Safe total timing 50-100 shot?
10-24-2012, 01:53 PM
#21
im not saying that you cant make power that way... but read the original post, his setup is right there. are you guys honestly gonna suggest this guy takes his car back to get it retuned to run on some shitty nitrous tune instead of sticking with his current n/a tune (so you can still daily it nicely), and use the timing controller box (he already has) to just pull some timing when he occasionally is gonna spray it?? i mean he is only talking about wanting to put a 50 on it and maybe a 100. if he was spraying 150+ then yeah you might wanna go get tuned on that but for now in my opinion he will be fine running his current setup using the timing controller to pull a few degrees.
if you have means of monitering knock than you are set, hell you could pull 3 degrees on the 50 and see what it does then go from there (im pretty sure you will end up being fine with the current tune on the 50 shot) as for reading plugs the proper way to do it is make a wot pass and shut it down immediately after, not sure if thats how you did it or not?
Let me put it like this. If somebody was coming at you with a hammer would you let them hit you first and then try to stop them or would you stop them before they even got near you? That's the way you need to treat knock.
Plus your plugs will tell you of detonation before any sensor will.
10-24-2012, 02:14 PM
#22
how are you gonna lean it out properly without tuning... and who the f**k are you to tell me to stop posting??? you obviously dont know as much as you think monitoring knock is very useful thats why gm put the sensors in the car.
10-24-2012, 02:20 PM
#24
He is entirely right on the correct way to go about it. He is giving enough on timing that he KNOWS 100% will be safe and then you can add timing from there. Starting with pulling zero timing because so and so did it is completely wrong. Start safe 4 or so degrees and then see what happens. I can guarentee that won't hurt the motor where pulling zero could or could not depending on many things.
And yes going by knock is extremely terrible. It will eat that strap and piston wy before you catch it on a sensor. Nitrous has a ton more heat and cylinder pressure than your NA stuff. Learn to tune by the plug not a sensor. It's safer without a doubt
10-24-2012, 03:33 PM
#27
everything i've shared is from first hand experience or seeing it done first hand, my camro will be the 4th car that ill be spraying on until i can finish piecing together my turbo kit. and camscam your post doesnt even make sense to me, i told the op to pull 2 degrees of timing per 50 shot. i never told him to start without pulling timing. need to get your facts straight before trying to sort someone out.
and im not getting you knock sensor theory, lets play out a senario for checking detonation by checking plugs. you turn back timing to what you think is enough, make a nitrous WOT pass, then check your plugs...... well what if it wasnt enough. if you was logging knock on your dash hawk you could of let out of it as soon as you saw that it was detonating and maybe save your engine.
i replied based on what the OP described in his first post, and with a pretty simple answer at that. start with 2 degrees per 50 shot (wanna argue with me there?) then silverbullet comes back saying something like pull 8 degrees and lean it out. why make it more confusing? i know you guys are spraying big shots but he isnt. he has a wet kit and is spraying a 50 mayyybe the 100 why complicate things, because you had nothing else better to do than try and bash someone with low post count?? dont think just because my profile on here isnt all fancy and i dont have 1k posts that i dont know anything, cause it just isnt true...
and im not getting you knock sensor theory, lets play out a senario for checking detonation by checking plugs. you turn back timing to what you think is enough, make a nitrous WOT pass, then check your plugs...... well what if it wasnt enough. if you was logging knock on your dash hawk you could of let out of it as soon as you saw that it was detonating and maybe save your engine.
i replied based on what the OP described in his first post, and with a pretty simple answer at that. start with 2 degrees per 50 shot (wanna argue with me there?) then silverbullet comes back saying something like pull 8 degrees and lean it out. why make it more confusing? i know you guys are spraying big shots but he isnt. he has a wet kit and is spraying a 50 mayyybe the 100 why complicate things, because you had nothing else better to do than try and bash someone with low post count?? dont think just because my profile on here isnt all fancy and i dont have 1k posts that i dont know anything, cause it just isnt true...
10-24-2012, 03:55 PM
#28
also i never argued the fact about tuning to spark plugs or knock, simply that knock sensors can pick up detonation faster than pulling plugs. hell i had a 351w foxbody that had a 180hp plate kit and i had to tune to plugs
10-24-2012, 04:02 PM
#29
Before the damage is done, no.
You can sit there an data log and such and see no knock at all. Then pull your plugs and see little specks on it. Which do you believe?
A knock sensor looks for a certain window of frequency. I can't remember it off the top of my head but it is somewhere around 3900 Hz. If its not in that window of range, knock sensor won't see it. So looking at your fancy screen won't help you at all in that situation.
10-24-2012, 04:08 PM
#30
and im not getting you knock sensor theory, lets play out a senario for checking detonation by checking plugs. you turn back timing to what you think is enough, make a nitrous WOT pass, then check your plugs...... well what if it wasnt enough. if you was logging knock on your dash hawk you could of let out of it as soon as you saw that it was detonating and maybe save your engine.
If you have to wait to see it on your dash hawk, its already too late.
10-24-2012, 04:18 PM
#31
that may happen if you have a bad knock sensor. but the only way you are getting specs on your plugs is pre ignition. knock sensors can detect pre ignition even just from running different grade gas. im pretty sure they'll be able to detect knock due to nitrous...
10-24-2012, 04:26 PM
#33
First, the frequency that it looks for might be in the case when you have bad gas. Second, the frequency of when when you are spraying nitrous and it goes into knock might not be the frequency it looks for.
Knock sensors were designed to detect small issues like bad gas and so forth, not to pick up knock while spraying nitrous. I can honestly say GM engineers didn't have that on their mind when they devised the knock sensor and the pcm.
Also, I never stated the color of the specks. I just said specks whether it be black or silver specks.
10-24-2012, 04:37 PM
#35
the knock sensors will detect pre-ignition, period. no matter what form. they are even accurate enough to sense slight detonation from bad gas. thats where i was goin with that lol. you dont think that maybe if they can detect these slight changes that they wont hear the nitrous detonation?? now your just sounding desperate
10-24-2012, 04:39 PM
#36
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lol yall are silly. spray that thing. dont let every one on ls1tech scare you. your going to have to have some serious pre existing problem to blow that thing up on 50-100 shot. quit trying to make a simple question into such a complex one
10-24-2012, 04:57 PM
#38
the knock sensors will detect pre-ignition, period. no matter what form. they are even accurate enough to sense slight detonation from bad gas. thats where i was goin with that lol. you dont think that maybe if they can detect these slight changes that they wont hear the nitrous detonation?? now your just sounding desperate
Sorry also, David GXP.
10-24-2012, 05:26 PM
#39
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i still say your trying to use rules that might apply for bigger shots on such a little shot. i have sprayed mine for almost 2 years. half on the stock tune, and half on a modded 93 diablo tune. with 0 problems. if he was wanting to spray a 150+ id say knock it down 4-8* but for the question at hand. id spray the 50 the way it sets and knock it down 4* if you want to do the 100 shot.
10-24-2012, 05:47 PM
#40
what ever dude why not start a new thread then? because knock sensors pick up detonation no matter what kind of stupid sounding spin you put on it. making them a perfect tuning tool