean enough to burn it. You will slow the car down before you get it lean enough to burn a piston. An overly rich tune, on the other hand will beat pistons out of the motor in short order. 90% of "burned pistons" are caused by a rich tune.
03-24-2010, 12:10 PM
#71
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After reading this, I'm amazed how well my car ran with my previous combo and can only wonder how much better it would have run with a tune based on the information here. It had the wrong plugs, was way too rich, and had too much timing.
I need a tuner who knows this stuff!!
Can some of the experts here recommend someone that's reasonably close to NE Indiana, or someone that will travel?
I need a tuner who knows this stuff!!
Can some of the experts here recommend someone that's reasonably close to NE Indiana, or someone that will travel?
03-24-2010, 04:18 PM
#77
I to learned alot and I'm about to spray this year for the first time. I am more concerned now about getting the car tuned for the N20 than I was before. I'm not sure if I have seen any of the tuners around here check plugs durring a N20 tune. IWGF are you running N20 and if so did Sean tune your car? If he did, did he pull the plugs when he was tunning?
03-26-2010, 03:53 PM
#78
Hey brotha, I haven't installed my n2o yet, waiting for a few weeks until I get back from Iraq to order a kit and install it. Sean will be tuning it, and he did my N/A tune. He's a very proficient tuner, so we'll discuss how he's going to do it when the time comes. Is this Isaac? Or who? This is Rob, Sideswipe on TSC.
03-26-2010, 05:54 PM
#79
Hey brotha, I haven't installed my n2o yet, waiting for a few weeks until I get back from Iraq to order a kit and install it. Sean will be tuning it, and he did my N/A tune. He's a very proficient tuner, so we'll discuss how he's going to do it when the time comes. Is this Isaac? Or who? This is Rob, Sideswipe on TSC.
03-26-2010, 07:34 PM
#80
By the way, I run a 200 on a 8 plg, pullin 4* at 12:3afr and net 227hp. But thats just me.
Last edited by 3fingas; 03-26-2010 at 07:42 PM.