. Im new to the Nitrous game,but i cant wait to put it on my car
Less timing, less fuel = more power?
Less timing, less fuel = more power? Ok guys, I've been reading and learning a lot for the last month and the title seems to be true. Looks like many of the top running guys spraying healthy shots on stock bottom ends have this in common. Run a lot lower timing and dial in the fuel.
My Trailblazer SS Ls2 only likes between 23-25 degrees NA before any knock with 93 octane. That amount of timing seems to be about the same for many TBSS's, don't know if its the high load/weight or just the LS2 design. At the track it tends to pick up mph the more timing you can throw at it.
So I thought the same would be true for nitrous.....I use to put 116 octane in the stand alone and run 22-23 degrees on 150hp shot. It rarely picked up any knock so I thought it was good. After reading on here I decided to try less timing. Dropped it 18 degrees and guess what? It actually ran the same ET and had a small increase in mph of .3 mph.
I know to dial it in right I need to read the plugs (Br7's). Right now I'm around 11.0 A/F way rich..... so after I lean it out some it should pick up even more power??
Sorry for the long post. Just excited that I'm finally making some progress. Your thoughts/ opinions?
My Trailblazer SS Ls2 only likes between 23-25 degrees NA before any knock with 93 octane. That amount of timing seems to be about the same for many TBSS's, don't know if its the high load/weight or just the LS2 design. At the track it tends to pick up mph the more timing you can throw at it.
So I thought the same would be true for nitrous.....I use to put 116 octane in the stand alone and run 22-23 degrees on 150hp shot. It rarely picked up any knock so I thought it was good. After reading on here I decided to try less timing. Dropped it 18 degrees and guess what? It actually ran the same ET and had a small increase in mph of .3 mph.
I know to dial it in right I need to read the plugs (Br7's). Right now I'm around 11.0 A/F way rich..... so after I lean it out some it should pick up even more power??
Sorry for the long post. Just excited that I'm finally making some progress. Your thoughts/ opinions?
This is what I do. I leaned it out to 13 to 1 on the wideband and checked the plugs to make it was kosher in all 8 holes. But as I did so, I reduced the timing A LOT to keep detonation in check. Currently I pull 12 degrees for a 150 shot and have 111 octane in the standalone. That is twice the recommended retard for this shot.
But, I improved my ET and MPH MUCH more than running it richer with more timing.
This has worked on my stock short block LT1 for the last few years.
But, I improved my ET and MPH MUCH more than running it richer with more timing.
This has worked on my stock short block LT1 for the last few years.
5* swing in timing is HUGE !
You should NEVER use the knock sensors for anything, throw them in the trash.
11.0 is real rich, it will pick up for sure when you lean it out.
Get it around 12.5 A/F then put timing back in 1* at a time until the MPH slows down, then back it up 1-2*.
You should NEVER use the knock sensors for anything, throw them in the trash.
11.0 is real rich, it will pick up for sure when you lean it out.
Get it around 12.5 A/F then put timing back in 1* at a time until the MPH slows down, then back it up 1-2*.
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Ok guys, I've been reading and learning a lot for the last month and the title seems to be true. Looks like many of the top running guys spraying healthy shots on stock bottom ends have this in common. Run a lot lower timing and dial in the fuel.
My Trailblazer SS Ls2 only likes between 23-25 degrees NA before any knock with 93 octane. That amount of timing seems to be about the same for many TBSS's, don't know if its the high load/weight or just the LS2 design. At the track it tends to pick up mph the more timing you can throw at it.
So I thought the same would be true for nitrous.....I use to put 116 octane in the stand alone and run 22-23 degrees on 150hp shot. It rarely picked up any knock so I thought it was good. After reading on here I decided to try less timing. Dropped it 18 degrees and guess what? It actually ran the same ET and had a small increase in mph of .3 mph.
I know to dial it in right I need to read the plugs (Br7's). Right now I'm around 11.0 A/F way rich..... so after I lean it out some it should pick up even more power??
Sorry for the long post. Just excited that I'm finally making some progress. Your thoughts/ opinions?
My Trailblazer SS Ls2 only likes between 23-25 degrees NA before any knock with 93 octane. That amount of timing seems to be about the same for many TBSS's, don't know if its the high load/weight or just the LS2 design. At the track it tends to pick up mph the more timing you can throw at it.
So I thought the same would be true for nitrous.....I use to put 116 octane in the stand alone and run 22-23 degrees on 150hp shot. It rarely picked up any knock so I thought it was good. After reading on here I decided to try less timing. Dropped it 18 degrees and guess what? It actually ran the same ET and had a small increase in mph of .3 mph.
I know to dial it in right I need to read the plugs (Br7's). Right now I'm around 11.0 A/F way rich..... so after I lean it out some it should pick up even more power??
Sorry for the long post. Just excited that I'm finally making some progress. Your thoughts/ opinions?
ATV is right. There is never a reason to make a change as large as 5*. If you truly need to make a change that big, you need to figure out how it was you were that far off in the first place.
What system is this and what is the jetting? If you will get some information coming my way I, and the other's here can help you get it close.
5* swing in timing is HUGE !
You should NEVER use the knock sensors for anything, throw them in the trash.
11.0 is real rich, it will pick up for sure when you lean it out.
Get it around 12.5 A/F then put timing back in 1* at a time until the MPH slows down, then back it up 1-2*.
You should NEVER use the knock sensors for anything, throw them in the trash.
11.0 is real rich, it will pick up for sure when you lean it out.
Get it around 12.5 A/F then put timing back in 1* at a time until the MPH slows down, then back it up 1-2*.
