Haveing thoughts of adding a second stage. Any suggestions?
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Launching!
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From: Laurel, Md
Haveing thoughts of adding a second stage. Any suggestions? O.K. heres the deal.
My car has run a best of 10.7@125 one a single stage TNT 150 wet shot. I really want to run closer to 128-130 with the addition of a dry stage. I am really thinking about adding this on top of my wet shot.
How do you guys think this would hold together?
I have stock pistons and rods. This would put the power I would think at close to 580-600 at the wheels. And would be a total of at least a 200 shot of gas, and maybe more like 250 after I get it dialed in.
What do you think. I know pistons and rods have failed around 650rwhp, but I was wondering what you guys thought?
Let me here it from some of you crazy big shot guys <img src="images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">
Thanks
My car has run a best of 10.7@125 one a single stage TNT 150 wet shot. I really want to run closer to 128-130 with the addition of a dry stage. I am really thinking about adding this on top of my wet shot.
How do you guys think this would hold together?
I have stock pistons and rods. This would put the power I would think at close to 580-600 at the wheels. And would be a total of at least a 200 shot of gas, and maybe more like 250 after I get it dialed in.
What do you think. I know pistons and rods have failed around 650rwhp, but I was wondering what you guys thought?
Let me here it from some of you crazy big shot guys <img src="images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">
Thanks
Re: Haveing thoughts of adding a second stage. Any suggestions? We added a 2nd stage dry to HackerJoe's car back in 1999 and it went 10.8@124mph, 11.49 on one stage (stock motor and heavy car).
I would look at intank fuel pump... I don't know but it seems to me that it won't support that much. His car peaked out at 127mph even with heads and cam, no upgraded intank, but added an inline.
I would look at intank fuel pump... I don't know but it seems to me that it won't support that much. His car peaked out at 127mph even with heads and cam, no upgraded intank, but added an inline.
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From: Austin, TX
Re: Haveing thoughts of adding a second stage. Any suggestions? I think you could get away with it on your car as is. Your fuel system rocks. Have you done the !dampner mod yet? I'd be a little easier on everything leaving with the dry shot on the brake, and having that wet about 40-60ft out would put you into 10.3-sec territory. SilverLS1 shot BIG amounts on his stock block, but most everyone tops off at about 100-150 dry and 150 wet. depends on your injectors. If i were you Id pick up a Pro #4 purge (cheap) and use that for your dry shot.
Ryan
Ryan
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Indianapolis, IN
Re: Haveing thoughts of adding a second stage. Any suggestions? I have done 200 hp shots here and there on the highway and some country back roads.
I am surprised you are not running more than 125mph
what converter are you using? is it built more around n20 or NA?
but then again it takes lots more at this power level to pick up MPH compared to say 115 mph trying for 118-9.
good luck and hell you won't know till you try <img src="graemlins/fluffy.gif" border="0" alt="[Fluffy]" />
I am surprised you are not running more than 125mph
what converter are you using? is it built more around n20 or NA?
but then again it takes lots more at this power level to pick up MPH compared to say 115 mph trying for 118-9.
good luck and hell you won't know till you try <img src="graemlins/fluffy.gif" border="0" alt="[Fluffy]" />
Teching In
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Re: Haveing thoughts of adding a second stage. Any suggestions? Thats what Im talking about Andy. Go on and add a 2nd stage. Except I would leave with the dry system then go to the wet. Maybe even leave with 75 dry and grab the 100hp wet on top of it. This would really wake things up. Let me know you know we got what you need <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[Burnout]" /> <img src="images/icons/grin.gif" border="0">
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From: Cecil County Raceway!!!
