200shot? Why not? LS1 turbo does it....
11-15-2002, 09:20 AM
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200shot? Why not? LS1 turbo does it.... LS1 Motorsports will soon release the Single Turbo Kit for the '98-02 LS1 F-Body.
Initial dyno testing was completed on customer Shawn Stewart's '01 WS6 6 speed Trans Am. Prior to installation of our Single Turbo System, his car dynoed 313 rwhp / 328 rwtq. After installing our complete kit and dialing the boost to 9lbs, we managed 534rwhp / 687rwtq at a safe 12:1 A/F ratio. That's an increase of 221 REAR WHEEL HP and 360 REAR WHEEL FT/LB of TORQUE ! (This was done with the completely stock engine, through an open exhaust.)
That from the LS1 Motorsports site. It sounds like this is a stock car. 534RWHP & 687RWTQ....
Is that car going to explode after 6 months or what? The turbo added 221hp and 360tq, so why would'nt I be able to run a 200 shot If I tune correctly. I have a dual stage. I would shoot 100hp then another 100. 1st, 3200RPM. 2nd 4500RPM.
500RWHP sounds like a good number to stop at without upgrading the block.
Curently, I've made 430 & 480 with a single 75shot, but 500 sounds better.
I know the turbo hits alot softer, But still. It seems that if you had proper tuning. You could net the same HP gains with N2o as a turbo and still be just as reliable.
What do ya think?
Initial dyno testing was completed on customer Shawn Stewart's '01 WS6 6 speed Trans Am. Prior to installation of our Single Turbo System, his car dynoed 313 rwhp / 328 rwtq. After installing our complete kit and dialing the boost to 9lbs, we managed 534rwhp / 687rwtq at a safe 12:1 A/F ratio. That's an increase of 221 REAR WHEEL HP and 360 REAR WHEEL FT/LB of TORQUE ! (This was done with the completely stock engine, through an open exhaust.)
That from the LS1 Motorsports site. It sounds like this is a stock car. 534RWHP & 687RWTQ....
Is that car going to explode after 6 months or what? The turbo added 221hp and 360tq, so why would'nt I be able to run a 200 shot If I tune correctly. I have a dual stage. I would shoot 100hp then another 100. 1st, 3200RPM. 2nd 4500RPM.
500RWHP sounds like a good number to stop at without upgrading the block.
Curently, I've made 430 & 480 with a single 75shot, but 500 sounds better.
I know the turbo hits alot softer, But still. It seems that if you had proper tuning. You could net the same HP gains with N2o as a turbo and still be just as reliable.
What do ya think?
11-15-2002, 10:35 AM
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Re: 200shot? Why not? LS1 turbo does it.... you pretty much summed it up yourself....Nitrous comes in so fast its like BAM 100 HP and that puts a lot of stress on stuff...with a turbo or supercharger for that matter the boost comes in and the power comes in fast but more gradual it is still stressful however but with adding more power your gonna add stress but it just isnt AS stressful on parts..
11-15-2002, 02:10 PM
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Re: 200shot? Why not? LS1 turbo does it.... N20 has so much torque, that it will blow the motor apart before you get to the upper RPM's where it makes HP.
For example a Nx or TNT 100 shot has been shown to add over 180#'s of torque when it hits at 3000 rpm's
When you get to 5252 rpm's the gain is normally 100-115 #'s which translates directly to 100-115 hp.
Progressive controlers are nice, and will allow you to run a much larger shot, its just hitting the juice all at once, or even progressive at low RPMs will cause a lot more stress than a turbo setup.
If you want a NX progressive controler, my frined is selling one Here
Ryan.
For example a Nx or TNT 100 shot has been shown to add over 180#'s of torque when it hits at 3000 rpm's
When you get to 5252 rpm's the gain is normally 100-115 #'s which translates directly to 100-115 hp.
Progressive controlers are nice, and will allow you to run a much larger shot, its just hitting the juice all at once, or even progressive at low RPMs will cause a lot more stress than a turbo setup.
If you want a NX progressive controler, my frined is selling one Here
Ryan.
11-15-2002, 02:12 PM
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Re: 200shot? Why not? LS1 turbo does it.... there is a company called fastech, sean freeze has been doing 200+ shots on bolt-on ls1s for a while now, they call it the tranny breaker hehe. maybe someone has the videos around still, its pretty crazy, the TQ is insane.
11-15-2002, 02:22 PM
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Re: 200shot? Why not? LS1 turbo does it.... it can take (at a risk)with octane, timing retard and enough fuel. Just make sure it doesn't detonate and you never hit too early or get on the rev limiter. Tranny needs upgrading too.