I know every set up is different but on my car tuned at 12.5/1 I picked up no hp at all from 11.5/1 on the spray. I did pick up about 20 tq in the lower rpm mostly from the hit but I felt that gain was not worth it to me. I always run my timing on the conservative side as well. I do check the plugs and they did look good at the 12.5/1 pass but I still decided to add a little more fuel to it. My car makes best n/a power around 12.5/1, so that may have something to do with it.
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I know every set up is different but on my car tuned at 12.5/1 I picked up no hp at all from 11.5/1 on the spray. I did pick up about 20 tq in the lower rpm mostly from the hit but I felt that gain was not worth it to me. I always run my timing on the conservative side as well. I do check the plugs and they did look good at the 12.5/1 pass but I still decided to add a little more fuel to it. My car makes best n/a power around 12.5/1, so that may have something to do with it.
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Verdad Gallardo As far as overall aggressiveness of the tune. Nothing to do per say with the platform. I was more pointing out this the farthest thing from a race car with a new user. He has never pulled a plug so mid 12's and a timing until MPH stops going up is not how I would go about it. You know the variables as well as anyone and on the worst day, uphill, with so-so gas I would want this car to still be ok tuneup wise. You can read,tune, and set to kill the right way. Not the case for lots of guys.
Good post. Shows how AFR are just like dyno's. A tuning tool and the actual number means little.
Good post. Shows how AFR are just like dyno's. A tuning tool and the actual number means little.
LOL !What do you guys tell customers that dont/cant check plugs on timing?
Just a difference in A/F meters and I'm sure they all have some.
Justin has same FAST xfi as us and he runs a tad richer (.2-.3) A/F wise than we do but the plugs look about the same.... I'm convinced its just diff. in the sensor or sensor placement.
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I see, ya... damn newbs ! LOL !
What do you guys tell customers that dont/cant check plugs on timing?
Just a difference in A/F meters and I'm sure they all have some.
Justin has same FAST xfi as us and he runs a tad richer (.2-.3) A/F wise than we do but the plugs look about the same.... I'm convinced its just diff. in the sensor or sensor placement.
LOL !What do you guys tell customers that dont/cant check plugs on timing?
Just a difference in A/F meters and I'm sure they all have some.
Justin has same FAST xfi as us and he runs a tad richer (.2-.3) A/F wise than we do but the plugs look about the same.... I'm convinced its just diff. in the sensor or sensor placement.
To Pull a lot out of it. Literally I basically advise them to not go past 11.8 on a wideband and I keep ample timing pulled. About all we can do. I would like to push them toward having a shop do it, but lots of shops are getting it wrong because they do not know either.
I completely agree with this. Different sensors, placement, usage on the sensor, gauges, fuels, etc.
To Pull a lot out of it. Literally I basically advise them to not go past 11.8 on a wideband and I keep ample timing pulled. About all we can do. I would like to push them toward having a shop do it, but lots of shops are getting it wrong because they do not know either.
I completely agree with this. Different sensors, placement, usage on the sensor, gauges, fuels, etc.
I completely agree with this. Different sensors, placement, usage on the sensor, gauges, fuels, etc.
Guess its better than them blaming you when it blows up. LOL !
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So no leaner than 11.8 on a wideband and at least 2 degrees retarded timing per 50hp.
So if you where running 12.8 AFR and 28 degrees timing N/A. Youd want to richen up to 11.8 and pull timing towards 26 degrees max for a 50 shot, 24 degrees for 100 shot, 22 degrees for a 150 shot?
So if you where running 12.8 AFR and 28 degrees timing N/A. Youd want to richen up to 11.8 and pull timing towards 26 degrees max for a 50 shot, 24 degrees for 100 shot, 22 degrees for a 150 shot?
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So no leaner than 11.8 on a wideband and at least 2 degrees retarded timing per 50hp.
So if you where running 12.8 AFR and 28 degrees timing N/A. Youd want to richen up to 11.8 and pull timing towards 26 degrees max for a 50 shot, 24 degrees for 100 shot, 22 degrees for a 150 shot?
So if you where running 12.8 AFR and 28 degrees timing N/A. Youd want to richen up to 11.8 and pull timing towards 26 degrees max for a 50 shot, 24 degrees for 100 shot, 22 degrees for a 150 shot?
Agreed. ATVracer- I've read many of your posts and there is no doubt you know what your doing. Matter of fact thats one of the reasons I decided to take a closer look at my setup. I use to mix race fuel in and only pull a couple of degrees of timing out for 150hp shot.....did this for years for the last 4 years so I "thought" it was good. Thats why I was surprised when pulling 5 degrees out didn't slow it down but actually picked it up.
Graham- I just installed a stand alone set at 55psi 116 octane. HSW plate with 62/34 jets. A/F was 10.8 -11.0 last time at the track.
I tried a 33 fuel jet on the street and A/F leaned to around 11.4 So I think next step is pull more timing and try a 32 jet to get it to about 11.8 ? Then get a plug reading.
Graham- I just installed a stand alone set at 55psi 116 octane. HSW plate with 62/34 jets. A/F was 10.8 -11.0 last time at the track.
I tried a 33 fuel jet on the street and A/F leaned to around 11.4 So I think next step is pull more timing and try a 32 jet to get it to about 11.8 ? Then get a plug reading.
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I owned an fbody. 2 of them. That's no excuse.
with all the stuff we have done stock block etc. they all like to be efficient and lower time than standard thinking. they idle like a champ when you let off. idle on the cold plugs cold fuel etc.no popping and pissingafter you lift is a good sign it likes it. it be tough for anyone to convice me to ever run anything more than 12.5 to the rich side. id rather have low timing and lean than the normal over timed and rich. i believe low time/ lean is safer.