Re: Haveing thoughts of adding a second stage. Any suggestions? I'm about ready to turn up the heat on mine <img src="images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0">
Not sure which way yet:
50 dry 150 wet
-or-
100 dry 100 wet
-or-
100 dry 150 wet <img src="images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0">
Not sure which way yet:
50 dry 150 wet
-or-
100 dry 100 wet
-or-
100 dry 150 wet <img src="images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0">
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Verdad Gallardo SSU Moderator
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From: Austin, TX
Re: Haveing thoughts of adding a second stage. Any suggestions? hrmm. hard to hook up = less dry, good hook = more dry. Just shoot 150 wet all the time. check the plugs (and maybe a switch to a step colder plug) and watch the knock.
Ryan
Ryan
Teching In
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Re: Haveing thoughts of adding a second stage. Any suggestions? Yes Brian we definately need to anialate your best. I think the same setup would be beneficial on your car as well 75 dry to 100hp wet. Im working on somthing to allow a better dry setup but there are many obstacles we will have to overcome. We will get it working sooner or later though and it will change the dry kit as we know it. Until then we need to put a proven combo on your and Andy's cars to get those numbers down. <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[Burnout]" />
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Laurel, Md
Re: Haveing thoughts of adding a second stage. Any suggestions? PSJ: Just so you know!
I have a walbro intank pump, and an aeromotive fuel pressure regulater on the car that I can adjust were ever I want.
The fuel really isnt an issue on my setup, if I dont have enough I have another walbro in my closet, and Nick said he could get me the hardware to run both pumps.
Right now I am running 150 out of the hole at 1200psi of bottle pressure <img src="images/icons/grin.gif" border="0"> which falls to about 1100 by the end of the run. I am having a hard time hooking it up out of the hole. It has hooked one time and cut a 1.45 60'.
As far as my MPH goes. I have a three speed TH400 trans, and a 12 bolt, and 27 inch Hooiser QTP's with 3.42's out back. The best it has MPH in the 1/4 is 125.2, but it does run 100 in the 1/8th. I am running a Yank 4400 Thruster Pro Extreme.
James I want to run at least a 200 shot total. What about a 75 dry shot out of the hole, and a 125-150 shot from the middle of first gear on out.
Like I said Fuel isnt a problem!
The only thing I am worried about is the piston,rod issue. I would rather run a duel stage shot if I choose to go bigger then a total 150 shot. Only because I dont want to support that much fuel through the intake.
Talk to me guys about how much we have successfully run through a stock internal motor.
Thanks a ton!
Andy
James I am calling you tomorrow at the shop LOL <img src="images/icons/grin.gif" border="0">
I have a walbro intank pump, and an aeromotive fuel pressure regulater on the car that I can adjust were ever I want.
The fuel really isnt an issue on my setup, if I dont have enough I have another walbro in my closet, and Nick said he could get me the hardware to run both pumps.
Right now I am running 150 out of the hole at 1200psi of bottle pressure <img src="images/icons/grin.gif" border="0"> which falls to about 1100 by the end of the run. I am having a hard time hooking it up out of the hole. It has hooked one time and cut a 1.45 60'.
As far as my MPH goes. I have a three speed TH400 trans, and a 12 bolt, and 27 inch Hooiser QTP's with 3.42's out back. The best it has MPH in the 1/4 is 125.2, but it does run 100 in the 1/8th. I am running a Yank 4400 Thruster Pro Extreme.
James I want to run at least a 200 shot total. What about a 75 dry shot out of the hole, and a 125-150 shot from the middle of first gear on out.
Like I said Fuel isnt a problem!
The only thing I am worried about is the piston,rod issue. I would rather run a duel stage shot if I choose to go bigger then a total 150 shot. Only because I dont want to support that much fuel through the intake.
Talk to me guys about how much we have successfully run through a stock internal motor.
Thanks a ton!
Andy
James I am calling you tomorrow at the shop LOL <img src="images/icons/grin.gif" border="0">
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Laurel, Md
Re: Haveing thoughts of adding a second stage. Any suggestions? One other thing,
My car runs 11.7's@114-115 on the motor right now, so it dosnt make a ton of power on the motor. I would say around 350rwhp.
