Thanks to Chris and the guys at Nitrous Outlet!
05-17-2010, 07:54 PM
#1
Thanks to Chris and the guys at Nitrous Outlet! Well, I just have to say it's been a wild ride this year after installing the NANO and Dedicated System. I thought it would be plug and play but here is what really happened:
1) First time out after the upgrades the transmission went. Replaced that with a Performabuilt Level 3.
2) On the first trip to the Dyno N/A was fine but the graph was all over the map on any attempted N20 runs. Ran low on Nitrous so called it a day. Also learned I was running projected tip plug and switched to NGK BR7ES.
3) Determined Timing Tuner is not working. Contacted Chris at Nitrous Outlet who gave us a wiring diagram. Wired up Timing Tuner and double checked all Nitrous connections and wiring.
4) Back to the Dyno a few weeks later and N/A runs lost 100 HP and Nitrous runs produce even less HP! Tuner felt it was a spring issue. We pulled the valve covers and there it was a spring broken in two places on the Drivers side with the valve being held up with only the inner spring. We swapped out the springs for Patriate Golds.
5) A week later we determined that in wiring up the Timing Tuner we left off the ground for the solinoids and that explains why less HP, pulling timing but no fuel or N20.
6) Back to the Tuner where we made 400 RWHP N/A and 570 RWHP with a 200 shot (70 N20 and 36 Fuel - pulling 7 degrees of timing). Had to really lean down the jetting as pig rich using suggested jetting (adjusted for NANO). I felt I could go on to a bigger N20 jet but determined that converter was slipping so have a new Pro Yank 3600 11" Converter on order.
Chris at Nitrous Outlet was great through all these trials and tribulations, always answered the phone and encouraged us through the whole ordeal. I have to admit with all the set-backs it would have been easy to give in to the temptation to blame the Nitrous Outlet products. I'm so glad I didn't because none of my issues had anything to do with their products which work great and they were a great help to boot!
1) First time out after the upgrades the transmission went. Replaced that with a Performabuilt Level 3.
2) On the first trip to the Dyno N/A was fine but the graph was all over the map on any attempted N20 runs. Ran low on Nitrous so called it a day. Also learned I was running projected tip plug and switched to NGK BR7ES.
3) Determined Timing Tuner is not working. Contacted Chris at Nitrous Outlet who gave us a wiring diagram. Wired up Timing Tuner and double checked all Nitrous connections and wiring.
4) Back to the Dyno a few weeks later and N/A runs lost 100 HP and Nitrous runs produce even less HP! Tuner felt it was a spring issue. We pulled the valve covers and there it was a spring broken in two places on the Drivers side with the valve being held up with only the inner spring. We swapped out the springs for Patriate Golds.
5) A week later we determined that in wiring up the Timing Tuner we left off the ground for the solinoids and that explains why less HP, pulling timing but no fuel or N20.
6) Back to the Tuner where we made 400 RWHP N/A and 570 RWHP with a 200 shot (70 N20 and 36 Fuel - pulling 7 degrees of timing). Had to really lean down the jetting as pig rich using suggested jetting (adjusted for NANO). I felt I could go on to a bigger N20 jet but determined that converter was slipping so have a new Pro Yank 3600 11" Converter on order.
Chris at Nitrous Outlet was great through all these trials and tribulations, always answered the phone and encouraged us through the whole ordeal. I have to admit with all the set-backs it would have been easy to give in to the temptation to blame the Nitrous Outlet products. I'm so glad I didn't because none of my issues had anything to do with their products which work great and they were a great help to boot!
05-17-2010, 08:45 PM
#3
Props to Brad at NANO too! TKS. I'll post some when I download the pics of the new set-up. Brad, you were great as well when I ran into some issues on my NANO set-up. You gave great customer service and also offered some suggestions as I was going through this ordeal. I have to say I love NANO.....just plug and play, no heaters and perfect N20 pressure all the way down the track. I'm still laughing at my first experience getting the NANO bottles re-filled. Firstly, there just happened to be a paint-ball supply shop near the Nitrous Filling Station and second..the cost of filling the bottle.....$1.00! I love it!