BTW; you can just as fast as a turbo or SC car with less n2o.(with alot less tuning trouble) Just cause they made 220hp PEAK doen't mean you need 200hp worth of n2o to run with them. With that much hp FI or N2o you are asking for some problems.
Spray 125-150 and be happy. With all safety precautions you should have no problems with it.
N2O has an undeserved bad reputation.
<small>[ November 15, 2002, 02:25 PM: Message edited by: fastlif ]</small>
BTW; you can just as fast as a turbo or SC car with less n2o.(with alot less tuning trouble) Just cause they made 220hp PEAK doen't mean you need 200hp worth of n2o to run with them. With that much hp FI or N2o you are asking for some problems.
Spray 125-150 and be happy. With all safety precautions you should have no problems with it.
N2O has an undeserved bad reputation.
<small>[ November 15, 2002, 02:25 PM: Message edited by: fastlif ]</small>
11-15-2002, 04:22 PM
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Re: 200shot? Why not? LS1 turbo does it.... The motor will take it for a very short time. The ringlands are what breaks on the LS1. Just ask the FI guys. Its a ticking time bomb. I know. I lost my motor from the "awesome" 200 shot. I do have a dyno graph of it, BUT it wasnt working right (not enough N2O, I was somewhere ~ 9:1 A/F <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" /> ) I went from ~340 RWTQ to 700 RWTQ in about 200 RPMs <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />
It is VERY violent!!!! So I say go for it if you want a reason to build that bigger motor <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
It is VERY violent!!!! So I say go for it if you want a reason to build that bigger motor <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
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11-16-2002, 12:21 AM
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Re: 200shot? Why not? LS1 turbo does it.... Look at a Turbo or SC car dyno and compare that to a N2O car dyno and you will see the problem. Although the FI car can put down sick numbers, the power curve is still gradual. A N2O car adds it's power just about immediatly. It isn't necessarily (to a point) the total power that is the problem, but the delta of the power coming in from the N2O shot that is so hard on the bottom end. Multi-stage setups and especially progressive setups overcome this problem to a large degree.
11-16-2002, 12:38 AM
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Re: 200shot? Why not? LS1 turbo does it.... Are there any other factors as to why nitrous is harder on a motor than turbo/supercharging. If I was going to run a 200shot. It would not a single stage.
If the hard hit is the only reason nitrous is more stressfull. Then mulpiple stages or a progressive controller would fix the problem.
A tripple stage with 50shots each stage!!!!Holly **** <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" /> That would be insanne. Putting the car at 500rwhp. That would'nt be hard hitting, plus I would need the stages to keep the wheels stuck.
Lets say I was going to run a M6 turbo LS1 from a 70mph roll. I'm doing 70 in 3rd ready to smash. The N2o hits intantly (HARD!)If a turbo ls1 is doing the same thing. 70 in 3rd. His RPM is high. Is the turbo spood up ready to supply max boot when the driver goes WOT? <Will it hit hard like N20?> Or is there a turbo lag even at higher RPM?
I'm just trying to get a idea of how much more stressfull N2o is over blowers. If it's possible to make over 500rwhp with a turbo and a stock block. I wanna do it with nitrous <img border="0" alt="[judgement]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_judge.gif" />
If the hard hit is the only reason nitrous is more stressfull. Then mulpiple stages or a progressive controller would fix the problem.
A tripple stage with 50shots each stage!!!!Holly **** <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" /> That would be insanne. Putting the car at 500rwhp. That would'nt be hard hitting, plus I would need the stages to keep the wheels stuck.
Lets say I was going to run a M6 turbo LS1 from a 70mph roll. I'm doing 70 in 3rd ready to smash. The N2o hits intantly (HARD!)If a turbo ls1 is doing the same thing. 70 in 3rd. His RPM is high. Is the turbo spood up ready to supply max boot when the driver goes WOT? <Will it hit hard like N20?> Or is there a turbo lag even at higher RPM?
I'm just trying to get a idea of how much more stressfull N2o is over blowers. If it's possible to make over 500rwhp with a turbo and a stock block. I wanna do it with nitrous <img border="0" alt="[judgement]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_judge.gif" />
11-16-2002, 12:51 AM
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Re: 200shot? Why not? LS1 turbo does it.... Am I crazy for even thinking about running a 200shot on a stock block?
