I'm looking for the best/most economical option for pulling timing. My car will be N/A most of the time, but I will be spraying a 150 wet shot. My tuner said if he pulls out the needed timing all of the time, my N/A setup will lose anywhere from 35-45 hp, and that's not an option, so I need something that will pull timing when I want to spray. I'd like to know what others are using and what is going to be my best, most economical option.

 

LNC 2000 seems to be the best option as of right now. Easy to install and has a built in 2 step. Can find a used one for under $200 or new for $275 also need the TVSS (surge protectors) at 5 bucks per solenoid.

 

The lingenfelter LNC 2000 is a very popular choice in timing control because of how easy it to operate and program. MSD also makes a timing twister that works in the same way. Both are very reliable units.

Trey

 

If you are tuning with EFI live you can use the custom operating system to pull the timing. Otherwise the best option is the lingenfelter controller. It can remove up to 15 degrees of timing and has a 0-5 volt reference wire so you can verify its working.
It also has a two step and its super easy to install.

http://nitrousoutlet.com/index.php/e...ontroller.html

 

+1 on the linginfelter controller, thats what i will be purchasing very soon. awesome that it also has a built in 2 step

 

Im using the lnc-2000 no problems here.

 

Any opinions on the Timing Tuner with N2O Control?

The Timing Tuner is a device that is installed on LS1 and derivative engine equipped vehicles for adjusting the spark advance 'timing' to extract improved engine performance. The unit installs 'in-line' with the crankshaft sensor wiring and alters the signal that is received by the PCM (Powertrain Control Module, 'engine computer'). By shifting the crankshaft signal ahead or behind in time the spark timing in the engine is changed.

The Timing Tuner is used to adjust the Spark Advance to improve engine response and power. Assuming sufficient octane fuel is used, most production engines will make more power with a few more degrees of spark advance. However when Nitrous Oxide or superchargers/turbochargers are used to raise horsepower the spark advance must be reduced (retarded) to prevent detonation. Detonation (pinging, spark knocking) is very destructive and is to be avoided. Always run high enough octane fuel for the power levels desired.

The Timing Tuner also has a Nitrous Oxide (N2O) control feature. The unit features activation delay, timing retard, and activation controls based on RPM (programmable window switch). The setup can be optimized for non-N2O driving and when the trigger wire is energized the secondary settings are activated. This ensures the optimum setting is always available both with and without N2O.

THE TIMING TUNER KIT CONTAINS THE FOLLOWING PARTS:


Timing Tuner control box
Timing Tuner wiring harness (3 feet long)
N2O connection harness (18 inches long)
Service jumper plug
Tie-wraps
Instruction manual
ADJUSTMENTS AND LED'S:
The Timing Tuner has several adjustments:
Spark Base: Adjusts the spark advance/retard at all RPMs
Spark WOT: Adjusts the spark advance at RPMs over 3000
RPM: Adjust the minimum RPM to activate the N2O relay
RTD: Adjusts additional spark retard when N2O is activated
MODE: A series of switches to set the N2O activation delay and maximum RPM
The Timing Tuner has 2 indicator LED's: Both LED's turn on for a moment when the unit is powered up, this is for checking LED operation. The Green LED will blink once when the settings are changed to indicate that the change has be recognized.

Green: Indicates that the unit has synchronized with the crankshaft and is controlling spark advance timing.

Red: indicates that the N2O relay has been turned on and the RTD spark advance setting is active.

The LED's also are used to indicate various detected error conditions within the Timing Tuner System.

Green: 1 blink - Crank sensor pulses detected out of order.

Green: 2 blinks - Noisy crank sensor signal (reroute wiring)

Red+Green alternating - Incorect connection or operation is detected with the N2O pilot relay. The relay must be connected as shown in the Connection Diagram.

Turning the engine off resets all detected error conditions.

N2O TRIGGER AND DELAY
The Timing Tuner has several features for control of N2O:

Activation Delay
Minimum RPM
Maximum RPM
Activation Delay is used to delay the activation of the N2O system so the car's suspension has a chance to react and plant the rear tires before the N2O 'hits'. The delay is adjusted by setting Mode switches 1-3, see the table below. The delay happens once in a race, if the N2O is deactivated during a race and the engine RPMs do not drop below 3000, the delay is bypassed when the N2O is retriggered. This is useful when bracket racing and trying to stay ahead of the competition without 'breaking out'. Or when traction is lost and the driver 'lifts' to stop the wheelspin.