05-17-2010, 10:38 PM
#6
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Couple of questions:
1. I thought a 200 shot was a 78N jet? What was your AFR?
2. What octane and fuel pressure were you running in the dedicated?
Just curious. I plan on sticking with my 78N jet. I'm curious what fuel jet I'll end up with . I ran a 40 last spring, but I know it was @ 10.8 AFR (which I now realize is way rich). The previous owner wanted it really "safe" when he had it tuned. I was a total noob and didn't educate myself about nitrous tuning. It ran 10.20s and that was fast enough for me. Tuned right, that car would have run much faster for sure.
Also, I'm curious about how much timing I'll end up taking out running 118 in the dedicated. I've had some delays getting the car done, but it's almost ready for engine and rearend break-in.
Sorry for the hijack. Just hoping to learn a little more.
1. I thought a 200 shot was a 78N jet? What was your AFR?
2. What octane and fuel pressure were you running in the dedicated?
Just curious. I plan on sticking with my 78N jet. I'm curious what fuel jet I'll end up with . I ran a 40 last spring, but I know it was @ 10.8 AFR (which I now realize is way rich). The previous owner wanted it really "safe" when he had it tuned. I was a total noob and didn't educate myself about nitrous tuning. It ran 10.20s and that was fast enough for me. Tuned right, that car would have run much faster for sure.
Also, I'm curious about how much timing I'll end up taking out running 118 in the dedicated. I've had some delays getting the car done, but it's almost ready for engine and rearend break-in.
Sorry for the hijack. Just hoping to learn a little more.
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05-18-2010, 12:13 AM
#8
I am happy to see you have found some light at the end of the tunnel. I have had cars whoop my butt when it came to problem chasing as well. Sometimes that is part of the game. The ability to stand back and think with in reason can go far when having these type of issues. Having a company that has technical service when you need it can also make all the difference.
Thank you for the feed back and support.
Dave
Thank you for the feed back and support.
Dave
05-18-2010, 06:39 AM
#9
Jetting Question.... Couple of questions:
1. I thought a 200 shot was a 78N jet? What was your AFR?
2. What octane and fuel pressure were you running in the dedicated?
Just curious. I plan on sticking with my 78N jet. I'm curious what fuel jet I'll end up with . I ran a 40 last spring, but I know it was @ 10.8 AFR (which I now realize is way rich). The previous owner wanted it really "safe" when he had it tuned. I was a total noob and didn't educate myself about nitrous tuning. It ran 10.20s and that was fast enough for me. Tuned right, that car would have run much faster for sure.
Also, I'm curious about how much timing I'll end up taking out running 118 in the dedicated. I've had some delays getting the car done, but it's almost ready for engine and rearend break-in.
Sorry for the hijack. Just hoping to learn a little more.
1. I thought a 200 shot was a 78N jet? What was your AFR?
2. What octane and fuel pressure were you running in the dedicated?
Just curious. I plan on sticking with my 78N jet. I'm curious what fuel jet I'll end up with . I ran a 40 last spring, but I know it was @ 10.8 AFR (which I now realize is way rich). The previous owner wanted it really "safe" when he had it tuned. I was a total noob and didn't educate myself about nitrous tuning. It ran 10.20s and that was fast enough for me. Tuned right, that car would have run much faster for sure.
Also, I'm curious about how much timing I'll end up taking out running 118 in the dedicated. I've had some delays getting the car done, but it's almost ready for engine and rearend break-in.
Sorry for the hijack. Just hoping to learn a little more.
2. I was running 110 Octane in the dedicated at 56 psi.
Good Luck with your set-up!
05-18-2010, 08:43 AM
#10
TKS. I'll post some when I download the pics of the new set-up. Brad, you were great as well when I ran into some issues on my NANO set-up. You gave great customer service and also offered some suggestions as I was going through this ordeal. I have to say I love NANO.....just plug and play, no heaters and perfect N20 pressure all the way down the track. I'm still laughing at my first experience getting the NANO bottles re-filled. Firstly, there just happened to be a paint-ball supply shop near the Nitrous Filling Station and second..the cost of filling the bottle.....$1.00! I love it!
05-18-2010, 09:46 AM
#11
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What caused you to believe that the converter was slipping? The only reason I ask is because I just had somthing similar happen while spraying my car on the dyno. The actual hp line was very wavy and right at the crest of each wave the hp dropped and actually went slightly backwards.