I dought I'll go with a tripple stage but dual 100s sound badass!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> A RPM progressive controler would be sweet!! I tell myself 500rwhp with my stock block is going to be the max, so I really only need a 150, dual 75s. But somthing could come up where I might need 550 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
I dought I'll go with a tripple stage but dual 100s sound badass!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> A RPM progressive controler would be sweet!! I tell myself 500rwhp with my stock block is going to be the max, so I really only need a 150, dual 75s. But somthing could come up where I might need 550 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
11-25-2002, 04:37 PM
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Re: 200shot? Why not? LS1 turbo does it.... A 200 shot will kill a stock block huh? Should have told me that 12 bottles ago. TNT F2 with the fuel jetted at 250 running straight 100 octane. I am still running the same NGK plugs from the start of the season. If you tune it gradually on a wide band dyno jet it's not a problem. Start at 100hp and work your way up, also additional fuel pumps are a must. <img border="0" alt="[Firebird]" title="" src="graemlins/formula.gif" />
Also I turn on the juice at 3200 and have 29 deg total timing.
<small>[ November 25, 2002, 04:39 PM: Message edited by: ONEBADWS6 ]</small>
Also I turn on the juice at 3200 and have 29 deg total timing.
<small>[ November 25, 2002, 04:39 PM: Message edited by: ONEBADWS6 ]</small>
11-25-2002, 05:17 PM
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Re: 200shot? Why not? LS1 turbo does it.... I am runing 2 stage and twin turbos on a stock bottom end! It is all in the tune I think YES with the right setup. And put down big numbers! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
11-25-2002, 05:53 PM
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Re: 200shot? Why not? LS1 turbo does it.... We have a guy here in Vegas running a dual setup jetted to a 225-245 shot depending on the race <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> and he's ran that setup for over a year on a stock bottom with no problems. I'm going to runa 200 shot, wet, why not?
11-30-2002, 10:49 PM
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Re: 200shot? Why not? LS1 turbo does it.... I plan on getting an LS1motorsports kit for my car next summer....I am going to run 7lbs on my stock bottom end and then when I want to get a little more I put it up to 9 and run 100 octane... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Just heads/cam car... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Just heads/cam car... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
12-01-2002, 07:35 PM
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Re: 200shot? Why not? LS1 turbo does it.... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Pewter'00Z28:
<strong>We have a guy here in Vegas running a dual setup jetted to a 225-245 shot depending on the race <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> and he's ran that setup for over a year on a stock bottom with no problems. I'm going to runa 200 shot, wet, why not?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">His is a two-stage wet/dry setup.
It comes in stages hence the name. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
No problems huh? Funny I heard different.
200 shot huh?
Should I plan your shop appointment for bottom-end replacement?
<img border="0" alt="[jester]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_jest.gif" />
How about working out the details on the cam/converter setup first Remulade.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
<strong>We have a guy here in Vegas running a dual setup jetted to a 225-245 shot depending on the race <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> and he's ran that setup for over a year on a stock bottom with no problems. I'm going to runa 200 shot, wet, why not?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">His is a two-stage wet/dry setup.
It comes in stages hence the name. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
No problems huh? Funny I heard different.
200 shot huh?
Should I plan your shop appointment for bottom-end replacement?
<img border="0" alt="[jester]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_jest.gif" />
How about working out the details on the cam/converter setup first Remulade.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
12-02-2002, 04:16 PM
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Re: 200shot? Why not? LS1 turbo does it.... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by SSValet:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Pewter'00Z28:
<strong>We have a guy here in Vegas running a dual setup jetted to a 225-245 shot depending on the race <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> and he's ran that setup for over a year on a stock bottom with no problems. I'm going to runa 200 shot, wet, why not?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">His is a two-stage wet/dry setup.
It comes in stages hence the name. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
No problems huh? Funny I heard different.
200 shot huh?
Should I plan your shop appointment for bottom-end replacement?
<img border="0" alt="[jester]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_jest.gif" />
How about working out the details on the cam/converter setup first Remulade.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Pewter'00Z28:
<strong>We have a guy here in Vegas running a dual setup jetted to a 225-245 shot depending on the race <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> and he's ran that setup for over a year on a stock bottom with no problems. I'm going to runa 200 shot, wet, why not?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">His is a two-stage wet/dry setup.
It comes in stages hence the name. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
No problems huh? Funny I heard different.
200 shot huh?
Should I plan your shop appointment for bottom-end replacement?
<img border="0" alt="[jester]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_jest.gif" />
How about working out the details on the cam/converter setup first Remulade.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
12-03-2002, 02:33 AM
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Re: 200shot? Why not? LS1 turbo does it.... Actually, the guy you are talking about is on a 225-235 shot. And yes, he does have a dry/wet set up, but when he runs his "good" times it is the whole 225-235 shot out of the hole. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />
I guess a TNT 200 shot would be out of the question then? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
<small>[ December 03, 2002, 02:34 AM: Message edited by: TransAm2002 ]</small>
I guess a TNT 200 shot would be out of the question then? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
<small>[ December 03, 2002, 02:34 AM: Message edited by: TransAm2002 ]</small>
