LilJayV10

iTrader: (39)

As the topic says can you use the wideband O2 sensor to get you close to where you need to be then start reading plugs or should you just go straight to plugs?

I know reading plugs is the best way to go at which I have zero experience with and am trying to learn.

I know the bigger shot you run reading plugs become more important.

I am afraid with my lack of plug reading skills I will be so far off I won't know what to do. That's why I thought the wideband might get me close starting off.

I have read several threads from HSW and Nitro Dave about depending on the persons knowledge/experience depends on what information they give out, if that makes sense. Nitro Dave explained it better than me.

I am going to be using 100 wet shot from a plate on my engine which "should" make around 430rwhp on motor.

I have the racetronix pump w/ hot wire, Mircroedge+, Interface, FPSS and a wideband O2. I am using the BR7 spark plug. Compression is 11:1

I am going to have my tuner set up the IAT table so I can use the interface to adjust how much timing I am pulling. I am going to start at a 50-75 shot and work my way up and learn as I go.

I know each motor is different but what is a "safe" area to be at with the air/fuel mixture? I have read rich is not always safe.

There are some super smart people in here and I hope I can get pointed in the right direction.

Thanks for any input.

Jason

Chris@NitroDaves

We have had customer's do this in the past with no problems. You can start off with a wideband then move to plug reading easily.

BLK02WS6

iTrader: (2)

Sounds like you are being smart about it - you will be fine...

I would run the AFR at around 12:1... Pull plenty of timing and add it back slowly to find what it wants...

Reading plugs is not all that hard - do some searching and you'll find plenty of good info and help...

LilJayV10

iTrader: (39)

Thanks. That's what I am trying to do.

SargeZ06

Especially when a lot of people out there are just using a wide-band and lettin' her eat.

I'm doing the same way you are.

ryarbrough

iTrader: (18)

Just be aware that a wideband CAN lie.

LilJayV10

iTrader: (39)

Can you elaborate on that?

Carter01

iTrader: (11)

Wideband usually is one sensor in one bung on one side of the exhaust system. This being said the wideband gives you cumulative average of all 8 cylinders where "Plug Reading" gives you specific info per cylinder. They also are known to have large variances and lasltly when they go out there is usually no warning.

ryarbrough

iTrader: (18)

On top of what carter said, if there is a misfire, you will get a false lean reading. Remember that the sensor reads air NOT FUEL. I've seen guys keep throwing fuel at a car because the WB reads a lean AF ratio, when the problem was that it had a miss or a cyl. down.

ATVracr

iTrader: (5)

Bingo!

Also you cant see a timing mark with the wideband and you dont know if the calibration is close. We use the WB and look at plugs, when I pull a plug I can already tell within a few numbers what the WB will read on the data logger.


Probably be fine with just the WB on a small shot. Take this time on the small jets to learn what it looks like on the plug and WB when you make a change.
It will help you TONS down the road.

Gary Z

The guys who spray big nitrous shots are absolutely correct that THEY need to read plugs. This is mainly because uneven distribution becomes a bigger problem as shot size increases. And it is obviously true that a wideband can be fooled by misfires. But misfires have nothing to do with nitrous and you might want to eliminate misfires even if you don’t have a wideband. If you are new to nitrous you should start with a small shot and you should monitor oxygen/fuel with a wideband while you learn to read plugs.

LilJayV10

iTrader: (39)

ATV thank you and everyone else who has replied.

LilJayV10

iTrader: (39)

Would there be any benefit to put the W/B bung in AFTER the y pipe? So it doesn't read from just one bank?

I have it on the passenger side of the y pipe now because that was the easiest route. Should I move it so the W/B is picking up both sides?

BLK02WS6

iTrader: (2)

Better yet, put another one in the driver's side pipe and switch sides now and then (for instance when you up from 50 to 75 make a pass on one side and then a pass on the other) that way you can keep an eye on both sides...

What everyone above said is absolutely true - but judging from your original post, I think you have your head on straight and already knew all that was said... get your system working and learn on the small shots and pick up plug reading along the way. Just don't get in a rush or get greedy before your knowledge level grows...

And even before you become a good plug reader - pull some out and look at them - big problems will be evident even to the untrained eye (if you see a ground strap missing, I think you'd have a clue LOL)...

ShiznityZ28

iTrader: (11)

LOL. when wayne pulls the plug and comes to the trailor ill say looked rich and he can just about guess the range. we use both to verify each other.

LilJayV10

iTrader: (39)

Are there certain plugs you pull to check?

Also how do you get the damn things out without burning your hands off? I am assuming some sort of high temp glove.

DrkPhx

iTrader: (15)

Here is an excellent article showing how to read plugs. I recently switched to E85 and had to go 2 steps colders on the plugs after reading the plugs.

http://www.empirenet.com/pkelley2/sparkplugreading.html

LilJayV10

iTrader: (39)

Also can you tell a difference between one degree of timing? You look at the porcelain for timing right.

In that article I don't understand what "full turn in color" means when referring to the spark plug base ring.

Carter01

iTrader: (11)

Porcelain is for jetting, ground strap is for timing, full turn in color means on a fresh clean plug that if you look at the base of the plug the black soot should almost make a full turn to where you can't see any shinny aluminum. In order to read the porcelain you must cut the threads off to find the fuel ring. It's complicated to start with but it gets easier.

edit - porcelain also shows signs of detonation

BLK02WS6

iTrader: (2)

Note that the article above is wrong - ground strap tells timing, not heat range...