My car runs 11.7's@114-115 on the motor right now, so it dosnt make a ton of power on the motor. I would say around 350rwhp.
Re: Haveing thoughts of adding a second stage. Any suggestions? You're a wild man! <img src="images/icons/grin.gif" border="0">
What about going to a 200 shot set-up and use a progressive controller to get you out of the hole w/o spinning? I guess that violates your intake constraint, but you could really dial in the 60' that way.
Maybe it's time to go to a direct port set-up. <img src="images/icons/grin.gif" border="0">
What would be the cost of switching?
What about going to a 200 shot set-up and use a progressive controller to get you out of the hole w/o spinning? I guess that violates your intake constraint, but you could really dial in the 60' that way.
Maybe it's time to go to a direct port set-up. <img src="images/icons/grin.gif" border="0">
What would be the cost of switching?
Re: Haveing thoughts of adding a second stage. Any suggestions? I got two bottles mounted behind the front seats. I was thinking the same thing. i want to run a dual stage, but i have no fuel system upgrade. since your fuel seems to be good, i think it will last a little bit. but then again it's all in how much your spraying and how many times. keep an eye on the 02's and the knock and be prepared to build another motor just in case. that's the only reason why i haven't done a 150 shot yet in my car. don't have a spare motor laying around. Good luck!!
Chris
Chris
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Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Milford, Ohio
Re: Haveing thoughts of adding a second stage. Any suggestions? My vote definitly goes to a progressive rather than a two-stage system. If you're looking at going much over 200 total - I assume you are - start looking into a direct port system. Beyond 200-250 you're going to have problems with the fuel dropping out in the intake manifold.
Thread Starter
Launching!
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From: Laurel, Md
Re: Haveing thoughts of adding a second stage. Any suggestions? But CHris that is exactly my point!
I dont want to run a single stage 200 wet shot because of fuel puddling concerns. SO what I am thinking about doing is running a 75 dry shot out of the hole, and grab the 150 wet shot at the 60' mark.
I could use a progresser but that dosnt solve my problem of trying to put at least a 200 shot through the intake.
And the only problem with the direct port is that its only a single stage event so trying to hook up a 200 wet shot out of the hole is gonna be tough with my current suspension setup. I am working on solving that issue though.
I have James at TNT working on something for me though <img src="images/icons/grin.gif" border="0">
I dont want to run a single stage 200 wet shot because of fuel puddling concerns. SO what I am thinking about doing is running a 75 dry shot out of the hole, and grab the 150 wet shot at the 60' mark.
I could use a progresser but that dosnt solve my problem of trying to put at least a 200 shot through the intake.
And the only problem with the direct port is that its only a single stage event so trying to hook up a 200 wet shot out of the hole is gonna be tough with my current suspension setup. I am working on solving that issue though.
I have James at TNT working on something for me though <img src="images/icons/grin.gif" border="0">
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From: Austin, TX
Re: Haveing thoughts of adding a second stage. Any suggestions? go two stage. 200 shot through the intake is not a good idea. a progressive controller is A GREAT IDEA, but not in this case. direct ports are just too damned expensive. 1500+ just for the lines/jets/fittings. then you have to build a fuel system. forget the easy stuff. DP need carb pressure to get DOWN to 200 efficiently. then its a separate fuel source/pump/regulator or (my favorite) sump the tank ('98) and a Magnaflow pump and regulator in line with a good return system. Youll also need to look into opening up the rails as well. not for more flow or anything, just to keep the crossover and dampner from becoming problems. Thats big time stuff. just two stage it. if you play your cards right, itd cost you like 20-60 bucks. how can you go wrong. you can just as easily tune the dry shot for traction as a PC. look at Silver LS1, fastest **** on a stock block. look at KECHME, 10.30's with mild heads and an ARE n2o cam--4L60/3500 stall, 3.23's--figure that out...