05-18-2010, 12:06 PM
#12
Wavy lines on the Dyno...... What caused you to believe that the converter was slipping? The only reason I ask is because I just had somthing similar happen while spraying my car on the dyno. The actual hp line was very wavy and right at the crest of each wave the hp dropped and actually went slightly backwards.
The Converter slip was diagnosed by my Tuner but in talking to Yank he felt the change-up from shifting from 6600 RPM to 6300 RPM (Where Tuner states Motor stops making Power) was not allowing the existing converter to do its job properly anymore. He suggested an 11" Pro Yank 3600 vs. my existing 9" Yank 3600 (re-configured from Yank 3800).
Hope this helps.
05-21-2010, 11:41 AM
#14
I observed large oscillations in the Dyno Graphs when I had the broken valve spring. I also observed smaller wavy lines at the top end of the curve which originally were diagnosed as a number of things but turned out to be a bad ground on wiring from the car to the Dyno! It seems there are many things behind many anomolies on the Dyno.........
The Converter slip was diagnosed by my Tuner but in talking to Yank he felt the change-up from shifting from 6600 RPM to 6300 RPM (Where Tuner states Motor stops making Power) was not allowing the existing converter to do its job properly anymore. He suggested an 11" Pro Yank 3600 vs. my existing 9" Yank 3600 (re-configured from Yank 3800).
Hope this helps.
The Converter slip was diagnosed by my Tuner but in talking to Yank he felt the change-up from shifting from 6600 RPM to 6300 RPM (Where Tuner states Motor stops making Power) was not allowing the existing converter to do its job properly anymore. He suggested an 11" Pro Yank 3600 vs. my existing 9" Yank 3600 (re-configured from Yank 3800).
Hope this helps.
there is no chance your car needs an 11" convertor....
that thing will weigh like 30lbs....
06-08-2010, 05:20 AM
#16
Learned the advantages of Reading Plugs the Hard Way!.... Made one N/A run down the track last week. Result was my best N/A 60 ft time ever at 1.65 on my new 15" Weld Drag rims and ET Street Drag Radials and skinnies. Bad news is by the end of the run there was a huge smoke cloud! After pulling over on the return road observed oil pouring out the back of the motor. Let it cool down and oil pressure and temp was good so drove it 50 miles to my mechanic. He did a leak down test and pulled numbers as follows: 1-65%,3-55%,5-20%,7-65%,2-30%,4-55%,6-20%,8-40%. Motor is toast!
Just to be clear this thread is not about bashing anyone. Nitrous Outlet and NANO Direct have been great! The motor likely got hurt because last season I didn't realize the Timing Tuner was not working (due to wiring issue) and I ran a number of 150 and 200 shot runs without any timing pulled. I was also running a projected tip plug so was lucky I didn't detonate the motor! As well, to be fair, the motor was built for N/A and the Forged Mahle pistons and Moly rings were not designed for 200 shot and especially with no timing pulled! I think, based on my experience, running over a 150 shot should only be done if you are going to be really careful and read the plugs. If I would have read the plugs I would have known the timing was not getting pulled and likely saved going though this.
So it's off to the machine shop to refresh the motor, swap the Mahle Pistons for Dedicated Nitrous Pistons and rings and back to the track hitting all of that 200 shot! Hopefully by July!
Just to be clear this thread is not about bashing anyone. Nitrous Outlet and NANO Direct have been great! The motor likely got hurt because last season I didn't realize the Timing Tuner was not working (due to wiring issue) and I ran a number of 150 and 200 shot runs without any timing pulled. I was also running a projected tip plug so was lucky I didn't detonate the motor! As well, to be fair, the motor was built for N/A and the Forged Mahle pistons and Moly rings were not designed for 200 shot and especially with no timing pulled! I think, based on my experience, running over a 150 shot should only be done if you are going to be really careful and read the plugs. If I would have read the plugs I would have known the timing was not getting pulled and likely saved going though this.
So it's off to the machine shop to refresh the motor, swap the Mahle Pistons for Dedicated Nitrous Pistons and rings and back to the track hitting all of that 200 shot! Hopefully by July!
