Nimitz87

iTrader: (17)

for both of them?

that 2nd plug looks loads better than the 1st...dunno what I was thinking but at 1:15am I thought it was more lean, maybe I posted up the wrong picture lol

Chad

ATVracr

iTrader: (5)

1st one is way off, Shiz is talking about the 2nd pic.

2nd is alot leaner.

ShiznityZ28

iTrader: (11)

I only see 1 pick(work blocks most pics) and it has a thick fuel line. way rich and 2* to much timming. my statements was for the next run. probably would still need more fuel out. Ill check the 2nd pic when i get home and tell you what i think.

ShiznityZ28

iTrader: (11)

also the pic im looking at looks like it was idled on or drove back. so if thats the case throw all that out and get a good fresh plug.

TXARKITEKT

Dang Jon--sorry to hear all of that! Poor little LS2--that thing ran badass! I have personally seen that thing run--reliably I might add--and I know this guy is definitely knowledgeable when it comes to tuning. After speaking with him and seeing what you guys (especially Steve and ATVracr) have been saying--I think the conclusion is pretty easy to understand... The tune was correct up to the point where the nitrous was used. A/F was there, timing was set safely, etc. But once the nitrous hit, even though the WB was reading safe, the design of the intake forced the nitrous into the cylinder which caused the 'ring lifting' condition--and BOOM. Now, at that EXACT point, the tune was off...partly because there is no way to isolate that exact cylinder to check A/F. It is just one of those things I guess...you gotta live and learn...and he did the hard way. I feel that there was not a way to prevent this catastrophe from happening even if he was able to make a decent WOT run and then take the plugs out to read them. I know and respect the OP with his modding and tuning ability, but I also know that Steve and ATVracr are very knowledgeable in their own right...but if there has to be a finger pointed in a general direction, it has to be on the intake.

Lets think about it--even if he was able to make a WOT run and then take the plugs out to read them, maybe #4 would have just happened to take the hit and survive. What does he do then? Adjust timing and A/F a little? Ok, so he does that and then runs it WOT again and BOOM. It was #6 this time. I just feel there is no way to pinpoint this issue. The ProFlo design is not made for a wet shot. Maybe an individual direct port on each intake runner, but not a general wet or dry shot.

DBRODS

iTrader: (1)

Talked to a few people at Edelbrock. They said that NO nitrous testing has been done with the LS Pro Flow XT intake. They said the plate system that was advertised on the intake was strictly for their electronics and it was a dry sytem installed. Basically showing that their electronics could control a N20 setup. They also strongly advised against putting a wet plate system on this intake. Basically for the same reasons that blew my motor. I have also been in contact with alot of reputable companys that design N20 systems and Intakes. All have agreed about what happened. That the Edelbrock ProFlow XT intake should NOT be used with a wet plate/or nozzle system due to its design. It would be optimal with a fogger/direct port system. I do realize that the cause of this is using the wrong parts together, NOT THE TUNE. One other thing to add is that there is not any damage to any other cylinder, just #6. ATVracer and everyone else I appreciate the input and help. I hope that this can be a helpful thread in the future to others that try and run the same setup. Please don't.

DBRODS

iTrader: (1)

Also I would like to add that the truck has atleast seen 500lbs of Nitrous through the motor in the last 3 months. Thats alot of dope for the tune to be off. Thats since I started filling my own bottles, no telling how much before that.

ATVracr

iTrader: (5)

If the tune was right it wouldnt burn up.
The tune for this intake is different than on your other intake.
You thought you could just swap intakes and spray the same tune up, well as you found out you cant.

Did you retune it on motor?
I could spray that intake with 150shot and NEVER hurt anything.

Good luck with your new set up. Maybe send your new intake and nitrous kit to a well known nitrous guy and have it flowed, they will also give you a base tune up.

DBRODS

iTrader: (1)

Don't worry the NA tune was adjusted for the new intake. We had to pull alot of fuel out below 4000rpms and add more on the top. Thats why I was saying this was the best tune it has had. On the WOT runs AF with stay really consistant. It never varied more than a few tenths during runs from 20-130mph.