Ryan
Ryan
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Re: Haveing thoughts of adding a second stage. Any suggestions? Andy,
Regardless of your fuel system I think you are pushing the edge with your existing combo. I think adding another stage with your stock head gaskets and stock head bolts will either lift the heads and blow a gasket or shatter a piston and maybe toss a rod. Just make sure you have enough budgeted for a total rebuild of your motor and possibly your tranny too if the entire motor locks at 120mph. If you like I can contact Nick at ARE and get his recommendation for your setup. He has guys running 300-350RWHP worth of juice to the wheels. If you are on a budget than the 360 will work great for you. If you have a little more cash the 393 all bore works great as well. I think if you went with the 393 with a good head and fairly mild cam you would run 126-127mph on motor in your combo and probably 135-137mph with a 150-175 shot through your existing nitrous system. you could run dual lines to either side of the rail from a Y block and dual pumps in parallel as well. I know this is sounding expensive but I would hate to see you wipe your motor. You are getting into serious levels of spray and are going to have problems if you aren't really careful.
Good Luck with whatever you decide.
Chris
Regardless of your fuel system I think you are pushing the edge with your existing combo. I think adding another stage with your stock head gaskets and stock head bolts will either lift the heads and blow a gasket or shatter a piston and maybe toss a rod. Just make sure you have enough budgeted for a total rebuild of your motor and possibly your tranny too if the entire motor locks at 120mph. If you like I can contact Nick at ARE and get his recommendation for your setup. He has guys running 300-350RWHP worth of juice to the wheels. If you are on a budget than the 360 will work great for you. If you have a little more cash the 393 all bore works great as well. I think if you went with the 393 with a good head and fairly mild cam you would run 126-127mph on motor in your combo and probably 135-137mph with a 150-175 shot through your existing nitrous system. you could run dual lines to either side of the rail from a Y block and dual pumps in parallel as well. I know this is sounding expensive but I would hate to see you wipe your motor. You are getting into serious levels of spray and are going to have problems if you aren't really careful.
Good Luck with whatever you decide.
Chris
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From: Austin, TX
Re: Haveing thoughts of adding a second stage. Any suggestions? Chris is right. With a venture like this, its a good idea to start thinkng "what if." Having said that, I must respectfully disagree with Chris. There have been quite a few cars running 200 or less (and 200 or more) on a stock block. Sean (KECHME) had mildly ported heads and a 226/234 554/575 110 cam which helped a lot with not building excess cylinder pressure. Guys like Silver LS1 have used massive octane (118) to keep away detonation. Others like 2k1 ls1 have just been lucky or just not had the system long enough to blow the **** up. If it were me, id go for it. Talk to James of course and get his recommendation. This is what id do if you were serious. Put in a cam similar to yours but with a 112 or 110 LSA. the idle with change of course but cyl pressure will go down. Also, there is a way to get the rings to seal better but installing a more effective PCV system or something (old TECH-LS1 discussion), im not sure. raise the octane. straight 104 or a healthy mix to keep the octane high. or you could add leaded gas. the dry first stage WILL PULL 4 DEGREES OF TIMING so that will help ward off any detonation with the second. you got the tranny, the rear, and a good fuel system, GO FOR IT.
Ryan
Ryan
Launching!
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From: Dallas, Tx
Re: Haveing thoughts of adding a second stage. Any suggestions? I say go for it! I built the twostage for 2k1 Ls1's car, and it worked out perfect. Had a .47 dry pill and a .47 wet on the second stage. Car was a STOCK MOTOR, with headers.....ran approx 11.3's on the 1st stage, and 10.89 @ 126mph on the second. Always ran 116octane, cold plugs, tuned it constantly. If you take your time and do it right, I think you will be ok. But, you realize that you DO have the stock pistons and you will be taking a pretty big risk <img src="images/icons/smile.gif" border="0">