Minimum RPM is a setting for tuning the turn-on RPM for the N2O. This setting is checked after the Activation Delay has expired. It is used in place of, or in conjunction with Activation Delay to control the point at which the N2O is triggered in relation to torque converter stall speed.

Maximum RPM is selected with the Mode 4 switch. It is used to de-activate the N2O system below the PCM rev limiter setting. If the engine hits the PCM rev limiter with the N2O activated, a backfire could occur.


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In my truck I use an EFILIve COS to control nitrous and the boost. In the Corvette I use a COS EFILIve tune also as well as a IAT modded table for the 2 stage nitrous kit.

 

I have installed a lot of timing tuners over the years. They worked well. The only reason we stopped offering them is because they were hard to get.

I personally like the lingenfelter better for a few reasons.

1. The lingenfelter you can verify the unit is actually pulling timing.

2. Install is much easier. You simply plug the unit in between the coil pack connectors and hook one wire to the relay.

3. It can remove up to 15 degrees of timing.

4. It has a built in two step that you can wire up with just a few more wires.

 

So am I acurate in saying that the Timing Tuner has a RPM Window Switch and the Ligenfelter LNC 2000 does not? Being a M6 car, I want to have a RPM Window Switch. I just want to be 100% clear that the LNC 2000 unit does not have this, because if it does, I think that would be my best option due to how easy it is to hook up and the great reviews I've read about it.

 

in for results on this! i like the idea of the lnc-2000...wasnt there another lingenfelter unit that was 600 bucks?

 

I do too, but if the LNC 2000 doesn't act as a RPM Window Switch, I can't really justify buying it when the Timing Tuner does have a RPM Window Switch and allows me to pull timing, which are the two things I'm looking for.

 

yes there is, it has a full lcd screen and a bunch of features its on their website

 

the timing tuner has a built in window switch and a full throttle switch as well... an electronic controller is my next purchase and im still torn on what to get, really have to get two controllers to get all of the functions

 

Yeah, the Timing Tuner has everything all in one device; pulls timing, RPM window switch and a full throttle switch. Plus, the price is less than the LNC device. Looks like that is the way I'll go.

 

If u havent already ordered the timing tuner box. I have onr i am willing sell its brand new never used. Shoot me a text we can make a deal 608-931-3326

 

the timing tuner does not have a built in WOT switch, it just has a seperate function for rpm's above 3k, so a micro switch is needed as a saftey feature, still looks like the nos mini and lnc2000 is the best package...

 

That is our Nitrous Control Center (NCC). It is not a timing retard device or RPM limiter like our LNC.

http://www.lingenfelter.com/mm5/merc...w=&range_high=


Ryan

 

So looking around, I came across this dead thread. After doing some research (30minutes during coffee) let me finish it.

The intake air temperature(IAT) sensor might not be the right place to change the timing and decreasing the temperature will advance the timing. The ECU uses 1 base map, and 4 Multi maps for the IAT, so it will be hard to predict the change. On the other hand the Engine Coolant Temperature(ECT) has only one map and one Multi Map. I have attached mine below.
As we can see from the base map, 2 degrees of timing are removed from the 90 to 100. So if we increase the temperature censed by 10 degrees C we can get the desired retard out of the ECU. Looking at the manufacture data sheet, we need to drop the resistance by about 150 Ohm to increase the temperature about 10 degrees C. To do this we will be decreasing the total resistance by adding a resistor in parallel. Yes, we are assuming that the car is up to temperature when we hit the nitrous and we are not over heating.

Using the good old formula we were learned in grade school 1/Rt = 1/R1 + 1/R2, turns into 1/95 = 1/245 + 1/X solve for X and we have a resistance of 155 Ohms

So now we use a relay, and a 155 Ohm resistor in parallel with the ECT to get our retard while we are shooting the 50 to 75 shot of nitrous.

PS: A 155 Ohm resistor is odd ball, you may have to make one out of other resistors in parallel or series, or better yet use a potentiometer to dial in your retard.


ECT Map