ShiznityZ28

iTrader: (11)

The tune by definition includes figuring out how much nitrous goes in each hole!!!! the tune was not right!!!! If you pull plugs it will show you there are bad holes!!!! the piston he posted was not from to much nitrous it was from to much fuel and it lifted and burned off the ringland then let oil in and ate everything!

ChevyLee

iTrader: (4)

I Would like to see you spray a 150 shot on this intake. It makes sense what he is saying about it not having enough time to properly mix, it just shot into one cylinder. If you guys don't want to take someones advice then don't, test it out your self and see what happens, maybe you will figure out a way to do it, maybe you wont.


You are correct about to much fuel going.. If you read what he said in a post, all of the fuel, and nitrous from the hit didn't have enough time to mix and shot into which ever cylinder was going to fire at the time because it forced it into the cylinder hole.

I think all he is saying is there isn't enough time for everything to mix which will cause this.

ATVracr

iTrader: (5)

How much time does it need? teach me something smart guy.

I have a direct port DRY on my car, I bet his plate has alot more time to "mix" then my set up.

This should be fun ....

kinglt-1

iTrader: (26)

This is how i interpreted it aswell. It's obvious the tune was is off, but how do you get it right? Especially if the nitrous distribution varies from hole to hole and is never consistent from one run to the next...

ATVracr

iTrader: (5)

You dont go out and blast 1/4 mile hits right off the bat thats for sure.
On a new set up we make 3-400' hits then 1/8th mile hits (alot of them)
Then 1000' and if we feel really good about it maybe a few 1/4 hits.

This will take us 4-10 track days.

There is no reason for it to be different from 1 run to the next, why would it change?

Spend some money and blow some **** up , you'll get it right sooner or later.

kinglt-1

iTrader: (26)

I was just asking a question, thanks for the intelligent rsponse.

ATVracr

iTrader: (5)

Read the post ... some people already know everything.


There is no easy answer it takes years to learn how to tune a nitrous car.

kinglt-1

iTrader: (26)

A direct port setup sprays an even amount into each hole correct? You run a dp setup because a plate runs into distribution issues after xxx size of shot right? I thought in the op's case it's not about the plate having sufficient time to mix? It's that the proflow intake design is not allowing even distribution to all cylinders?

I can understand that. Fwiw Im not trying to start an argument over this by anymeans. I have followed many of your posts, and you seem quite knowledgeable about nitrous. Just trying to soak up as much info for my dry plate install this winter. I want to save money by not blowing **** up lol.

ATVracr

iTrader: (5)

Very few intakes allow equal dist. and the cyl. heads and cam shaft have alot to do with how a motor burns what you put thru it.

Your right about the DP but our motor still has cyl's that run hotter and colder than others.
The direct port just gives the ability to correct it.

If your running a plate (wet or dry) with the stock computer you only have 2 ways to change what going on in a paticular cyl. (that I know of)
1. spark plugs .... if you have a hot cyl. (#7 & 8 most times) put a step or 2 colder plug in it to help cool it off.
2. Injectors ... have your injectors flowed and label them run the highest in the back to leanest to the front. (thats how all the LS1's I have helped with run)

The more you spray the more precise you have to be.
if you are spraying more than 1 kit it gets alot more complex.

Hope that helps.
I'll say it again ... the intake is not why his motor blew up.

Ryan_Z28

Im not plug expert either but you can clearly see in this pic you were running pretty lean.

N20GMC

You can not tune off AFR. Especially when the 02 sensor is down in the pipe after the headers. It will be getting an average AFR. If you want to tune off AFR ( I dont think its the best way) you have to have a 02 in every header pipe.

Also why do you think that putting a plate on the front of an intake is gonna give perfect distribution. You are putting 1000 psi into the intake that is gonna go straight to the back on the manifold then its gonna find whatever hole is pulling thee most and go there. The only way to get good distribution is a fogger. Like everyone has already said.

And if you are trying to read plugs the engine has to be cut clean. You can not drive it or idle it.
Anytime you get oil into the chamber its going to cause detination. When it does that its gonna burn it up like it already did.